February 28, 2021, 02:12:02 PM

Author Topic: 4 channel ABS  (Read 6331 times)

Offline paul_3rdgen

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Re: 4 channel ABS
« Reply #90 on: February 21, 2021, 02:52:34 PM »
Itís Sunday!  While the kids are eating, Iím laying out my fittings, pressure sensors, and pump.  Checking I have everything I need.  Iím going to make a good list, I havenít decided whether I will make kits yet but I will lay it out for everyone to follow along. 
So far I know you need 6 bulkhead fittings, 4 brake line adapters for the pressure sensors, and the rest of the fittings will be listed as I go.  Iím using all aluminum fittings where possible, they have tube nuts and tube flares which will make for less flaring needed. 




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93 RX7 R1 500rwhp
LS2, H/C combo... ARE drysump
Race Logic traction Control and 4 wheel Stoptech BBK
3.73 gears installed in the stock diff  :o

Offline Cobranut

Re: 4 channel ABS
« Reply #91 on: February 22, 2021, 12:30:51 AM »
I'm not sure aluminum fittings are legal for use on brake lines.  Small aluminum fittings are prone to cracking under repeated brake line pressures.
Also, use either steel, stainless steel, or cupronickel lines for brakes.  Copper or aluminum lines won't handle the pressures involved.
I've found the cupronickel line is very easy to bend and flare, is very corrosion resistant, and looks nice.
Not sure what the tube flares you referred to are, but compression fittings are also not allowed for brakes.  The tubing can extrude itself out of the ferrule under high pressure, resulting in sudden brake loss.  :o

This is a great project, but please make sure it's safe above all else.
1995 FD, 7.0 Liter stroked LS3, T56, 8.8, Samberg kit.

Offline Exidous

Re: 4 channel ABS
« Reply #92 on: February 22, 2021, 02:13:44 AM »
100% double flare every fitting. The copper nickel line is super easy to work with and perfect for brakes.
94 BB Sleeved gen IV LS7, MS3ProU with TC, RONIN 8.8 and LT's with custom 3.5"single to VAREX muffler.

Offline paul_3rdgen

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4 channel ABS
« Reply #93 on: February 22, 2021, 07:59:23 AM »
Thank you gentlemen!! Noted.  I did buy copper nickel line, 2 rolls.  So looks like Iíll be needing to source some new fittings which shouldnít be that difficult. 


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93 RX7 R1 500rwhp
LS2, H/C combo... ARE drysump
Race Logic traction Control and 4 wheel Stoptech BBK
3.73 gears installed in the stock diff  :o

Online wickedrx7

Re: 4 channel ABS
« Reply #94 on: February 22, 2021, 08:21:41 AM »
One more tip, buy a high quality flare tool, especially for doing double flares. You will thank yourself.

1993 Touring, 2012 L99, T-56, Ronnin 8.8, Ohlins, Speedhut, Samberg and lots of custom parts
Build Thread - http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=19354.0
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Offline paul_3rdgen

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Re: 4 channel ABS
« Reply #95 on: February 22, 2021, 10:30:49 AM »
http://downstarinc.com/Shop/tuckin-brakes-kit.html

These are the fittings I bought.  Just thinking.  Do i use them? And single flare the line where it goes to aluminum fitting?  And use metal everywhere else?  I have all the bulkhead fittings in aluminum with all the brake line ends in aluminum that go to the bulkhead fittings.  Iíll snap pics tonight


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93 RX7 R1 500rwhp
LS2, H/C combo... ARE drysump
Race Logic traction Control and 4 wheel Stoptech BBK
3.73 gears installed in the stock diff  :o

Offline Exidous

Re: 4 channel ABS
« Reply #96 on: February 22, 2021, 04:45:06 PM »
I would avoid AN completely if possible. It's just not meant for that pressure. Double flare everywhere is a must. Aluminum is just too soft on the fittings.

Second the quality flare tool. I used a cheap one prior and for a couple lines it's fine. For a project like yours get a quality unit that can be held in a vise.
94 BB Sleeved gen IV LS7, MS3ProU with TC, RONIN 8.8 and LT's with custom 3.5"single to VAREX muffler.

Offline paul_3rdgen

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Re: 4 channel ABS
« Reply #97 on: February 22, 2021, 06:36:19 PM »
Not to say your wrong but I canít see why AN fittings wouldnít work.  Thatís basically what all flex brake line fittings are.  Iím thinking a combination of different things to make a clean and serviceable setup.  Yes safety first, and I truly appreciate all the feedback.  It helps get things done right the first time. 


https://www.hotrod.com/articles/selecting-installing-brake-system-components-proper-plumbing-pointers/

Found this article. 

