December 17, 2018, 11:48:04 AM

Author Topic: White 94 FD LS2/L92 build thread  (Read 23929 times)

Offline sonicgroove

Re: White 94 FD LS2/L92 build thread
« Reply #120 on: November 30, 2018, 09:23:30 PM »
The main fuse box sticker is worn out with half the label missing so I decided to take a stab at making a custom replacement. I'm not sure if the dimensions are correct and how the final product will turn out but when it comes in I'll post pictures of it along side another cover that has the oem label intact. If it turns out decent I will have spares and if anyone is interested I was thinking of selling the remainder. Sticker is printed on permanent white vinyl.

I was able to pick up a pair of factory rear brake brackets from local rx7club member today and was notified that my SBG rear brake kit was shipped. The expected arrival date is tomorrow. If weather and health permits I'll do a comparison of the 314mm rotor vs the 330mm rotor with plenty of pictures of course.

Also ordered some feed style side skirts and DEI titanium spark plug sleeves. I'm thinking of wrapping the shorty headers soon but would like to weld a o2 bung on the drivers side header first of course now I'm thinking I should just buy the wideband now since the kit I want (aem x series) comes with the bung I need. The sale going on makes the temptation even greater.

-groovin
1987 MAZDA RX-7 LS1 T56 | 1995 MAZDA RX-7 ST PORT BOLT-ON'S ADAPTRONIC PNP | 1994 MAZDA RX-7 TSP 416 LS3 T56 MAGNUM E40 ECM

Offline sonicgroove

Re: White 94 FD LS2/L92 build thread
« Reply #121 on: December 03, 2018, 03:30:24 AM »
I made the adjustments to the fan settings and the results were unsatisfactory. During idle temps still hit and hold at 206F-210F with the fan running indefinitely. Increasing rpms to 1500-2000 drop temps to 194 but that is still not low enough to trigger the fans off. With a stock thermostat (187F iirc) I donít think the temps will be able to hit the off setting, after all stock fan settings for the ls2 are set to maintain a temp of 220F-235F.  Iím more concerned with longevity and performance than emissions so  temps in the 180F-200F are preferred. Iíll swap over to a 160F thermostat soon and test to see if the wide open flow helps idle temps. If not, Iím thinking there may be a flow issue at idle. Have you heard of or is there such a thing as a smaller diameter pulley for the stock water pump?

The SKB rear brake kit arrived and itís installed. Clearances are very tight. Their kit comes with an 8mm hex extension and replacement hex bolts which are mandatory. Installation requires fitting the hex bolt into the top extension hole before securing the adapter plate to the spindle otherwise you wonít be able to put the hex bolt in. The adapter relocates the hole higher and closer to the rear upper control arm. The upper control arm flares outwards nearly interfering with the new bolt location. The fit is so tight the bolt is restricted to pulling out no more than a mm or 2. This essentially means once bolt is in it canít come out unless the adapter comes out first. Since the hex bolt is so close to the control arm getting a socket or wrench  there is nearly impossible hence the need for the 8mm extension rod. The extension rod is about 4inches or so in length and skinny. Its frame pushes out far enough to clear both the arm and caliper allowing use of an 8mm socket or wrench to tighten the bolt. Itís pretty crazy how they designed this thing. Iím no engineer so I canít say much about it but they must believe getting the caliper to sit at this new angle must be worth the slight inconvenience created to get it there. Their kit uses the stock USDM rear caliper brackets. It does not work with the RZ/RS/Spirit R brackets. It is my understanding the rear calipers are all the same in every model. The brackets are the only difference which allows the calipers to sit appropriately in either the 294mm rotor (usdm and 99 spec) or 314mm rotor (RS/RZ/Spirity R). I did a quick test drive and so far everything seems to be working. I canít tell much from the previous setup except the loud grinding/clattering sound is now gone. That loud clatterying sound could have contributed to the sensation that braking was rough but braking does seem a bit smoother. However, this experience could also be biased because my knowledge of the freshly installed rotors and pads. The brake lights remain on since Iíve messed with everything. I may have done something to trip the light. If anyone has any ideas please lmk. Thanks.

