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Author Topic: Joel's LS1 FC parts list/swap thread (remixed)  (Read 478673 times)

Offline frijolee

Re: Joel's LS1 FC parts list/swap thread (remixed)
« Reply #15 on: June 21, 2010, 04:23:56 PM »
Upgraded Rockers
 
Finally a note on rockers.  The only real weakness of the stock rockers is that they sometimes spill their bearings.  A real roller tip rocker may be a hair more efficient but they're also heavier and harder to control.  Plus they won't clear the stock valve covers and I don't want to run spacers for fear of hood clearance difficulties.  My solution was to send my rockers off for the Harland Sharp rebuild.  It's $250 for the service but the pivots are burly.  Contact Nate at nastyperformance.com if you want them sent over. 
 
Here's the result:

 
 
The pivot assembly is actually the same one used in Harland's full-on roller rockers.  You can see a good side shot of the pivot and circ clip above in the pic with feeler gauges.
 
-Joel
LS2 stroker FC, Mandeville big brakes, widebody, etc
Build thread:  http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=1274.0
www.roninspeedworks.com

LargeOrangeFont says: "Joel is right, and I love Joel. But his car sounds like the wrath of God."   ;)

Offline frijolee

Re: Joel's LS1 FC parts list/swap thread (remixed)
« Reply #16 on: June 21, 2010, 04:24:08 PM »
P to V Questions and Weirdness
 So now I'm confused. I installed the Futral F13 cam last night.  This is supposed to a known combination so I?d be good to go. I went ahead and checked piston to valve clearance again as I still had the checker springs installed.

1) the hydraulic lifters behave differently now. Before they definitely dominated the check springs and p to v was pretty easy to check with feeler gauges. Now the lifters have some give and feel noticeably soft. Is it possible for a lifter to kind of "freeze" up? [Ed. note: yes it is... but it's pretty easy to tell when they travel bottoms out at full extension of the lifter so testing is still pretty easy.]

2) I was still able to check p to v it just took a little more effort to be sure the lifters were extended all the way. Results: 0.065 on intake, 0.130 exhaust. So I have lots of extra clearance on the exhaust side but fail the intake... My first guess was that I might be a tooth off on the timing chain but I've checked the dot alignment a dozen times from various angles and I'm convinced that's right. I could move to an adjustable timing set and thereby dial the exhaust closer and intake further away, I'm just getting really tired of screwing with this and finding work arounds to get it done.
LS2 stroker FC, Mandeville big brakes, widebody, etc
Build thread:  http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=1274.0
www.roninspeedworks.com

LargeOrangeFont says: "Joel is right, and I love Joel. But his car sounds like the wrath of God."   ;)

Offline frijolee

Re: Joel's LS1 FC parts list/swap thread (remixed)
« Reply #17 on: June 21, 2010, 04:24:22 PM »
Fast forward a couple of days:
 
Adjustable Timing Chain (P to V solved)
 
I swapped in my Futral F13 cam and was frustrated to note I still didn?t have the piston to valve clearance I wanted to see.  You need 0.080 and 0.100 intake and exhaust.  The F13?s supposed to be 0.080 and 0.110 as per the folks at Futral and I was seeing 0.065 and 0.130.  It?s just like the timing was not where it was supposed to be.  The final answer was to pick up an adjustable timing set.  The kit I'm using is comp cams single roller part number 3513KT.  The crankshaft pulley has three keyways that are basically -4, 0, and plus 4 degrees.  The cam pulley has an eccentric pin you can advance or retard another 2 degrees.  This means you get a total allowance of +/-6 degrees that's infinitely adjustable.  A word to the wise: don't try this job without a healthy assortment of pullers or you'll never get the stock one off.   
 

Reinstall is easier as I just doubled up the pulleys (see above) and used the harmonic balancer pulley bolt to drive it home.  The engine was one again restrained from turning over using my trusty piece of angle iron.
 

With the camshaft retarded by ~1.75 degrees I measured 0.082 and 0.109.  Being accurate within a thou or two felt pretty dang good.  CAMSHAFT MADNESS SOLVED!
 
