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Author Topic: FD LS3 Race Car Build (KingKyle)  (Read 42101 times)

Offline digitalsolo

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Re: FD LS3 Race Car Build (KingKyle)
« Reply #30 on: May 25, 2010, 01:54:04 PM »
Quote from: bosscobra
so ur running 285/30s up front with stock fenders? whats ur wheel width front and back? and tire size out back and was that 7.5 backspacing front and back as well?

Yup 285/30's up front with the stock fenders. 335/30's in the back. The wheels are 18x10 fronts and 18x12.5's in the back. 7.5 inches of backspacing on both wheels.

Quote from: Bigblockquad
Ok.....show of hands......Who thinks his car is a sexy bitch.

I can vouch for Kyle on the rims. Ordered a set of custom Forgelines from him last month and actually got them a week before I was supposed to. Very competative price too.

BTW, Kyle......you pussed out for not using the GT bumper.......

Rich.

yeah i know.... i love the bumper but I'm having a hard time figuring out why it doesn't match up with the mounting system on the FD. It seems like everyone that runs the GT bumper has those burn out flares. Also, the bumper seems like its too open. The more holes in the bumper the more drag and less downforce. The stock bumper is so smooth its perfect. I know it doesn't look good but its functional

Rich... when are you going to post pics of your build?
Blake MF'ing McBride
1988 Mazda RX7 - Turbo LS1/T56/ProEFI/8.8/Not Slow...   sold.
1965 Mustang Coupe - TT Coyote, TR6060, modern brakes/suspension...  project car
2013 Focus ST3 - Stage 1 BPU

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Re: FD LS3 Race Car Build (KingKyle)
« Reply #31 on: May 25, 2010, 01:54:59 PM »
Proper aero.... not for the faint of heart.



Blake MF'ing McBride
1988 Mazda RX7 - Turbo LS1/T56/ProEFI/8.8/Not Slow...   sold.
1965 Mustang Coupe - TT Coyote, TR6060, modern brakes/suspension...  project car
2013 Focus ST3 - Stage 1 BPU

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Re: FD LS3 Race Car Build (KingKyle)
« Reply #32 on: May 25, 2010, 01:55:23 PM »
Quote from: cozmo kraemer
Wings work best in clean(er) less turbulent air. The higher the better from an aerodynamics standpoint, I think racecars at one point got them so high that the sanctioning bodies started limiting the height. I hate the ricer connotation of high spoilers...It is function over form in this case.

Next up...underbody aero! I wonder how much would be possible on the FD chassis? I wish I was a testing engineer on a project like that.

Then I would enjoy going to work everyday...

Yeah.. i have to warn you guys.. this is not a beauty contest. I wont be rocking an APR wing hehe. Very true cozmo... in a car like this... i'll need all the rear downforce I can get. Clean air is the key.
Blake MF'ing McBride
1988 Mazda RX7 - Turbo LS1/T56/ProEFI/8.8/Not Slow...   sold.
1965 Mustang Coupe - TT Coyote, TR6060, modern brakes/suspension...  project car
2013 Focus ST3 - Stage 1 BPU

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Re: FD LS3 Race Car Build (KingKyle)
« Reply #33 on: May 25, 2010, 01:58:43 PM »
Well... its been 3 months of hard work and the car is ready for its first test. I'll be posting in car video tomorrow night if I have the energy or Wed.

I've purposely left the splitter off for the first test.... a little push wont hurt on the first day.

Blake MF'ing McBride
1988 Mazda RX7 - Turbo LS1/T56/ProEFI/8.8/Not Slow...   sold.
1965 Mustang Coupe - TT Coyote, TR6060, modern brakes/suspension...  project car
2013 Focus ST3 - Stage 1 BPU

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Re: FD LS3 Race Car Build (KingKyle)
« Reply #34 on: May 25, 2010, 01:59:32 PM »
Quote from: girf
You do realize this car (and by extension the wing) is about function not form???
If ever there was a car that needed a 3 foot wing this is it.

