Brake Rotor Types for Time Trials/General Track Use

[DeathMetalKillsEmos]

Alright futhermuckers,

I am looking at upgrading the brakes on my car for the track. I was initially going to try and use the stock system and see how it went, but I would need to buy new rotors and a new front left caliper, so I figure I may as well just buy an upgraded system and be done with it. From what I have read the stock size brakes may have trouble dissipating heat. I plan on doing some math some time soon to try and figure out about how much brake I will need for my application, but haven't gotten around to it yet. But, anyways, this question is a bit more general. I want to get the opinions of some of the people who do some regular track day stuff on here about brake discs.

So, this is how I am thinking about brake rotors.

1.) Drilled Rotors: Seems like most people in the "tuner" community seem to think that these are a huge performance upgrade for some reason (other than that they look "mad-tyte"). I can see why these might dissipate heat slightly better, but the real advantage I can see would be weight reduction. But, the obvious cracking issues associated with drilled rotors (and the increased abrasiveness on your pads) make them a total non-option for me. Unless someone else on here has some REALLY convincing evidence as to why these things are mega-orgasmic-hyper-tits-awesome, I am just going to go ahead and forget about them.

2) Slotted Rotors: These rotors also look "mad-tyte," but the idea behind them is that the channels can evacuate gas/water from the surface of the rotor. From what I have read, most modern pad compounds don't really gas too much, making the slots more or less pointless for that function. I don't really plan on running my car in the wet (at least not yet), and I don't see why the hell water wouldn't immediately evaporate upon contacting my 800 F rotors..? Due to the edges on the rotor, the slotted rotors are also supposed to wear on the pads a bit faster than blanks. Anybody have strong opinions on these, or better yet some back-to-back comparison type experience compared to blanks? Do blanks really tend to gas that bad?

3) Blanks: These should offer maximum contact area between pad and rotor, and therefore maximum friction under optimal conditions. The fear here would be gassing, but I await the opinions of the track monsters on the forum here.

4) Two-Piece with Cooling Channel in Center: Okay, this I can actually see the benefit of. The cooling channel between the two sides of the disc should allow air to be drawn in (to the center and then accelerated radially outward from what I understand). Are these worth it? I use them on my Evo. I assume the advantage is real. I suppose someone may be able to get by with a thicker single-piece rotor (the extra thickness providing some extra thermal mass to slow down rotor heating, and then keep the brakes warmer between sessions). I am fairly convinced that this is a good idea, but any contrary opinions welcome.

I am currently using two piece (cooling channel down the middle) rotors on my Evo that have been cryo-treated to reduce stress concentrations resulting from heat cycling. I have driven them through plenty of autocrosses and a track day or two (20-30 minute sessions). Come to think of it, I haven't actually checked the rotors since my last track day. I will have to do that and get back to you guys. But anyhow, frozen rotors has some info on their website about the purpose of the cryo-treatment along with some testing that they have done to demonstrate the advantages of the treatment. My blank rotors and Hawk HP+'s have served me well. For my race setup on the RX7, I was planning on going with the cryo blanks and race pads. My question here I suppose is, are slotted rotors worth it at all? And, do the two-piece cooled rotors make a significant difference (again, on this point I am convinced that they probably do)?

[largeorangefont]

For the sake of discussion and clarity, we would call your rotor type number 4 vented one piece Rotors. It sounds like you have 1 piece vented rotors on your Evo.

The 5th type of rotor is a 2 piece rotor. A 2 piece rotor is actually 2 pieces, a hat and the rotor ring, bolted together. The rotor ring can be fixed, or floating on pins to reduce brake pad knockback under hard use.

This is a 1 piece vented rotor


This is a 2 piece rotor with a vented ring


The long and the short of it is this - If you are buying 1 piece vented rotors, do not waste your money on slotted, drilled or cryo'ed rotors. Buy the best quality blanks you can get. You want to be looking at a Centric Premium, Centric High Carbon (best in my opinion, but not available in stock FC rotors), Raybestos Professional, AC Delco Professional etc. Do not by the "economy" blanks. They can't take as much heat and will begin to warp or crack sooner.

If you are talking about an FC, then yes you will want the GXL/Turbo 4 pot front and vented rear brakes no matter what. That is a far superior setup to the base brakes. Get good quality blanks, fresh calipers, SS brake lines, the pads you want and go on your way. This will probably serve 75% of people that track their cars very well. I will say this, get brake pads that somewhat match the performance profile of your tires. If you are putting race tires on the car, get race pads. If you are putting aggressive summer tires on the car, get an aggressive street or entry level race pad.

With 200 treadwear or less tires you COULD get to a point where you will begin to cook the Turbo 4 pot brake setup. For me I was on 100 treadwear tires, and was bending the caliper, and cracking the vented 1 piece rotors. From there you will need a bigger rotor to take more heat. You can go full custom rotors, calipers, etc at that point, but the simplest option is the Ronin front BBK. It uses a larger 350z rotor that can take a ton more heat. It uses a widened turbo 4 pot caliper. I have been running race tires and race pads on mine and after 18 months (I am no my 4th set of front brake pads) I am finally going to change the rotors because they are starting to crack. The caliper no longer bends because it is not subjected to such temperature extremes. This is all without brake cooling ducts. When I put on front brake cooling ducts the rotors will probably last 5 years. I run Centric High Carbon 350z rotors, they are $55 each. Again they are 1 piece vented blank rotors.