 
Soooo... the motors all buttoned up except for pushrods and valve covers (I changed heads and the different in bolt pattern on the 98s bit me.  I knew the coils bolted directly to the covers but not that the cover pattern itself was different.)  I just got the covers, my pushrods seem to be lost in transit.  I can do that after the fact so I?m ready to drop in the motor.
LS2 stroker FC, Mandeville big brakes, widebody, etc
Build thread:  http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=1274.0
www.roninspeedworks.com

LargeOrangeFont says: "Joel is right, and I love Joel. But his car sounds like the wrath of God."   ;)

Offline frijolee

Re: Joel's LS1 FC parts list/swap thread (remixed)
« Reply #18 on: June 21, 2010, 04:24:44 PM »
Chassis prep begins:
 
4-piston brake swap:
 
Simple and clean.  That's kinda been the goal for my swap.  Do the basic stuff to address the known weaknesses of both chassis and engine.  That way you end up with something strong but dead-nuts reliable.
 
I?m starting with a GTU so my car originally came with the single piston front brakes and solid disk rears, albeit in 5 lug.  I bought a rolling chassis for parts that had the 4 piston upgrades front and a complete T2 S4 rear.   Not that when folks refer to 4-piston brakes they came on a variety of cars and this means changing calipers up front (rotors are identical) and both rotors and calipers in back (rotors are vented).
 
Since everything was apart I decided to do a bit of cleanup work and paint the new calipers.  It looks like the most hardcore paint you can buy short of powder coating is by a company called G2.  They sell enamels in multiple colors that come with a lifetime warrantee not to chip.  It's a kit the even comes with the brake cleaner.  You mix the two parts and it goes on thick and comes out glossy.  Pretty happy so far.  Black looks nice but it's not too loud.
 

 

 
LS2 stroker FC, Mandeville big brakes, widebody, etc
Build thread:  http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=1274.0
www.roninspeedworks.com

LargeOrangeFont says: "Joel is right, and I love Joel. But his car sounds like the wrath of God."   ;)

Offline frijolee

Re: Joel's LS1 FC parts list/swap thread (remixed)
« Reply #19 on: June 21, 2010, 04:25:02 PM »
T2 Diff /Rear End Assembly
 
Next up was installing the T2 rear. 
 
[ED Note for those going shopping, while either s4 or s5 T2 rears will work, the s5 is a viscous type diff and tends to be a bit finicky to keep working right.  The s4 is a clutch type and is really the diff of choice.  Both s4 and s5 use 8? ring gears instead of 7? N/A diffs.  The GTUS model used a 7? LSD but it won?t hold the power like the T2 units so don?t be misled. 
 
Finally be warned that there a couple varieties of stub axles.
 

 
 
The half shafts for the 87 models are slightly shorter but the 88-91 half shafts are all the same.  It?s best to get a whole assembly together to make sure it works right.  At one point I was force to run the longer 87 stub axle with a longer 88+ half shaft so I can confirm that worked but it was really hard to get compressed enough to clear the studs on the stub axles during install so I don?t recommend it]
 
This job's mostly a pain because it's hard to get the back end of the car high enough up in the air to get the assembly under there.  Steve (Brismo7) and I ended up dragging the new rear under the car whole but we didn?t have clearance to set it on the jack first.  We set up wood blocks to keep from destroying the dust shields on each brake disc and just brute forced it into rough position.  Then a big crowbar was just the trick to progressively block it higher and higher until we could get the jack underneath it.  The hot tip for rear end installs is to spread the load front to back by balancing both the subframe and diff on a piece of 2x8 or other board.  Once it?s balanced it drives home easy.
 
LS2 stroker FC, Mandeville big brakes, widebody, etc
Build thread:  http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=1274.0
www.roninspeedworks.com

LargeOrangeFont says: "Joel is right, and I love Joel. But his car sounds like the wrath of God."   ;)

Offline frijolee

Re: Joel's LS1 FC parts list/swap thread (remixed)
« Reply #20 on: June 21, 2010, 04:25:15 PM »
Fuel Pump Upgrade
 
 While I had the other subframe out I went ahead and swapped in my Wahlbro fuel pump.   This assembly came whole with a parts car I picked up so I?ve never had to mess with it.  Someday I might try to make this thread truly comprehensive with instructions on how I did but for now I?ll leave this topic to the search function (you can probably find info at the club as well).
 

