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Author Topic: White 94 FD LS2/L92 build thread  (Read 27061 times)

Offline Bob H

Re: White 94 FD LS2/L92 build thread
« Reply #30 on: July 01, 2010, 01:59:27 PM »
Part of that issue concerns to A/C condenser and how close/far it was from the radiator. 
 
Quick review.  OEM's have what amounts to a sealed setup between the ac condenser and the radiator - i.e. no air can go around the condenser and get behind it before going in the radiator.  This ensures good a/c performance when stopped - i.e. no airflow from the car moving.  At that point you are relying exclusively on the fan to pull air through both the radiator and the ac condenser.  With Sambergs current setup, there is virtually no flow through the condenser when stopped - because air takes the path of least resistance and will flow predominately around the condenser.
 For there to be flow THROUGH any radiator surface - there needs to be a pressure differential.  Higher pressure on the front, lower pressure on the back.  The fan creates a low pressure on the back of the radiator - and the ambient/higher pressure on the front helps push air through the core.  There is a very minor drop in pressure in the stock samberg setup - so not much "cooling" of the refrigerant can occur. 
 We run into one big problem with Sambergs design - the end tanks stick up a lot compared to other radiators,(OEM/etc..).  That means for the generic a/c condenser we are using, you still need to be able to hook up the hoses - so you must space the condenser far enough away to allow that, yet minimizing the space between it and the radiator.  In the end, the best I could do was about 1" of space - a fair amount.  Normally I will fill that space with foam you get to fill spaces in a door or window.  Well, the largest you can usually get that is 1/2" - meaning there are some challenges here.  So I doubled it up to get a good foam seal all around the condenser - meaning all airflow through that part of the radiator - must go through the condenser - no air can go around the condenser and then go through the radiator that is behind it. 
 Basic mods - we dropped the mounting plates parallel to the radiator.  Because its so close, that would make it hard/difficult to put nuts on the back of screws to hold the condenser on.  So I put some simple nutserts into it so I can just screw it in.  Last, I had to put foam all around the condenser to seal it up - I don't have a picture, but I do have a shot where I was testing thickness.  It was a pain - and I don't really like this solution to be honest.  I think the end tanks need to be re-designed or a solution engineered to allow a ducting from the a/c condenser to the core.  It wouldn't be terribly difficult to build a small "box" that bolts to the top and bottom of the condenser and has a flat surface that you then put a small piece of say 1/8" foam on to seal the gap.  I cut those "tabs" off mine for airflow - but in the end, it would have allowed a small "box" to be built around it and that would be the route I'd do now. 
 So here you go.  Forgive the horrible lower "hole" welding as that was my mistake we had to fix after a first, much more elegant solution that was wrong because I measured wrong.....

New lowered bracket:



Distance of the condenser core:



Foam "sealer" for airflow:



Datsun 240Z (2), Big Duramax truck

Offline Bob H

Re: White 94 FD LS2/L92 build thread
« Reply #31 on: July 01, 2010, 02:13:45 PM »
Camber bolts/washers - I HATE the current setup - which has been changed.  Justin is sending me a new subframe with the newer setup - because for tracking, the older setup just won't work. 
 Issue - original "large" washers were mild steel - doesn't work so well when trying to move the suspension - they already have about 10-15 degrees of freeplay, and they quickly round out as the steel can't handle the force.  Justin now builds them out of Chrome-moly.  That should solve the wallowing out/rounding out issue.  But the bigger concern for me - the old setup which I vocally disagreed with, was only constrained on one side - the washer side.  I still firmly believe he needs to offer a stock camber washer/bolt setup.  Instead, he has gone to a large washer on both sides - and he welds the washers to the bolt head and to the nut side.  This keeps them from "moving" around when your trying to set camber/etc...  I still don't like the solution, but its better than the previous one. 
 I'll say it again - he really needs to offer a stock camber washer/bolt setup.  The number of people that need more than 3 degrees of negative camber are tiny - this suspension just doesn't need it in 99% of the cases.  It is one of the major beefs I have with his setup but I'm dealing with it. 
 Another issue of the mild steel - it rusted almost immediately - so I had them zinc plated:



