November 27, 2020, 06:29:03 AM

Author Topic: Ronin 8.8 "Grande" Axles & Hubs - new IRS upgrade  (Read 2513 times)

Offline frijolee

Ronin 8.8 "Grande" Axles & Hubs - new IRS upgrade
« on: February 10, 2020, 03:50:16 AM »
Ronin is launching a new 8.8 axle option that allows use of the giant Ford Explorer outer CVs as well as inners.  We're calling it 8.8 grande...  Development on this one is DONE so we’ll begin taking orders this Friday Feb 14.  We figured some of you might want to tell your gal what you really want for Valentines Day (besides the obvious).  

 

Backstory: To date Ronin has always made the conversion between Ford and Mazda driveline pieces via custom halfshafts that used Ford parts for the inner CV and Mazda for the outer.  The downside of our present approach is that the spline diameter of the Mazda end limits the overall shaft diameter.  FD’s use bigger hub splines than FC but we never really considered the FD CVs to be an upgrade since the halfshaft splines were the same (FC vs FD).  Diameter matters a great deal for splines as it’s the main driver of strength.  Torsional strength is a function of radius to the 4th power (IE a shaft 2x the diameter is 16x as strong) so it's worth fighting for. 

We’re also aware that Mazda outer CV’s are becoming hard to come by, especially in the T2 variety. As such, we’re happy to announce a new Ronin Speedworks new product: custom conversion hubs with shafts to match.   Now you can use any year 2002 to 2010 Ford Explorer shaft as a CV donor for the inner and OUTER parts and therefore not sacrifice your OEM halfshafts.  This of course helps offset the cost of the upgrade as the used Mazda parts are in demand.  Every now and then we also had customers tell us that T2 CVs could be a bitch to disassembly, something that’s not the same for FD or the explorer CVs.  Avoid the headache and get a more heavy duty solution in the meantime.

By the way the key ingredient in upsizing FC hubs was finding a wheel bearing that used the factory OD and width, while running a larger ID so we weren’t compromising wall thickness of the hub when the spline diameter grew.   

   


Note: you still need Ronin specific halfshafts to change the length from an Explorer (otherwise track width doesn’t work out on our cars) and as such the kit will include: 

  • Grande Halfshafts (4340 heat treated axle shafts, Ford splined on both ends and lengths specific to each chassis.
  • SpecificCV boots…  Notably this version of shaft does away with the trilobal adapater ring since we found a boot that has the inner CVs bump features built in.
  • CVspacers, this is just a slight correction to be sure the dust shield on the FordCV has the proper spacing the knuckle.
  • ConversionHubs.  Again heat treated 4340.  These use full length splines to maximize engagement. 
  • New wheelbearings.  These pretty much destroy themselves whenyou press the hub out and it’s better to start fresh regardless.  We’re sourcing top shelf bearings fromTimken.  They're made in the USA and Timken makes good stuff.
  • An option to have us install 2.5” ARP wheel studs (longer than stock).   If you want to install your own that’s cool too and any stud with the common 0.509” knurl should work. 

We plan to sell these in two variations. 

1)     Buy outright.  As a kit this will include: Shafts, Boots, CV spacers, Wheel Bearings, and Hubs.  If you’re already running our 8.8, you can easily flip your existing shafts.  If I were you I wouldn’t even tear them down.  We already offer our 8.8 kits as a mounting kit only so whomever buys these will have an easy entry to the 8.8 game. 
Cost:  $1199 plus the ride

2)     As an option on a new 8.8 kit purchase.  In this case, a version of axles and boots were already included in the base 8.8 kit so you’re really just paying for the extra parts.  This also comes with an advantage that used Explorer shafts are easy/cheap to come by while Mazda shafts have turned into gold (which might be our fault really) and that will offset a good bit of the upgrade. 
Cost:  +$599, ships with the kit

In either case, if desired, we'll add and install ARP studs for $85.  They're a little tricky to support for the press (especially the last couple studs!) so we figured it might help folks out. 

By the way, if you recently purchased an 8.8 kit from us (anything from Jan 1, 2019 until now to draw a clean line) BUT would have preferred these axles…  so long as you’re sending back mint shafts/boots,we’ll swap you out for the bigger stuff and added parts at only the cost of the upgrade option, plus shipping. 

Anyways, you nutters keep pushing the bounds of what these cars can do, yet not everyone wants to spend 2k+ on DSS pro level shafts.  Going our way you get brand new wheel bearings at the same time PLUS a unconditional lifetime warranty that DSS doesn’t offer…  We think this gives us a heck of a Goldilocks option for folks to consider.  All shafts will include the same unconditional lifetime warranty.  However we hope you'll be pulling the front tires on launch before you need to use it.  Going forward, warranty claims on a second broken shaft (base design) will request you upgrade to these.  That keeps you on the road, whooping up on the high dollar guys and proving how potent an RX7 can be.   

