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Author Topic: ~ Introduction! General questions/comments here please ~  (Read 11510 times)

Offline Jordan Innovations

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~ Introduction! General questions/comments here please ~
« on: January 11, 2012, 12:29:18 AM »
I've been around this forum for a while and decided that I should post up some of our offerings for you guys.  I know this is a small community and won't make/break the bank either way, so we want to give the NoRotors community the best pricing we can.

A little about us... My name is Jeff Jordan, I was a Computer Science major at UC Irvine before I joined the Navy as an Aircraft Electronics Tech working on F-14/F-18 electronic countermeasures.  Had a decent time, came home and started doing wiring for engine swaps in my spare time.  Did a few brand new harnesses and rewired a couple whole cars using Mil-spec wire/loom/techniques, and people started paying real money for it.

Fast forward to 2008 and I opened Jordan Innovations to specialize in Mil-spec wiring and race electronics, and did a few professional race cars in 2009, a bunch in 2010, and even more in 2011.  In June of 2011, we moved into our new super-classy shop on Irwindale Ave in Irwindale, a few miles from the Irwindale Speedway since people didn't like bringing $300k+ cars to the equivalent of a two-car garage.  Here we're still doing a ton of wiring work, but have added staff and expanded our warehouse and showroom space to offer more parts and begin manufacturing more of our own parts/kits. 

Through our pro racing experience we've developed great relationships with other manufacturers and distributors, so we can get virtually anything at a great price.  That being said, I'm think this community is intelligent enough to understand that internet wholesalers can sometimes undercut honest shops on parts pricing, so I'm not going to try and promote a lowest-price guarantee ~ our customers come to us because we have experience installing/using/racing with the parts we sell, and that experience is worth it.

We do everything from selling tires or individual electronic parts for the DIY'er to full SCCA/NASA/Formula D builds, and plan on offering a variety of parts and a few services on the forum here.  If you guys see me post about something or want to ask about something you don't see, feel free to check our our (new/under construction) website
www.jordaninnovations.com or email me at jeff@jordaninnovations.com
There's a blog on the site we'll try to keep updated, but for those of us on Facebook, we regularly post interesting stuff at https://www.facebook.com/pages/Jordan-Innovations/195618960481650 (biz page) and www.facebook.com/jordaninnovations.

Some things I've been asked about on here and am planning to post up:
  • AIM digital dashes/race loggers
  • Racelogic Traction Control and data logging
  • Mil-spec LSx engine harnesses, with/without bulkhead connectors
  • Mil-spec FC and FD custom chassis harnesses ~ complete replacement for your chassis wiring, spec'd and built custom for you
  • FC and FD bolt-in fuel surge tanks (in development now)
  • FC and FD suspension parts - coilovers, arms, etc
  • FC and FD body kits/fenders/hoods - Quality stuff like Dmax, etc
  • Awesome wheels with good fitment, as well as some tires


If you guys have general questions or comments feel free to post them up!  I know we've sold parts to a few of you and had a few swapped FD's come by the shop for little things, I'd love to hear from you guys.

Offline BlackLSFD

Re: ~ Introduction! General questions/comments here please ~
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2012, 05:18:29 PM »
Jeff's a great guy and is currently building a full custom harness for me. He's been great to work with and I'm really looking forward to getting the harness!

Here's to good a good vendor!  :cheers:

Offline WannaBeFast

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Re: ~ Introduction! General questions/comments here please ~
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2012, 05:47:53 PM »
Jeff can i ask you a question? Ok....can i ask you another question?


:)



I have purchased an 18 circuit Southern Rod harness, and I am maybe a month of work away to install it. Yet the harness is not very FC friendly per say. I am willing to spend some money because it's worth it, and let you modify it and equip it with weather plugs etc, and most importantly match the FC wiring (sort of plug and play).

Note: The FC harness is completely removed. Only the ends to specif parts are left such as the lights, window motors, wipers, etc.

There is going to be only basic functions in the car, nothing extreme like AC, computers, or whatnot. Only basics. I can provide a detail list. I am not in a rush.. You can even experiment with it.