Thanks,

Yeah I'm defiantly going after the Super Touring 1 championship next year. The wing and soon to be splitter will be purely function. the wing right now makes 1,200lbs of downforce @ 140. My splitter will come close to matching that @ 2.5 degree's of rake. The car will also be getting rocker extensions and a massive diffuser like the C6R sometime over the season. Alot of you guys will think the car looks silly but i'm all about winning.
Blake MF'ing McBride
1988 Mazda RX7 - Turbo LS1/T56/ProEFI/8.8/Not Slow...   sold.
1965 Mustang Coupe - TT Coyote, TR6060, modern brakes/suspension...  project car
2013 Focus ST3 - Stage 1 BPU

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Re: FD LS3 Race Car Build (KingKyle)
« Reply #35 on: May 25, 2010, 02:01:35 PM »
OK... here is the recap. First session out the car felt great! everything was solid. No leaks... I noticed when i applied the brakes the car wanted to dart to the left. That was a little strange. 2nd session I noticed I was loosing a little power. 3rd time out, the power loss was turning into a full bog on WOT. After some trouble shooting we discovered that the cars gas tank was not cleaned out enough and the fuel pump somehow burned out. The pump started getting louder and louder to the point it was screaming... then it basically shut off. We examined the filter and found a good amount of sediment from the uncleaned fuel tank and though that might have been the reason. Anyway.. the car felt great... huge understeer because of the wing, and also the tree trunk "racing beat" front swa ybar crap. I dunno who says that you need a huge front swaybar on the FD... i can tell you its the "safe" way to go but not the fast way. I'll be finding a way to get a smaller diameter or no sway bar at all.

Here is a link to clip from yesterday... Not only did I screw up the camera position because i was in such a rush... but I also never got a change to put the car through its paces... the video is purely a walk in the park. At least you get to hear the beast!

« Last Edit: May 25, 2010, 02:04:31 PM by digitalsolo »
Blake MF'ing McBride
1988 Mazda RX7 - Turbo LS1/T56/ProEFI/8.8/Not Slow...   sold.
1965 Mustang Coupe - TT Coyote, TR6060, modern brakes/suspension...  project car
2013 Focus ST3 - Stage 1 BPU

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Re: FD LS3 Race Car Build (KingKyle)
« Reply #36 on: May 25, 2010, 02:05:49 PM »
Quote from: andrewdruiz
SUWEEEEEET!!! I was thinking about your car during class, hahaha.
Edit- How did you like the power/powerband in comparison to your Evo?
Edit x2- and the handling? I know this was a shakedown, but it should have given you an idea...

Thanks guys!
I LOVE the power band.. with the 4.11 gear and the T-56... its weird not having any power drop between shifts.

Its also a little weird having the power band drop off after 6k... but i'll get used to it. The Evo made all its power between 6k-8k so they are very different. I prefer this motor by far.

The chassis is going to be fast. I can tell by its characteristics. I'm going to spend the good part of this season working the chassis out and making it work. I"m going to work outside the box because I see so much potential. So far so good. The car will be scary fast by test 5-6. Thats right about time for the first time attack Once I work out the fuel tank/pump situation, i'll be back out on track and have some true track video to show you guys... sorry for the crappy video this time. I usually like to show some fast laps.
Blake MF'ing McBride
1988 Mazda RX7 - Turbo LS1/T56/ProEFI/8.8/Not Slow...   sold.
1965 Mustang Coupe - TT Coyote, TR6060, modern brakes/suspension...  project car
2013 Focus ST3 - Stage 1 BPU

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Re: FD LS3 Race Car Build (KingKyle)
« Reply #37 on: May 25, 2010, 02:07:10 PM »
Quote from: 2MCHPWR
looks and sounds good. how big is your front sway bar? i have a 1.25 inch solid suspension techniques you can try out.

Hey Scott,
I'll measure it tomorrow. Last min I needed to find something because the tripoint bar wouldnt work. Thanks for the offer... i might take you up on it if its smaller than mine.
Blake MF'ing McBride
1988 Mazda RX7 - Turbo LS1/T56/ProEFI/8.8/Not Slow...   sold.
1965 Mustang Coupe - TT Coyote, TR6060, modern brakes/suspension...  project car
2013 Focus ST3 - Stage 1 BPU

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Re: FD LS3 Race Car Build (KingKyle)
« Reply #38 on: May 25, 2010, 02:50:59 PM »
Quote from: thetech
Car looks and sounds great Kyle, glad you got through the first session with no serious problems (I had the same fuel pump issue my first time out too, weird!).