I also installed the shine rear street diffuser. Most of the pre-marked drill holes lined up but I did stretch them out a bit for extra play. Their installation instructions state to use double sided tape to attach the sides but since the future entails rear mudguards I drilled a few holes where the mudguards would normally mount to the rear quarter panel, popped in a pair of nylon square nuts (usually found in license plates mounting kits) and secured the diffuser with the screws instead of the doubled sided tape. I was too lazy to take accurate measurements for the holes so I just eyeballed it and popped holes in it like swiss cheese. I donít mind too much because a larger washer can hide it but better yet the rear mudguards will ultimately cover it up.. The most difficult area of the install was the corner where the muffler sits. The muffler gets in the way of using a screw driver making a hex nut better suited versus a screw. I tried so many ways to get a screw type hex to work with a body panel retaining clip but all attempts were disappointing. In the end I drilled a larger hole on the body panel clip so it can accommodate a standard metric hex bolt then tack welded a nut to the opposite side. This was the only way I could get any bolt/screw to catch the other end of the clip. The body lines could be better but itís not terrible either. Good from a far but far from good as they say.

As usual picture crazy.











1987 MAZDA RX-7 LS1 T56 | 1995 MAZDA RX-7 ST PORT BOLT-ON'S ADAPTRONIC PNP | 1994 MAZDA RX-7 TSP 416 LS3 T56 MAGNUM E40 ECM

Offline sonicgroove

Re: White 94 FD LS2/L92 build thread
« Reply #122 on: December 03, 2018, 03:32:00 AM »



Hard to see but this picture is the 314mm rotor sitting on top the 330mm for diameter comparison



The top black hex bolt is the trapped prisoner which you can kind of tell in these next couple of pictures.










Front stop techs with wheels on

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Sbg rear brake kit with wheels on

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-groovin
« Last Edit: December 09, 2018, 05:16:27 AM by sonicgroove »
1987 MAZDA RX-7 LS1 T56 | 1995 MAZDA RX-7 ST PORT BOLT-ON'S ADAPTRONIC PNP | 1994 MAZDA RX-7 TSP 416 LS3 T56 MAGNUM E40 ECM

Offline digitalsolo

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Re: White 94 FD LS2/L92 build thread
« Reply #123 on: December 04, 2018, 12:16:16 PM »
Brakes and diffuser look great!    I'd definitely look at a 160* stat;  I had similar issues with my old FC regarding idle temperatures (because turbo probably).    I made a few changes, but was never able to resolve it 100% with a mechanical water pump.  I ended up with an electric for other reasons and it did solve the "issue" but I'd think a fresh OE pump might have been sufficient as well.
Blake MF'ing McBride
1988 Mazda RX7 - Turbo LS1/T56/ProEFI/8.8/Not Slow...   sold.
1965 Mustang Coupe - TT Coyote, TR6060, modern brakes/suspension...  project car
2013 Focus ST3 - Stage 1 BPU

Offline flattop

Re: White 94 FD LS2/L92 build thread
« Reply #124 on: December 04, 2018, 01:59:12 PM »
What is fans are you running? At what temp does the first fan coming on?

I have a stock RX7 size Fluidyne running with the FD OEM fans.  This is with an LS2. My fans are controlled by the E40 ECU.  I have used both the stock and 160 thermostat with no issues idling.

Send me a pm if you'd like to have or see my settings.

Perhaps you have a pump issue.

Offline sonicgroove

Re: White 94 FD LS2/L92 build thread
« Reply #125 on: December 04, 2018, 05:47:29 PM »
Brakes and diffuser look great!    I'd definitely look at a 160* stat;  I had similar issues with my old FC regarding idle temperatures (because turbo probably).    I made a few changes, but was never able to resolve it 100% with a mechanical water pump.  I ended up with an electric for other reasons and it did solve the "issue" but I'd think a fresh OE pump might have been sufficient as well.

Thanks Blake. Getting the exterior closer to the panda look I'm going for. Still debating if I want to do CF fender air ducts, CF hood (or vent the stock hood), CF AutoEXE rear wing deck, and carshopglow taillights v4. Only definites are 99 spec front bumper, feed style side skirts, mudguards, and square 18" ccw classics with a polished lip and matte gun metal face. If I get this done it would be the first time I have ever owned a car with an exterior setup I've dreamed of. I usually settle out of laziness or costs but this time around I'd like to reach that goal.

I'm trying to be optimistic with the 160F tstat but since the temps still don't drop below 206ish and the stock tstat is likely to be opened completely by that temp the appropriate conclusion is probably a flow issue. More specifically the question remains is the current pump not flowing stock numbers or is stock flow not enough?  The fact that increasing rpms drop the temps regardless of the higher heat output at that level reinforces that conclusion. An electric pump would definitely be an all answer solution.

What is fans are you running? At what temp does the first fan coming on?

I have a stock RX7 size Fluidyne running with the FD OEM fans.  This is with an LS2. My fans are controlled by the E40 ECU.  I have used both the stock and 160 thermostat with no issues idling.