 
 
I?m using the stock 5/16 hardline toward the front of the car.  I know the LS1s came with 3/8 line but with the fuel pressure regulator (Vette filter/FPR) in the engine bay I figure any pressure drop in the lines won?t matter as long as I get the flow needed.  I bought a wideband 02 sensor so I should be able to check myself.  [Ed note:  I?ve run 462 rwhp through this 5/16 line with no sign of pressure drop to date, the factory hardline is the way to go for most N/A applications if you ask me.  However, if you?re into a big displacement motor you?ll want to double check.]
LS2 stroker FC, Mandeville big brakes, widebody, etc
Build thread:  http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=1274.0
www.roninspeedworks.com

LargeOrangeFont says: "Joel is right, and I love Joel. But his car sounds like the wrath of God."   ;)

Offline frijolee

Re: Joel's LS1 FC parts list/swap thread (remixed)
« Reply #21 on: June 21, 2010, 04:25:31 PM »
Vette A/C vs. Grannies? Mount Conflict
 
I installed all accessories and would have dropped it in the car for the first time except I ran into a problem with the Vette A/C compressor location vs. Granny?s mounts.  (I don?t believe any other combo would have issues).   Because all the Vette accessories are located about 1? further aft than the basic F-body/GTO stuff the compressor interferes with Grannies mounts.  If the same size compressor was 1? further forward I?d be fine but for now I need an extra 5/8? inch that I don?t have.
 

 

 

 

 
 
My final answer:  No A/C for the time being.  I'll leave space for the condenser in front of my radiator and solve this in a couple years.  In a way I'm kind of relieved because that?s a few less custom hoses to worry about and with school back in session I need to get this bad boy on the road post haste.  Still hoping to have it done for Steaks and Beer.  It?s gonna be a good push to get her there.  If I show up un-tuned with open headers and ear plugs at least I'll have made it there?  Heck, if anyone wants to bring their laptop and HP Tuners maybe we?ll get it dialed in on with a street tune.
 
Motor goes in the car tomorrow night!
 

 
 
I've got everything trimmed and fitted to the JTR radiator but I'm waiting to report on that until I have a motor in place to compare the spacing to.  First impression: it kicks ass. :yeah:
 
Joel
LS2 stroker FC, Mandeville big brakes, widebody, etc
Build thread:  http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=1274.0
www.roninspeedworks.com

LargeOrangeFont says: "Joel is right, and I love Joel. But his car sounds like the wrath of God."   ;)

Offline frijolee

Re: Joel's LS1 FC parts list/swap thread (remixed)
« Reply #22 on: June 21, 2010, 04:26:33 PM »
Header Clearancing & Trans Tunnel Modifications

I?m jumping out of sequence here again and mentioning a few things that you could do before the motor goes in.  I talk about some of this below but I thought a few pictures might help.
 
The two spots that you?ll likely need to do some clearancing are for the headers at the two corners where the firewall transitions into the transmission tunnel and removal of the two former trans mounts inside the tunnel.
 
Unfortunately it?s really hard to get exact pictures and measurements of where you need to clearance for headers.   Here?s my best try for the passenger side (driver?s side is similar).
 

 
 
At some point the easiest thing to do is to throw the engine in the car in a close approximation of where it?s going to live and try to fit up your headers.  I choose to run JTR 1 3/4 headers based on the results of others.  Factory manifolds work fine but you may have clearancing issues as well due to the location of the three bolt flanges.
 
In regards to the trans tunnel mounts, I suggest you take them all the way off using a spot weld cutter.  There are 26 total spot welds on each of these damn things but it?s the only way to get them out clean.  Note that the three spot welds marked with X's I never could find from the outside but managed to break because the penetration wasn't great.  Probably why I couldn't see/feel them.
 