One question - how will this car even be close to eligible for ST1? The weight/power rule is 5.5:1 (not include the penalties for your tire size, weight, etc) which it doesn't seem like you can get close to unless you use ALOT of ballast! I have the same problem with my 3rotor FC which is way over 5.5:1 (currently at 4.4:1) as I would like to compete in ST1 which is fairly competitive while SU is a little too loose.

Curious to see what you will do to fit in the class as I would like to follow; maybe I'll see you at the nationals next year

Yeah it makes no sense... Why would a fuel pump fail the first time out?

Well... I'm actually right on the money. My post race weight (what they actually measure at NASA) is 2,450 right now with no weight modifications. Add 200lbs for me with my race gear/hans = 2,650 +250lbs of balast (the max i'm allowed to use with NASA) puts me exactly at 2900lbs. I can then have 494HP running Hoosier A's.

When I change the car over from NASA ST1 to time attack... i'll pull the ballast out, put the fiberglass doors/hood on and re-corner weight the car... i'll be in the 2,300's

Thanks for all the nice comments guys! I'm phyched, the car has SOO much potential.
Blake MF'ing McBride
1988 Mazda RX7 - Turbo LS1/T56/ProEFI/8.8/Not Slow...   sold.
1965 Mustang Coupe - TT Coyote, TR6060, modern brakes/suspension...  project car
2013 Focus ST3 - Stage 1 BPU

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Re: FD LS3 Race Car Build (KingKyle)
« Reply #39 on: May 25, 2010, 02:52:53 PM »
Here are two pics from the event

Once i get the car cleaned up i'll do a photo shoot of the car.



Blake MF'ing McBride
1988 Mazda RX7 - Turbo LS1/T56/ProEFI/8.8/Not Slow...   sold.
1965 Mustang Coupe - TT Coyote, TR6060, modern brakes/suspension...  project car
2013 Focus ST3 - Stage 1 BPU

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Re: FD LS3 Race Car Build (KingKyle)
« Reply #40 on: May 25, 2010, 02:54:57 PM »
Quote from: Stage7
Congrats on getting the project done Kyle. A burned fuel pump is better than getting that crap further in your fuel system/motor. I can't believe how fast you went from starting the project to getting on the track. I think you are somewhat near me in NJ, I hope I get the chance to meet you and see the car some day.

Thanks, I totally agree on the fuel pump... Where in NJ are you? anytime you want to take a look at the car or meet up... i'm around. You should get your car out on track. Let me know if you need help doing so.

Quote from: Derek 357i
Wing end plates, I noticed on the pic on the trailer they appeared to be on upside down. In the above pics they appear to be right side up but maybe switched right for left? I am not certain, but most of the time when you see them they are rounded on the front side and square in the back.

Hah.. thats funny you mentioned that. They were actually backwards and upside down a few times We got it right after the first session. lol

Quote from: girf
Since you are the guy who is actually putting into effect all of my idle ideas regarding FD weight loss I thought I would throw this out there.

Have you considered converting your exhaust tubing to Titanium. Weight loss vs steel is pretty siginificant. Cost is not as bad as i thought. About $25 a foot for 3.5inch diameter tube. http://titaniumjoe.com/tubing.htm
It can be bent just like steel tubing with an exhaust shop tube bender (I checked with a titanium supplier about this) Given the ability to use a thinner wall as well as the inherent weight difference between the alloys you might be able to shave some significant weight.

Very good point. I'm actually only using the Hinson Y-pipe with a turn down in the middle of the car. The whole system is pretty light and to recreate the y-pipe would be costly. My weight savings plan has been put on hold because of the class i'm going to run in. If I went crazy with fiberglass body parts and lexan, along with other things like your exhaust tubing idea and a fuel cell... I could get the car into the 2200's. Anything
beyond that would require cutting off the front and rear 1/3's and doing tube framing.
Blake MF'ing McBride
1988 Mazda RX7 - Turbo LS1/T56/ProEFI/8.8/Not Slow...   sold.
1965 Mustang Coupe - TT Coyote, TR6060, modern brakes/suspension...  project car
2013 Focus ST3 - Stage 1 BPU

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Re: FD LS3 Race Car Build (KingKyle)
« Reply #41 on: May 25, 2010, 02:55:57 PM »
So i cut the splitter to the shape of the FD lip and its starting to look good. I had to trim the 99 spec lip so the angle of the splitter would match up. I'm shooting for 2 -4.5 degrees of rake (adjustable). Mounting it is a whole other story... i'll get to that soon.