Beyond that you can go to a 2 piece rotor. These are a few lbs lighter than a 1 piece vented rotor, much more expensive (think $350-$600+ for a pair), and typically very durable. They wont put as much heat into the hubs, and if you have pad knock back, a 2 piece floating rotor is one way to help address that.

I hope this helps.

[AKINA FC]

Ash pretty well covered it I think. If its still a street car, the Ronin style kit is the way to go. You can just run good blanks and some decent tack pads and be set for quite a while, It takes quite a bit to overwhelm that setup. I ran centrics and carbotech xp12's for a long time and highly recommend it but your gonna need a good r comp tire to use them right. Street tires the bobcat or a hawk hp plus pads will do well for hpde.

[largeorangefont]

Agreed. The Carbotech Bobcat (1521 compound) and HP+ are both great dual purpose pads. I run Bobcats on my CTSV.

I will say for a race pad, the Hawk DTC 60 is not bad at all on the street. It is quiet and the dust level is not offensive.

[DeathMetalKillsEmos]

Good to know about the differences in the rotors! Yes, you are correct Orange, I am indeed running ONE piece rotors on the Evo, not two-piece. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

I am building an FD (should have mentioned, sry). I could potentially drive it on the street from time to time if I go that route, but right now I am thinking that I will most likely just keep it a track-dedicated car. When you say you are using the "turbo 4-pot caliper," are you talking about the calipers that came stock on the turbo-engine FC? Would those cals with the 350z rotors setup work for an FD at all, or am I going to be looking at a whole different set of options?

Probably a good call on not wasting the money on Cryo's. In the end, whatever extra longevity I get out of those are probably not worth the cost difference, if I had to guess.

[spacevomit]

FC Turbo and FD calipers are functionally identical.

[largeorangefont]

Good to know about the differences in the rotors! Yes, you are correct Orange, I am indeed running ONE piece rotors on the Evo, not two-piece. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

I am building an FD (should have mentioned, sry). I could potentially drive it on the street from time to time if I go that route, but right now I am thinking that I will most likely just keep it a track-dedicated car. When you say you are using the "turbo 4-pot caliper," are you talking about the calipers that came stock on the turbo-engine FC? Would those cals with the 350z rotors setup work for an FD at all, or am I going to be looking at a whole different set of options?

Probably a good call on not wasting the money on Cryo's. In the end, whatever extra longevity I get out of those are probably not worth the cost difference, if I had to guess.

If you are running an FD, keep the system stock. Put on front brake cooling dusts, good blank rotors, good pads and SS lines. It should be good to go for awhile. The FD uses larger rotors than the FC. The FC 4 pot and FD calipers are basically the same as noted.

[radiomike]

For the FD you can use the larger stock brakes all round from the RS/RZ models but as you are almost starting from scratch I would go straight for the excellent Stoptech kit which we use on ours with Carbotech XP8 pads.  Having 100% confidence in your braking system is one of the best ways to improve track times.

[DeathMetalKillsEmos]

Good input all, I will have to take a look at it and make a decision. I definitely plan on running cooling ducts of some sort. Thanks everyone for chiming in. Hope to see you all out there next year. I live in OH, so I will be running the several tracks around here.

[DeathMetalKillsEmos]

Dear perverts,

I am likely going to be going with stock brakes (at least for now) for my RX7. My question is, is there any difference between the "OEM" parts, and re-manufactured parts? Don't the remanufactured parts basically use the core (in this case the caliper housing), and just replace all the seals, etc..? I can get a remanufactured brake caliper for my RX7 from freakin' O'Reilly for like $54, but I have seen some other sights selling rebuilt calipers for like $150 a pop! The hell is going on here? Just a marketing scam? I don't get why it would be any different? It's not like a brake caliper is anything fancy from a design standpoint, so what the hell? Anybody have any strong opinions, or even better, actual knowledge about this? I always see people on the interwebs talking about how "high quality" OEM parts are, when the reality is that many of the OEM parts are manufactured by the EXACT same companies that supply replacement parts. Anyways, any difference between re-manufactured and OEM brake calipers?

[Mik3ymomo]

Buy the calipers in pairs and from what I've seen the remanufactured stuff is OEM cores so you are correct in your assumption. You can always pop a box of them open at your local auto parts store. The OEM say Mazda on them of course and are made by Sumitomo.

[largeorangefont]

They are all the same Mazda cores, and just rebuilt. I try to buy from a "name brand" like Raybestos, Centric, Cardone, etc. If they have a upgraded "professional" line of reman caliper, I would spring for that.

I got my TurboII front calipers for about than $90 shipped to my door via Amazon. They were Raybestos brand remans.

The left and right unloaded calipers are Raybestos part number FRC3841 & FRC3842. They come with new pins and springs.