These two pics explain what Iím trying to do






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93 RX7 R1 500rwhp
LS2, H/C combo... ARE drysump
Race Logic traction Control and 4 wheel Stoptech BBK
3.73 gears installed in the stock diff  :o

Offline digitalsolo

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Re: 4 channel ABS
« Reply #98 on: February 22, 2021, 06:47:46 PM »
I have bunches of AN lines in my braking system.  Cunifer lines and steel fittings, 37* flare with steel tube nuts.   Never had an issue and they were sold by Russell as brake line parts.

I like steel fittings as it helps set the flare on the line when I torque them down.
Blake MF'ing McBride
1988 Mazda RX7 - Turbo LS1/T56/ProEFI/8.8/Not Slow...   sold.
1965 Mustang Coupe - TT Coyote, TR6060, modern brakes/suspension...  project car
2016 BMW 428i xDrive Gran Coupe - Completely stock...ish

Offline Cobranut

Re: 4 channel ABS
« Reply #99 on: February 22, 2021, 10:07:26 PM »
Nothing wrong with steel AN fittings for brakes.  They're all over my race car.
It's the aluminum that can be an issue.
1995 FD, 7.0 Liter stroked LS3, T56, 8.8, Samberg kit.

Offline Exidous

Re: 4 channel ABS
« Reply #100 on: February 23, 2021, 09:55:46 AM »
It's not that it's AN. I would just NEVER use a single flare on brake components. Maybe it's just IMO but all the OE's use double flare. If it's safe enough for them to not get sued into bankruptcy it's what I'll do.
94 BB Sleeved gen IV LS7, MS3ProU with TC, RONIN 8.8 and LT's with custom 3.5"single to VAREX muffler.

Offline paul_3rdgen

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Re: 4 channel ABS
« Reply #101 on: February 23, 2021, 12:45:20 PM »
Iím taking everything into careful consideration.  And Iím probably going to switch to steel bulkhead fittings (AN) no other way to do it cleanly, and steel tube nuts with tube sleeves for all AN connections.  All other connections will be done with double flare as Mazda did it.  This is all custom and do go from exterior to interior there is no easy way other then the bulkhead fittings.  Well no way for me to do it currently, as my machining days ended about 10 years ago.  I might have to use a couple of short flex lines but I will avoid that if I can. 


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93 RX7 R1 500rwhp
LS2, H/C combo... ARE drysump
Race Logic traction Control and 4 wheel Stoptech BBK
3.73 gears installed in the stock diff  :o

Offline Cobranut

Re: 4 channel ABS
« Reply #102 on: February 23, 2021, 05:21:37 PM »
Iím taking everything into careful consideration.  And Iím probably going to switch to steel bulkhead fittings (AN) no other way to do it cleanly, and steel tube nuts with tube sleeves for all AN connections.  All other connections will be done with double flare as Mazda did it.  This is all custom and do go from exterior to interior there is no easy way other then the bulkhead fittings.  Well no way for me to do it currently, as my machining days ended about 10 years ago.  I might have to use a couple of short flex lines but I will avoid that if I can. 


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I don't think a double flare would work for the AN joints anyway, and that type of fitting and sleeve is designed to work with a 37 degree single flare.
Any 45 degree brake flare fittings must be double-flared though, to prevent cracking of the tube at the flare itself.
Good choice going with steel though.  I'd hate to hear any brake failure stories on here, especially with the performance potential of these cars.
1995 FD, 7.0 Liter stroked LS3, T56, 8.8, Samberg kit.

Offline paul_3rdgen

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Re: 4 channel ABS
« Reply #103 on: February 23, 2021, 07:47:08 PM »
I was lucky to borrow a good flaring tool for the 45 degree double flares, Iím purchasing a decent 37 degree tool for the single flare AN fittings and Iím hoping to make it to my favourite hydraulic shop local to me tomorrow to get the steel bulkhead fittings and tube nuts with sleeves.  The guys that own the place are a wealth of knowledge and they will definitely lead me in the right direction. 

Again, I want to do this right and I do appreciate all the input.  And if I can turn this into an easier install kit I will.  I donít mind helping if I can. 


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93 RX7 R1 500rwhp
LS2, H/C combo... ARE drysump
Race Logic traction Control and 4 wheel Stoptech BBK
3.73 gears installed in the stock diff  :o

Offline cholmes

Re: 4 channel ABS
« Reply #104 on: February 24, 2021, 04:14:54 AM »
FWIW, I had a 45* double flared steel brake line crack at the flare on a road race car years ago, had to do a quick double brake pump for every corner to finish the race. Replaced with 37* AN flare, sleeve, tube nut, and fitting, never had another problem, and have used AN stuff on race and street cars ever since with no problems. Definitely never any aluminum lines or fittings in brake systems though.