Send me a pm if you'd like to have or see my settings.

Perhaps you have a pump issue.

I think the fan and radiator is a samberg v1 setup that has been modified to fix the ground clearance issue that presented when it was first released. I'm also guessing the wiring setup uses a pez relay harness with the e40 ecm. The e40 settings are stock with the exception of my changes: fan parameters G0903 fan power upper limit changed from 88 to 94 and the fan power ect scale G0901 89c set to 25% (off) and 91c-121c set to 94% (both fans on). Previous settings were 91% so my adjustments were really minimal if not moot. I'm also not sure if the wiring is setup for a low and high (1 fan on vs 2 fans) or if it just triggers both fans on/off.

-groovin
1987 MAZDA RX-7 LS1 T56 | 1995 MAZDA RX-7 ST PORT BOLT-ON'S ADAPTRONIC PNP | 1994 MAZDA RX-7 TSP 416 LS3 T56 MAGNUM E40 ECM

Offline MPbdy

Re: White 94 FD LS2/L92 build thread
« Reply #126 on: December 04, 2018, 07:04:00 PM »
I have an electric pump on the shelf I'm trying next time I tear my car apart.  Heat soak in these things is a mofo and it is pretty annoying to try and keep it cool at a drag strip or track event.  I've fought with the radiator puking water after I shut the car off even though it is nowhere near overheating when running.

Meziere claims to be suitable for mile events and road racing...sustained rpm is not a problem according to them.  I've seen both good and bad experiences with temperature control from road racers.  We'll see!  On the street and for controlling the temperature I don't see any better option.

You've got to find a way to get your fans to turn on sooner if you swap out the tstat otherwise it does you no good. The temps will simply climb until the fans come on.


Offline sonicgroove

Re: White 94 FD LS2/L92 build thread
« Reply #127 on: December 04, 2018, 08:43:52 PM »
I have an electric pump on the shelf I'm trying next time I tear my car apart.  Heat soak in these things is a mofo and it is pretty annoying to try and keep it cool at a drag strip or track event.  I've fought with the radiator puking water after I shut the car off even though it is nowhere near overheating when running.

Meziere claims to be suitable for mile events and road racing...sustained rpm is not a problem according to them.  I've seen both good and bad experiences with temperature control from road racers.  We'll see!  On the street and for controlling the temperature I don't see any better option.

You've got to find a way to get your fans to turn on sooner if you swap out the tstat otherwise it does you no good. The temps will simply climb until the fans come on.



I hear you on the heat soak. I'm trying to get engine bay temps down as much as possible which is why I have (2) orders of heat wrap sitting in my amazon account waiting for me to pull the trigger. I want to wrap those headers asap but am hesitant because if I take them out I figure I might as well tap a hole and weld an o2 bung on their in preparation of a wideband. Which then brings up the question if I should just add the wideband to the cart and get it all done at the same time.

I'm looking to see if a custom os is available for the e40 ecm with EFI Live. My research at this point hasn't led to a definitive answer so I posted the question on efi live forums. Hopefully I can upgrade to a custom os and reload my current calibration; basically not lose anything and gain more flexibility in tuning.

-groovin

1987 MAZDA RX-7 LS1 T56 | 1995 MAZDA RX-7 ST PORT BOLT-ON'S ADAPTRONIC PNP | 1994 MAZDA RX-7 TSP 416 LS3 T56 MAGNUM E40 ECM

Offline flattop

Re: White 94 FD LS2/L92 build thread
« Reply #128 on: December 05, 2018, 07:14:02 PM »
I am a little puzzled, you had stated that your fans were not turning off when the engine was revved to 1500-2000 rpms  and the temp was194F, at that temp the fans should be off.

If you are using HPTuners, you can just shift the values to the left in the "Fan Desired % vs. ECT" table to obtain a lower starting temp for the fans as well as a lower temp to turn off.

My settings are 25, 25, 25, 51 for cells 192, 196, 199, 203 all other cells are 91

Offline sonicgroove

Re: White 94 FD LS2/L92 build thread
« Reply #129 on: December 06, 2018, 04:20:34 AM »
I am a little puzzled, you had stated that your fans were not turning off when the engine was revved to 1500-2000 rpms  and the temp was194F, at that temp the fans should be off.

If you are using HPTuners, you can just shift the values to the left in the "Fan Desired % vs. ECT" table to obtain a lower starting temp for the fans as well as a lower temp to turn off.