I know there is a few people here that want to replace their harness and have been looking at options such as Painless, Southern Rods, etc; therefore, if it's worth it to you, I am very interested in doing this. Maybe it will motivate others as well.

 Looking forward to your response.

Offline Sabre002

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Re: ~ Introduction! General questions/comments here please ~
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2012, 06:24:56 PM »
Good to know I will keep this all in mind.

Josh
Technical Development, Mazda Motorsports
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Stuntmonkey

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Re: ~ Introduction! General questions/comments here please ~
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2012, 02:22:09 AM »
How much are you charging for a plug and play LS1 harness for an FD?

Offline Jordan Innovations

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Re: ~ Introduction! General questions/comments here please ~
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2012, 06:22:09 AM »
I have purchased an 18 circuit Southern Rod harness, and I am maybe a month of work away to install it. Yet the harness is not very FC friendly per say. I am willing to spend some money because it's worth it, and let you modify it and equip it with weather plugs etc, and most importantly match the FC wiring (sort of plug and play).

Note: The FC harness is completely removed. Only the ends to specif parts are left such as the lights, window motors, wipers, etc.

There is going to be only basic functions in the car, nothing extreme like AC, computers, or whatnot. Only basics. I can provide a detail list. I am not in a rush.. You can even experiment with it.

I know there is a few people here that want to replace their harness and have been looking at options such as Painless, Southern Rods, etc; therefore, if it's worth it to you, I am very interested in doing this. Maybe it will motivate others as well.

 Looking forward to your response.

Great question, and I have a somewhat long-winded response that I've given literally hundreds of times, whenever this comes up.  I started installing Painless-style harnesses in 2006... they seem attractive ~ they're cheap and the manufacturers want you to think they're plug-and-play.  I was making engine harnesses and figured people need help doing this, and it's better than the factory stuff most of the time.

They're not.  Far from it.  If you wire it in yourself, you hit a price/performance point akin to buying a used Kia... sure, it's cheap, but what you really have is a cheap plastic fusebox, not nearly enough relays to run a modern car/engine safely, no switching (still using OEM, 20yo switches), and no help if something goes wrong.  The fuseboxes look and fit like crap inside the car.  If you pay someone like me to do it, you're literally paying for a polished turd... I can loom it and make a great looking installation, but it's still literally the cheapest fusebox and wire money can buy, with a non-intelligent circuit design.

Three or four years ago, I started making complete replacement chassis harnesses, custom, taking control of the specification, design, manufacture, installation and support of the electrical system.  My idea was to use the highest quality, aviation/military-grade parts around, with the most intelligent circuit designs for the particular application, and then manufacture a harness that not only looked like a million bucks, but would perform reliably season-after-season.  This was mostly for race teams, with very specific needs, but I started looking at price/performance points for my most common applications (Nissan 240's, FC's, etc)... turns out:
  • It doesn't actually take any longer to make a custom harness than to properly install a pre-made, Painless-style generic harness
  • The materials I use aren't considerably more expensive than the Painless-style harnesses my customers were coming to me with, if I'm willing to buy them in bulk and stock them
  • The Painless-style generic fuseboxes don't work for modern cars!  I was having to do so much customization and additions to do proper (read: SAFE) power distribution, I realized I'm barely using the supplied stuff
  • I'm able to provide a custom switch panel, high-quality aerospace switches, fully-potted relays, fully sealed Deutsch mid-harness connectors, etc for a very small cost premium, that nets a HUGE reliability (and baller-status) gain
  • At the end of the day... I'm doing my customers a disservice by installing the generic crap at a price point that compensates me for my time... so I refuse to do it

What I do offer is a Mil-spec tucked and loomed chassis harness service.  Similar to a Painless-style, I do need certain plugs from your OEM chassis harness (tail lights, stock dash cluster, etc).  I can wire into the stock switches and a tiny sealed fusebox with our relay block for a truly OEM-looking installation, or I can use push-to-reset circuit breakers and aerospace switches on a custom panel for full control at the driver's fingertips while strapped in.  I use the highest quality 200*C double-wall tefzel wire with your choice of flame-retardant mesh sleeving or full heat shrink Raychem DR25-equiv loom, with 3M double-wall adhesive heat shrink over the ends.  Perhaps best of all, I guarantee all our harnesses for life - if the harness stops performing as it should, send it to me or get me to the car, I'll fix it... this is easy to offer, since it's never happened.