The splitter is protrudes 3 inches all the way around

Some pics



Blake MF'ing McBride
1988 Mazda RX7 - Turbo LS1/T56/ProEFI/8.8/Not Slow...   sold.
1965 Mustang Coupe - TT Coyote, TR6060, modern brakes/suspension...  project car
2013 Focus ST3 - Stage 1 BPU

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Re: FD LS3 Race Car Build (KingKyle)
« Reply #42 on: May 25, 2010, 03:00:58 PM »
Quote from: andrewdruiz
^ +1 on the rodbolts, get some Katechs.

Hinson Y-pipe? So that would mean you're running the Hinson headers, right? If so, have you considered doing longtubes?

What are your plans for the rear brakes?

How are you going to route your intake?

How labor intensive is the rod bolts? I know I have upgraded springs with my cam. How much more power do you think I can net if i go to long tubes? I read that people had clearance issues with long tubes, is this true?

As for the rear brakes, i'm leaving the stock calipers. They should be sufficient until a good solution comes out in the Rx7 world. I'm still not convinced about any of them right now. if the car was over 2,600lbs i would be thinking of another solution... but my car will only get lighter so, i think the stock calipers with upgraded rotors/pads/fluid should be ok to get by.

Quote from: 2MCHPWR
why didn't the tripoint bar work for you? I couldn't get it to reach the 2 softest settings but besides that it fit. just curious.

Also what are you doing with the fuel tank? I put the hyperion cover on last season but this year I got starvation at 1/2 tank. I have to drop the tank to see if that cover fell off.

I couldnt get the spline on the tube to match up with the blue bracket on one of the sides. I also didnt know i needed the wide foot bracket.

I do have the surge cover you recommended. I hope it stayed on also Let me know what you find... i'll be taking my tank out next week also so i'll update you guys on my findings. You never know... that could have played a part on my pump failing.

Quote from: kukri
Always meant to ask, how long does a set of A1s tires last you usually? Few events or one weekend?
Sick car and you work fast.. (Do you have a work ? )

Hoosier A6's are fastest with the stickers still on. They can be used for a qualifying session and 1 30 min race while not loosing any speed. If your not looking for 1/10th's... they will stay fast for 5-8 good heat cycles (10-20 min sessions). And then start to slow. The R6 will not be as fast as the autocross compound but it will out last the A6 by antoher 5-6 cycles. I've gotten up to 16 good cycles from an R6.

I do work... I work from home so thats why I'm always working on the car. If i customer calls I stop what i'm doing. lol

Quote from: stlide
Kyle,

Looks nice! Where did you source that carbon honeycomb for your splitter? I am interested in using a similar solution for a canted radiator setup.

Thanks,
Shaun

Sorry for the delay answering you.

I'm actually now a dealer for the wing/splitter you see. The splitter is much much better than what you see in the picture. We dont use the aluminum honeycomb anymore... we use foam core carbon kevlar. its stronger and lighter. I'm actually cutting mine into a rough shape so i can send it out to CA where my carbon guy is so he can make a mold for me. If your interested I can you one that will fit the stock bumper with the r1/99 lip. It will have similar dimensions to what you see in the pic...
Blake MF'ing McBride
1988 Mazda RX7 - Turbo LS1/T56/ProEFI/8.8/Not Slow...   sold.
1965 Mustang Coupe - TT Coyote, TR6060, modern brakes/suspension...  project car
2013 Focus ST3 - Stage 1 BPU

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Re: FD LS3 Race Car Build (KingKyle)
« Reply #43 on: May 25, 2010, 03:05:45 PM »
Quote from: frijolee
Rod bolts are pretty easy assuming you have access to the bottom of the block...