My settings are 25, 25, 25, 51 for cells 192, 196, 199, 203 all other cells are 91

Fan Power % vs ECT

Cells in celcius begin at 89 and go up by 2 degrees up to a max of of 121. 89c = 192.2F even if you round up that's 193F but the computer will read this as 192F. My temp hits 194 (90c) at its lowest when the rpms are increased. That means the ecu never sees 192 which means that particular scale is never hit and the off setting is never triggered. If revving the engine made the temp drop to 192 (89c) then the fans would turn off. My settings are 89c = 25% 91c-121c = 94%

Attached is a copy of a stock ls2 e40 ecm fan setting. As you can see the scaling only allows adjustment to a minimum of 89c which translate to 192.2F. This has to be 25% or less to trigger the fan off. If this was set to anything else it would trigger the fan on and the ecu would have no definition of when to shut the fan off. IIRC A factory dual fan setup 0%-25% fans off 49%-89% fan 1 turns on 90% and above both fans turn on. Keep in mind factory thermostat is 187F and the first fan turns on at 221F. That is a difference of at least 30 degrees ensuring a completely open thermostat and full flow of coolant between the block and radiator. If I got a 160 thermostat and my fans are set to trigger on at 194F that's approximately the same difference and relationship (fan setting vs thermostat temp) than stock settings. This is also the reason why I'm trying to be hopeful that a 160F thermostat might help because it ensures wide open flow of coolant between the block and radiator with fans blasting away dropping temps as much as the fan CFM allows vs a 187F thermostat that could possibly be half way closed at 192-196F restricting flow and causing what appears to be a flow issue during idle. If the lower thermostat doesn't fix the problem then its definitely a pump flow issue.

I hope this clears up any misunderstanding I may have caused and provides a clearer picture of my thoughts.

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-groovin
1987 MAZDA RX-7 LS1 T56 | 1995 MAZDA RX-7 ST PORT BOLT-ON'S ADAPTRONIC PNP | 1994 MAZDA RX-7 TSP 416 LS3 T56 MAGNUM E40 ECM

Offline flattop

Re: White 94 FD LS2/L92 build thread
« Reply #130 on: December 06, 2018, 10:39:35 AM »
It's not you it's me, your communication skills are good my comprehension is bad.

Do the fans ever turn off?

With the stock settings, it appears they should turn off when less than 25% around 103C.

Prior to the thermostat change, I would reload the stock settings to test if the fans turn off. 




Offline sonicgroove

Re: White 94 FD LS2/L92 build thread
« Reply #131 on: December 06, 2018, 01:59:24 PM »
It's not you it's me, your communication skills are good my comprehension is bad.

Do the fans ever turn off?

With the stock settings, it appears they should turn off when less than 25% around 103C.

Prior to the thermostat change, I would reload the stock settings to test if the fans turn off.

The fans do turn off. After sitting overnight the fans are off until temps hit 91c. They stay on most of the time the car is driven, at least from what I can hear, but when the car is parked and sitting for about an hour the temps drop enough for the fans to remain off when restarted. I may consider changing the off settings to a higher temp if they fail to turn off after I change the thermostat and the temps hit 89c.

-groovin
1987 MAZDA RX-7 LS1 T56 | 1995 MAZDA RX-7 ST PORT BOLT-ON'S ADAPTRONIC PNP | 1994 MAZDA RX-7 TSP 416 LS3 T56 MAGNUM E40 ECM

Offline sonicgroove

Re: White 94 FD LS2/L92 build thread
« Reply #132 on: December 07, 2018, 01:04:05 AM »
Can anyone confirm motorad 456-160 thermostat is the right part number for an ls3?

-groovin
1987 MAZDA RX-7 LS1 T56 | 1995 MAZDA RX-7 ST PORT BOLT-ON'S ADAPTRONIC PNP | 1994 MAZDA RX-7 TSP 416 LS3 T56 MAGNUM E40 ECM

Offline sonicgroove

Re: White 94 FD LS2/L92 build thread
« Reply #133 on: December 07, 2018, 05:27:21 AM »
I think I found the right one, going to order it and try it out. 523-160

-groovin
1987 MAZDA RX-7 LS1 T56 | 1995 MAZDA RX-7 ST PORT BOLT-ON'S ADAPTRONIC PNP | 1994 MAZDA RX-7 TSP 416 LS3 T56 MAGNUM E40 ECM

Offline flattop

Re: White 94 FD LS2/L92 build thread
« Reply #134 on: December 07, 2018, 10:08:44 AM »
Some info here, has lingenfelter part numbers and a/c Delco with descriptions and dimensions of thermostats

https://www.lingenfelter.com/PDFdownloads/LPE%20Thermostats%20List.pdf