There is a world of options when doing a custom chassis harness, since we're literally starting from scratch.  I've done FC3S race cars, but no street cars (I haven't looked into the best way to keep all the factory creature comforts, for instance).  I'm doing my FD now, and did the FD we took to SEMA a couple years ago, but most FD guys want to keep all the factory niceties, and it's labor intensive for me.  Point is, I need to figure out where the certain options fall in terms of parts and labor for these cars, and I was going to set up a thread specifically for this, but here's the gist of it:

Chassis harnesses start at $1000 + materials, typically with a bottom around $1600.  This typically buys you:
  • Complete replacement chassis harness, starting with the removal of your stock wiring - ALL OF IT.  Nothing will be left in your engine bay except wiring to the engine, lights, and fan(s).  Nothing will be by your feet inside the car.  Nothing runs from the dash back except for a tiny little loom carrying fuel pump, and rear lights
  • Includes a simple switch panel (typically put it in the double-DIN spot) with push-to-reset circuit breakers or a marine fusebox, as well as our custom relay block loaded with fully-potted relays.  We have one of the only relay blocks that's truly modular and mounts to a bulkhead in a way that allows the relays to be removable without touching anything else (the mounting or the wires).
  • If you don't want a switch panel, we can wire in the factory switches to control everything.  Save on materials, looks factory, but you're relying on 20yr old switches (this becomes the weak link of the new electrical system)

I'm sure I'm forgetting stuff.  Look for a new thread soon that will hopefully answer chassis harness questions, show pics of options, and outline pricing.

Offline Jordan Innovations

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Re: ~ Introduction! General questions/comments here please ~
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2012, 06:29:25 AM »
How much are you charging for a plug and play LS1 harness for an FD?

Simple answer:  it depends.  I was going to make a separate thread outlining options with pics/etc soon, when I finalize pricing and determine which options are going to be the most common.  Anything is doable.

If you want a brand new harness made, I'm going to do it with our Mil-spec wire, tucked, and loomed with our Mil-spec flame-retardant loom (or Raychem DR25/equiv heatshrink loom).  I don't have a supply of Mazda OEM plugs, so you'll most likely need to send me your 13B harness, or I can use a Deutsch connector and you'll have to trim out some Mazda wires and crimp pins on.  Pricing for brand new, Mil-spec tucked/loomed harnesses will be approx $900 ready to plug in, with a Mil-spec bulkhead connector available for an additional $350.  These are the same harnesses that Conrad Grunewald, Luke Lonberger, and Matt Powers have on their LSx engines in Formula D/Time Attack, and the same parts/methodology as FXMD's NSX engine harness that we worked on. 

This includes any additional wiring for sensors (gauges), boost control, etc.  We can also put any ECU connector on it we want, so if you want to run a standalone ECU, or upgrade to a newer GM ECU, that can be done at the same time.  This is common with people running the AIM or Racepak dashes, since the newer ECU's support CANbus/etc. 

For a standard LS1 to FD harness conversion, we generally charge $250 + Dakota Digital boxes.  We'll need the LS1 harness as well as a 13B harness for the interior plugs, and if you're going to run the Dakota Digital boxes we need those as well (or you can buy them through us).

Offline digitalsolo

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Re: ~ Introduction! General questions/comments here please ~
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2012, 10:42:10 AM »
Those are very reasonable prices.     Having built custom harnesses from all proper (GXL/TXL) wire, brand new pins, NICE fuseboxes and reusing factory connector plastics, I can say that's some $$$ just in materials.