The only trick is making sure you only go one at at time. I'd certainly call Katech and find out if rodbolts are still an issue with the LS3 (as it is on the LS1) when you rev it up.

In terms of swaybars can you offer any commentary on how much tire stagger you can dial out with swaybar adjustment? Assuming you're still pretty close to 50/50 weight ratio it seems like running a square tire setup would allow use of factory swaybars (or racing beat or anything designed for a factory-like application) but if you stray in terms of either weight distribution or tire stagger then swaybars get progressively more important. I've always understood swaybars to serve two purposes:

1) Help keep the car flat to maintian suspension geometry and help driver confidence (though this is really better done with stiffer springs if you can still keep tires on the ground)

2) Correct over/understeering bias by removing traction from whichever end has too much (assuming you're going stiffer). This would imply that by softening the front bar or stiffening the rear you'll help the front end bite more or help the rear end rotate (respectively).

Would you agree with the above from a practical standpoint? How far can you push this? I see some guys in FCs running 225 fronts 275 rear. They seem like they'd be good candidates for no front bar but I question whether it would still understeer. Obviously compound, tire pressure, and alignment settings all matter too so I wondering if you have any insight to offer. For example: what's your order of priority in suspension setup?
My guess has been pick spring rates, pick tires, dial in toe, then camber (via temps), then tire pressure, and finally swaybars but I'd love your 0.02.

Some FC guys running a less significant stagger swear by a heavy front bar and no rear bar which seems counter-intuitive to me. I was running a 235/255 stagger and found I plowed while running RB bars front and rear. That would lead me to your same conclusion about less front bar (in my case I instead choose to fit up 255s all around).

Loving the build...

-Joel

Thanks for helping out. I'll contact the motor builder to see what he used in terms of rod bolts. I think they are stock LS3's. If i do anything.. i'll be giving Katech a call.. they seem to have the road race LSX motors on lock down.

Your exactly right with your thinking when it comes to how the chassis works with swaybars. I was very shocked with the amount of under steer my first time out. Running 285's up front and 335's i the rear with a 50% front to rear weight distribution should be ok.. considering I have 500 RWHP in a 2,4xxlb car. I thought the basics were close enough where i would have a close to neutral car.

I do also have to take into account that I didnt play with tire pressures, I saw only 150 degree's in the front tires while on track and 160-180 in the rear. (in case you guys are wondering how i know my temps on track... I'm the manufacturer of the Opti-grip, on board tire temperature monitor Optigrip Tire Temperature Monitoring System - Hot Lap Products - Hot Lap Motorsports, Inc.).

Once i play with the tires and the shock settings i'll have a more difinitive idea of how the chassis is balanced. I also need to take into account the HUGE rear wing and no front aero.

May 3rd is my next test and i'll have more answers
Blake MF'ing McBride
1988 Mazda RX7 - Turbo LS1/T56/ProEFI/8.8/Not Slow...   sold.
1965 Mustang Coupe - TT Coyote, TR6060, modern brakes/suspension...  project car
2013 Focus ST3 - Stage 1 BPU

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Re: FD LS3 Race Car Build (KingKyle)
« Reply #44 on: May 25, 2010, 03:07:49 PM »
Quote from: frijolee
+1 on the tire system... but when's version 2.0 come out with 12 sensors so you can see inner middle and outer edges?

hah... lots of people ask that. The problem with having 12 sensors is two things.

1. Trying to process twelve sets of temps while on track could cause some issues.
2. The front tires turn left and right so its difficult for the average guy to install a bracket that moves with the hub assembly.

The product is really helpful for people that want to get a general idea of what the tires are doing. What your temps are at the green flag and how they progress through a race or long stints. Getting the 3 temps across the tire is easy when you come in the pits.

In 3 weeks i'll have 0-5v sensors that i'll sell in sets of 12 for the serious racers that want to connect them into there existing data acquisition systems like Motec, AIM, and so on.
Blake MF'ing McBride
1988 Mazda RX7 - Turbo LS1/T56/ProEFI/8.8/Not Slow...   sold.
1965 Mustang Coupe - TT Coyote, TR6060, modern brakes/suspension...  project car
2013 Focus ST3 - Stage 1 BPU