 
 
No sign of visible rust anywhere on the car but it turns out there's still a wee bit of cancer between layers, presumably where the spot welds burned the paint.  I can only imagine what you poor east coasters have to deal with when you add salted roads into the mix.  This will of course be ground out and painted. 
 
The above is a tough job (probably why I didn?t finish it in the first pass) but the results are worth it.  I?d like to think this is the kind of thing that really sets apart a quality build.  We now return to 2006.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2010, 05:09:22 AM by frijolee »
LS2 stroker FC, Mandeville big brakes, widebody, etc
Build thread:  http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=1274.0
www.roninspeedworks.com

LargeOrangeFont says: "Joel is right, and I love Joel. But his car sounds like the wrath of God."   ;)

Offline frijolee

Re: Joel's LS1 FC parts list/swap thread (remixed)
« Reply #23 on: June 21, 2010, 04:27:02 PM »
Exhaust Gasket Porting
 
If you're running 1 3/4 primaries on a set of headers you might want to look into exhaust gasket porting.   Note: 1 3/4 seems to be the best all around header for 5.7L applications and smaller but some folks running strokers, FI, or nitrous might see more power with 1 7/8 in which case you'd want definitely want to do this.
 
The only real trick to it was to clamp the gasket between two layers of wood so that I wouldn?t rip it up with the hole saw?s teeth.  It looks like I definitely dropped some restriction doing this.
 

 

 

 

 

 
 
I?m pretty happy with the end result.
LS2 stroker FC, Mandeville big brakes, widebody, etc
Build thread:  http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=1274.0
www.roninspeedworks.com

LargeOrangeFont says: "Joel is right, and I love Joel. But his car sounds like the wrath of God."   ;)

Offline frijolee

Re: Joel's LS1 FC parts list/swap thread (remixed)
« Reply #24 on: June 21, 2010, 04:27:27 PM »
Motor Install!
 

-Motor and Trans dropping in.  Danzan likes my engine.
 
 

-Everyone needs a picture like this at some point.  The load leveler is once again key. I installed this with the intake and valley cover removed using the valley cover bolt holes front and rear.
 
 

-Best way to get the engine aligned to the cradle: It's IMPORTANT to do a dry fit out of the car to be sure the width is right (some of these can be a bit warped).  On Brismo's car we had to drive each side of the cradle in by about 1/4" with a scissor jack.  Then you use the same scissor jack to shove the engine to the rear.  A mechanics jack under the tail of the transmission is useful for getting the side to side alignment right.
 
-I'm more impressed with Grannies bolt through the floor tranny brace design after closer inspection than when I first looked at it.  The plates up top are just long enough that they capture the two undercar channels (I want to call them frame rails but they're really not) thereby adding strength.  It's going to be hard to get the exhaust up and over this guy but I think it's do able.
 
-Driveshaft was the perfect length (c4 vette shaft, with the longer slip yoke and mazda rear flange both, everything is referenced in my parts list up top.)
 

-I cut down the stock camaro shift boot and sandwiched it in place using the oem FC frame.  Should help with transmission tunnel heat and the shifter landed so nice in the hole that I had to try it.
 
 

-Pushrods and rockers are in.  Valve covers next.
 
 
-If you haven't done so already you're about to figure out where you need to clearance stuff to make this fit.  I can confirm you need to cut off the driver?s side Mazda tranny mount (bulge on side of tunnel) I ground mine as flat as I could, sealed the gaps with hot glue [Ed note: I didn't realize how high the exhaust would have to run so epoxy or caulk might have been a better choice.  Nothing's melted yet, but I thought I'd mention it] so it won't "drink water" and painted it with undercoating.  I left the other Mazda trans mount in place.  Trimming off one bulge only will only work if you running Grannies mounts on the rear hole.  Any other combo and they both need to be removed.
 
-I had to yank the engine out one more time after test fitting the JTR headers.  If you run Hinson mounts or Grannies on the front cradle holes you'll probably get away with less.  Mine needed significant clearancing on both sides.   One warning: don't get too aggressive with your firewall modding or you'll start messing with the area under the gas pedal.
 