But they rounded out almost immediately - even with a ridiculous amount of torque on the bolts/nuts holding them - the suspension would move when I pushed the car around. 
 Enough ranting about that - Justin is making it right by sending me another subframe and I'll be sending mine back to him.  I just don't like the fact that I need to drop the subframe off the car - and get another subframe powdercoated.... 
So far, my "extra" cost for his setup has run over $500 - and I paid his premium because I wanted a complete setup I didn't need to re-engineer or fix.  That's learning though- and I've said it before, and I still believe it - Justin's is one of the best setups out there - and his trade-offs have largely been fixed,(smaller radiator now, new fans, new camber washer setups, etc..).  I just wasn't happy to be a guinea pig on this one.. 
« Last Edit: July 01, 2010, 02:19:31 PM by Bob H »
Datsun 240Z (2), Big Duramax truck

Offline Bob H

Re: White 94 FD LS2/L92 build thread
« Reply #32 on: July 01, 2010, 02:23:45 PM »
I've got lots more updates - but not the time to type them out.  A lot of the pictures are here for browsing:
http://s464.photobucket.com/albums/rr9/rehanvey/White%2094%20FD/?start=0
If you have a question on a specific photo - just ask. 
Datsun 240Z (2), Big Duramax truck

Offline ProjectD

Re: White 94 FD LS2/L92 build thread
« Reply #33 on: July 01, 2010, 05:18:50 PM »
could you elaborate a little more on the camber bolts.  My D-shaped peace doesn't even slip over the bolt. Also my lower control arms are in there super tight and i'm afraid my plates might get stripped out as well.  do youhave any pics of yours installed?

Offline Bob H

Re: White 94 FD LS2/L92 build thread
« Reply #34 on: July 01, 2010, 06:35:23 PM »
If you have the camber "washers" that are mild steel - i.e. they are rusting a little, or if your in doubt, give Justin a call.  He's changed them to the chrome-moly and the issue I had should be gone.  I'll post some more tonight - but that is the first step. 
Datsun 240Z (2), Big Duramax truck

Offline Cryptic

Re: White 94 FD LS2/L92 build thread
« Reply #35 on: July 02, 2010, 02:18:59 AM »
I rounded one of my camber washers too :( it didn't take much
1995 427 LS3 Burnout Widebody FD
My build thread
2011 Ford F250 CCSB 6.7L

Online paul_3rdgen

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Re: White 94 FD LS2/L92 build thread
« Reply #36 on: July 02, 2010, 08:56:01 AM »
I have the first design of Sambergs Radiator, I've scraped the fan many times, and I would also like to mod mine.  The original design is also to low to run the stock plastic undertray.  Where can I get this done, or can I cut it and get it welded or is there something I'm missing?  and what fan would work?
93 RX7 R1 500rwhp
LS2, H/C combo... ARE drysump
Race Logic traction Control and 4 wheel Stoptech BBK
3.73 gears installed in the stock diff  :o

Offline Bob H

Re: White 94 FD LS2/L92 build thread
« Reply #37 on: July 02, 2010, 07:28:41 PM »
I knew a very good aluminum welder and had some big balls to cut it up.  The cutting is fairly easy - you just have to watch the thin aluminum tubes. 
 A few quick notes.
 If you want to duplicate what I did - the tanks are easy to cut - then when you cut down between the two tubes - cut as far away from the tubes you'll be using as you can - i.e. leave lots of the "material" between the tubes. - you'll be cutting very close to the last tube your cutting off.  The reason for this is to ensure adequate "meat" on the ends where its thin and makes it easier for the welder.   
 You then just weld some square plates on the end - and then you need to cut out the lower neck and the "divider".  The divider is only held on by a single weld - just move it up two rows of tubing and re-affix it in the "C" portion of the tanks.  It doesn't need, and shouldn't be, welded all the way around - because air needs to be able to migrate between the two sides - otherwise it can trap air. 
 As for the fan - Justin now has a new setup that will work with the shorter fan setup.  I'm going to use two fans with no shroud - and I still haven't figured out what two I'm using - but I'll put it up here.  If you call and talk to Justin - his newer fan setup with his now "old" design radiator solved most of the issues people had.  Very few were actually hitting the radiator.  I drive in places where I will hit - that's why I modified mine. 
 I'm running out the door to listen to my wife sing the National Anthem - maybe Sunday I can elaborate if needed.  I'll give my number to anyone who wants to discuss how to do it in more detail. 
-Bob
Datsun 240Z (2), Big Duramax truck