I'm glad we have more and more options for quality wiring on these swaps.   It really is the detail that makes a car reliable and thus fun to drive.
Blake MF'ing McBride
1988 Mazda RX7 - Turbo LS1/T56/ProEFI/8.8/Not Slow...   sold.
1965 Mustang Coupe - TT Coyote, TR6060, modern brakes/suspension...  project car
2016 BMW 428i xDrive Gran Coupe - Completely stock...ish

Offline WannaBeFast

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Re: ~ Introduction! General questions/comments here please ~
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2012, 03:26:50 PM »
 :bacon:
« Last Edit: January 17, 2012, 10:33:34 PM by WannaBeFast »

Stuntmonkey

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Re: ~ Introduction! General questions/comments here please ~
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2012, 06:40:36 PM »
$900 sounds good considering I don't have a LS1 harness (bought truck motor and getting bored to 5.7 specs). I'm assuming you offer little pigtails etc for where to wire you ignition etc into the pcm?

Have you got some pics of some examples you've done?

Offline Sabre002

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Re: ~ Introduction! General questions/comments here please ~
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2012, 11:32:09 AM »
I"m intrested in having a new GM 2010 camaro harness cleaned up and wrapped like you do the built harness.  I dont need new wires or anything but would like some circiuts removed. 

That or the same thing with my 2001 harness, but I have everythign remove I want I would just like it cleaned up.
Josh
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Offline lane_change

Re: ~ Introduction! General questions/comments here please ~
« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2012, 07:48:51 PM »
Do you have any pictures of your wiring harnesses once completed and installed?  I have some ideas on what I am looking for, just curious to see if it something I should tackle myself since I know how I want it done, or if it would be cost and time efficient to have one built.  I am not familiar with all the jargon, just have the idea on what I am looking for.  So I would be curious to see some pictures of your completed harnesses and relay configuration, mounting, etc...

Offline Jordan Innovations

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Re: ~ Introduction! General questions/comments here please ~
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2012, 09:57:15 PM »
I'll put more comprehensive pics in each thread as I set them up (engine harness vs chassis harness/etc), but here's some stuff that's 'on hand'.  All these chassis harnesses are totally contained in the panel(s), the only thing running through the car are 1/2" bundles carrying headlights/fans/etc to the front and fuel pump/lights/etc to the rear, and have been custom-spec'd for each customer.

Conrad Grunewald's 2010 Camaro LSA then LS7 powered, Formula Drift (top 10). Engine and chassis harnesses, AEM V2 EMS, AIM dash/logger.
(Wires down at passenger corner are pulled down for dash removal, usually they're up top)




Matt Powers' LS7 S13, Formula Drift (top 10).  Engine harness, chassis harness, Holley HP EFI, Stack dash/logger, full DAQ.





Luke Lonberger's S14, FD ProAm 2009 - super simple race setup, rad turbo LS1 car.  Engine harness/chassis harness, CarPC with HPtuners for gauges.


Luke Lonberger's C6, Formula Drift - got a vinyl stencil made for the dash, so when I wired it it was very plain with green tape tags.  Engine harness, chassis harness, stock PCM, AIM dash/logger.


I try to do burnouts with all my race guys' cars when they fire up, passing it off as 'tradition'.   :yay:



KA24DE(T) Upper engine harness with LSx coilpack conversion and Mil-spec bulkhead connector


Street/comp SR20 S14, all stock amenities - breakers and relays in center console, DTM connectors throughout (no OEM mid-harness connections).  PowerFC was lounging on the floor at the time with the Commander wires all over the place.



Street car, SR20 Datsun 510, full stock interior (all my stuff hidden in passenger foot panel), engine harness and chassis harness with bulkheads.  PowerFC and Autometer gauge replacements for all gauges.




Here's a simple panel we're shipping tomorrow for a Lemons car, shows components (cheapy switches, push-to-reset breakers, cheapy push-to-start, custom relay block, fully potted relays).
« Last Edit: January 17, 2012, 10:22:06 PM by Jordan Innovations »

Offline Sabre002

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Re: ~ Introduction! General questions/comments here please ~
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2012, 11:07:36 PM »
Lemons cars dont need anything that nice. 
Josh
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Offline Jordan Innovations

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Re: ~ Introduction! General questions/comments here please ~
« Reply #14 on: January 18, 2012, 12:58:47 AM »
Lemons cars dont need anything that nice.

Haha I totally thought of the Lemons thread we had on here when I was talking to the guy... he's got Racelogic TC he's thinking of putting on too lol, with the Mil-spec engine harness we just made.