Here's the final version with the headers installed.  Passenger side is a tad closer than the drivers. Headers go in easy from the bottom (assuming you have the car pretty high on the jack stands) but it does help if you put the starter in afterward.
 
 

-Starting to peel back all the shrink wrap.  If you look closely you can see where I trimmed the lip on the firewall for intake manifold clearance.  I also had to dent in the center slightly where the nipple for the map sensor sticks out.
 
 

-Manifold fits nice
 
-Using the rear holes on Grannies mount leaves me ~5/8" in clearance to the firewall on the passenger side head and the shifter fits PERFECTLY in the stock location (no trimming required).  If you ask me this is the biggest advantage of Grannies mounts over other offerings.
LS2 stroker FC, Mandeville big brakes, widebody, etc
Build thread:  http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=1274.0
www.roninspeedworks.com

LargeOrangeFont says: "Joel is right, and I love Joel. But his car sounds like the wrath of God."   ;)

Offline frijolee

Re: Joel's LS1 FC parts list/swap thread (remixed)
« Reply #25 on: June 21, 2010, 04:27:44 PM »
Powersteering
 
-Powersteering is all plumbed.  For anyone in SoCal check out Orme Brothers in Northridge CA.  Amazing shop and high quality work.  I basically had new fittings braised on Chevy high pressure fitting at the pump and at the banjo for the Mazda rack.  I took these pics about six months after the fact so excuse the fact they're dirty, this should give you a better idea of the braising work.
 

Bottom side of the pump
 
 

At the steering rack.
 
 
The low pressure return just uses barb fittings on each end so that was easy.  I plumbed it in using the factory Mazda power steering coolant loop.
 
 
Still to do:
 
-Wire it (harness already modded)
-Mount radiator permanently
-Fuel system (have supplies)
-Need adaptor fitting for clutch line (mine is custom so this might be different for you)
 
Unfortunately I'm waiting on the fittings for the oil pressure sender so I don't have the intake manifold permanently installed yet. That plus the fact that grad school is starting to hit hard (on the side of full time work).  At this point I only give myself 40% odds of having it done for steaks and beer. :cry:
 
Questions:
 
-What/where is the steam vent?  I've seen it alluded to as a "run hose so you can burp it and then cap the line" but not where it is.  [Ed note: this is the same thing as the cross over tubes that run just above the valley cover.  It needs to plumb into the upper radiator hose...  See a bit further down in the thread for more info]
LS2 stroker FC, Mandeville big brakes, widebody, etc
Build thread:  http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=1274.0
www.roninspeedworks.com

LargeOrangeFont says: "Joel is right, and I love Joel. But his car sounds like the wrath of God."   ;)

Offline frijolee

Re: Joel's LS1 FC parts list/swap thread (remixed)
« Reply #26 on: June 21, 2010, 04:28:01 PM »
Clutch Hydraulics
 
 
Also at some point along this timeframe I completed my clutch plumbing.
 
 

I built a bracket to reorient the master cylinder vertically (heavy black UHMW plastic and a couple hole saws worked well).  I think Hinson sells these now so for some small change you can avoid the hassle.
 
 

Hardline runs along beneath the brake booster.  I'll go back and weed out all the spare connectors at some point but I wasn't hacking into the harness more than I needed to until I had a running car to help me diagnose what was what.
 
 

The adaptor bushing that goes from brake line fitting to -AN for the braided SS I used to jump to the transmission was a HUGE PITA to find.  I literally bought probably a dozen fittings from 4 stores before I found the right one from Orme Brothers.  However in the end I was stoked that I could reuse my stock clips and bracket just relocated down by the stock fuel filter location.
 
On the trans side I have another fitting braised in place.
 
 
Progess pic to date:

 
Unfortunately grad school hitting hard means this will be as far as I get before Seven Not Stock Steaks and Beer...  I realized I wasn't going to make it and decided it was stupid to keep burning vacation and killing myself.  I was having flashbacks to JJ's (aka drivinggodspeed's) "Diary of a Madman" thread.
 