Offline Bob H

Re: White 94 FD LS2/L92 build thread
« Reply #38 on: July 02, 2010, 07:30:34 PM »
I rounded one of my camber washers too :( it didn't take much
call Justin if you haven't already - he'll give you the new ones. 
Datsun 240Z (2), Big Duramax truck

Offline Bob H

Re: White 94 FD LS2/L92 build thread
« Reply #39 on: October 27, 2010, 06:23:20 PM »
Well, back up to the top after a long hiatus with updates.  Work didn't stop, but it did slow significantly.  I'm trying like hell to get that last 5% done so I can drive it down to TX in three weeks.  Wiring, etc.. is mostly what's left.  Its all little stuff, nothing major. 
 Help motivate me to get my ass moving.   :D
Datsun 240Z (2), Big Duramax truck

Offline Shavel

Re: White 94 FD LS2/L92 build thread
« Reply #40 on: October 27, 2010, 10:48:23 PM »
I shot down a couple of Mig 29s today.  Also achieved 550 maybe 600 knots while buzzing a mountain range at 5000 ft and squeezing off a couple hundred 20 mm rounds .  Of course, it was in an F18 flight simulator w/ a 40" dome screen. 

http://www.shephard.co.uk/news/6608/

I hope you get to see this someday.  Its INSANE (in concept). 

I'm sure there'll be days that I'll miss my job, if/when I finally leave it.

White on red is HOT!  Lets see it race!
Ant

GregD

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Re: White 94 FD LS2/L92 build thread
« Reply #41 on: October 28, 2010, 12:09:55 PM »
I'm trying like hell to get that last 5% done so I can drive it down to TX in three weeks. 

Bob are you still a T-45 IP?

If your trip takes you through Dallas drop me a PM.

Offline Bob H

Re: White 94 FD LS2/L92 build thread
« Reply #42 on: October 28, 2010, 11:15:02 PM »
Bob are you still a T-45 IP?

If your trip takes you through Dallas drop me a PM.

Still a T45 IP in the reserves - heading back down there on the 8th I think?  Monday, back up on the 15-16th.  I go through Dallas every time - Usually I-35 to 75/69 up to I-40.   
Datsun 240Z (2), Big Duramax truck

Offline Bob H

Re: White 94 FD LS2/L92 build thread
« Reply #43 on: October 28, 2010, 11:17:54 PM »
I hope you get to see this someday.  Its INSANE (in concept). 

I'm sure there'll be days that I'll miss my job, if/when I finally leave it.

White on red is HOT!  Lets see it race!

Our two new T-45 simulators are the new state of the art ones - pretty impressive graphics - and you can link it to another sim and fight them.  Pretty cool stuff. 
 I'll take mine on the track if you take yours! (ok, its going on the track regardless)
Datsun 240Z (2), Big Duramax truck

Offline Bob H

Re: White 94 FD LS2/L92 build thread
« Reply #44 on: November 01, 2010, 08:36:59 PM »
Chasing down all those last min things that keep you from starting the car.....
Had the HID lights kit - turns out one ballast was bad - they are sending two of their new ones... But the light pattern is great! 
Power finally to the fuel pump, however, no no power from the ECM...... Had it before - as I've loaded the stock tune up into my computer, but as I was trying to flash the new/changed one back on....no joy even seeing it...  ARGH!!
On a good note, I FINALLY got my parts from Dave B - bronze bushings for my tri point and the all important v8 spacers!  I gave up on the sway bar mounts.  That saga was a long story - don't know that I can recommend him to others now.  Ordered in Feb... Got today....   :o
Anyways, time to head back out and see what is up with the ECU not getting pwr... What did I disconnect...??
« Last Edit: November 01, 2010, 08:45:15 PM by Bob H »
Datsun 240Z (2), Big Duramax truck