Besides, it might not be such a great idea to head on a road trip (even a short one across LA) until I've confirmed that it won't overheat and that the tuning is close.  What makes me think the temptation would be there to put my foot into it sooner than I really should?  :D
LS2 stroker FC, Mandeville big brakes, widebody, etc
Build thread:  http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=1274.0
www.roninspeedworks.com

LargeOrangeFont says: "Joel is right, and I love Joel. But his car sounds like the wrath of God."   ;)

Offline frijolee

Re: Joel's LS1 FC parts list/swap thread (remixed)
« Reply #27 on: June 21, 2010, 04:28:13 PM »
Shifter Boot /Sealing Heat
 
If you have the option, grab the original rubber shifter boot from the F-body (not the leather part, the accordion rubber piece that?s below this).  With a little trimming it fits well with the Mazda metal surround.  This should help minimize the heat coming through the trans tunnel.
 

 
LS2 stroker FC, Mandeville big brakes, widebody, etc
Build thread:  http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=1274.0
www.roninspeedworks.com

LargeOrangeFont says: "Joel is right, and I love Joel. But his car sounds like the wrath of God."   ;)

Offline frijolee

Re: Joel's LS1 FC parts list/swap thread (remixed)
« Reply #28 on: June 21, 2010, 04:28:40 PM »
Radiator Setup / Volvo s80 fan
 
I got my hands on one of JTRs early prototype radiator kits based on an aftermarket c4 vette radiator.  Note the black parts that mount to tow hooks are aluminum in the JTRs current version.  Install sequence goes like this:
 

Lower support (think through hole locations carefully for future maintenance as you wont be able to get to some of these.)
 
 

I added the horizontal studs in the uprights to allow fan mounting.
 
 

 
 

Trimming the fan shroud.
 
 

 
 

 
 

You can see where I put my hardware for better access.
 
 
The fan is from the Volvo s80 but it?s the same one used with the XC90 and several other Volvos.  I started off running two OEM relays in parallel to share load but ended up smoking a few wires.  Instead I switched to a DC Control FK-35 control box.   I believe DC Control?s base model is now the FK-50.
 
I'm finally happy with my fuse setup for the fan.  See more on that here.
LS2 stroker FC, Mandeville big brakes, widebody, etc
Build thread:  http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=1274.0
www.roninspeedworks.com

LargeOrangeFont says: "Joel is right, and I love Joel. But his car sounds like the wrath of God."   ;)

Offline frijolee

Re: Joel's LS1 FC parts list/swap thread (remixed)
« Reply #29 on: June 21, 2010, 04:29:02 PM »
First Pass a Fuel System
 
I just about finished my fuel system [Ed note, this ended up being a first pass at a fuel system as I changed it up having thought about it for a while].  Thanks to DanWRX for letting me stare at his car for a while at SNS west.  The 98 vette "return style" rails are quite a bit different.  I do like the simplicity in the run though.  The FPR is part of the rails so the vette combo filter/FPR is not required (FYI that?s the easy setup for those with returnless rails).  You do get to run a vacuum line from the FPR at the rail to manifold pressure instead of referencing the FPR off of atmosphere.  I used the spare nipple back by the map sensor to run this.  I also remounted the stock fuel filter holder up on the shock tower via a bit of resizing holes and used a random fram fuel filter (G7333) with the proper 3/8 quick connects. 
 

[Ed. note:  I've decided I wanted the real estate here on the shock tower so I bought a new rx7 filter, mounted it in the OEM location (albeit tweaking inward as close to the frame rail as possible) and covered it in heat shielding because it's right by the header collector.]
 
 
And here's how I left it after a weekend of good wrenching:
 

 
It's actually starting to look like a motor in there.  The biggest thing left is wiring and I've walked myself through that a couple of times so it's really just chasing the wires.  I think I'm still on track to fire it up next weekend.
 
Joel
LS2 stroker FC, Mandeville big brakes, widebody, etc
Build thread:  http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=1274.0
www.roninspeedworks.com

LargeOrangeFont says: "Joel is right, and I love Joel. But his car sounds like the wrath of God."   ;)