Pre-orders goes live on our website this Friday Feb 14..  All parts are in fabrication now however it is pretty big batch so we do have some lead time and the target to start delivering will be early April. 

First 10 orders will get free shipping which will save folks ~$60.   We’ll extend this to include ANY orders placed this Friday Feb 14 if we have more than 10 folks ready to jump in.  The coupon code will be “88grande”

Regards,
Joel & Mike
(for RSW)
LS2 stroker FC, Mandeville big brakes, widebody, etc
Build thread:  http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=1274.0
www.roninspeedworks.com

LargeOrangeFont says: "Joel is right, and I love Joel. But his car sounds like the wrath of God."   ;)

Offline Supe

Re: Ronin 8.8 "Grande" Axles & Hubs - new IRS upgrade
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2020, 09:28:46 AM »
Will definitely be going this route when I lose my GKN outers.  Great to see an alternative to the DSS Porsche option!

Offline Ls2swap

Re: Ronin 8.8 "Grande" Axles & Hubs - new IRS upgrade
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2020, 04:35:49 PM »
Is there going to be an option for those that want to order your new subframe and trans mount with the 8.8 grande stuff?
Basically I'm starting with nothing and will be buying the complete mount kit with the 8.8 grande option. I would go head and order the 8.8 grande full subframe kit and be waiting on your subframe and trans mount. Since I will not need the stock rear diff mount.

Offline nkuhajda

Re: Ronin 8.8 "Grande" Axles & Hubs - new IRS upgrade
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2020, 11:08:46 PM »
Hell yeah! Looks like it was worth the wait!

Offline frijolee

Re: Ronin 8.8 "Grande" Axles & Hubs - new IRS upgrade
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2020, 11:47:22 PM »
Is there going to be an option for those that want to order your new subframe and trans mount with the 8.8 grande stuff?
Basically I'm starting with nothing and will be buying the complete mount kit with the 8.8 grande option. I would go head and order the 8.8 grande full subframe kit and be waiting on your subframe and trans mount. Since I will not need the stock rear diff mount.

Yes we're planning to set this up as an option.  We let folks add an 8.8 to the Samberg subframe when we were selling those.  This will just mean you get to pick which 8.8 you want, standard or grande.
LS2 stroker FC, Mandeville big brakes, widebody, etc
Build thread:  http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=1274.0
www.roninspeedworks.com

LargeOrangeFont says: "Joel is right, and I love Joel. But his car sounds like the wrath of God."   ;)

Offline paul_3rdgen

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Re: Ronin 8.8 "Grande" Axles & Hubs - new IRS upgrade
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2020, 12:51:02 PM »
This opens up a question.... how much power will the standard 8.8 kit handle?  I upgraded everything inside the diff, the only thing that I’m worried about is the axles supplied with your kit.  I had 300m chromoly axles with my Fd diff and they were a larger diameter then the ones that come with your kit. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
93 RX7 R1 500rwhp
LS2, H/C combo... ARE drysump
Race Logic traction Control and 4 wheel Stoptech BBK
3.73 gears installed in the stock diff  :o

Offline frijolee

Re: Ronin 8.8 "Grande" Axles & Hubs - new IRS upgrade
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2020, 01:35:54 PM »
This opens up a question.... how much power will the standard 8.8 kit handle?  I upgraded everything inside the diff, the only thing that I’m worried about is the axles supplied with your kit.  I had 300m chromoly axles with my Fd diff and they were a larger diameter then the ones that come with your kit. 

That's a hard question.  I pretty much think that any who claims a rated power level is blowing marketing smoke.  There's too many factors specific to how that power gets transmitted through the driveline.  As far as what our customers tell us, we know of quite a few folks knocking on 8s so we expect to be into the 8s handily with these...  However, we've also have had a couple breaks at power levels they shouldn't have (one was a heat treat issue, the other I'm thinking of I still I don't know).  I can say that wheel hop is always bad news and I've seen data that suggests it can be an impact factor of as much as 3x, but other than that, how your specific car shocks the driveline seems to make a pretty significant difference in pushing the envelope.

The FD is limited by the CV to shaft spline diameter.  If you change the CVs to that which uses a larger spline you can up size diameter (which is exactly what we're doing now).  There are some folks who run "larger diameter" shafts but then neck down to the splines.  This is dumb.  It just creates a stress riser at the at the splines and defines the failure point.  Ironically, many of the OEM explorer axles are made this way.  I'm assuming it's a combination of looking beefy on the exposed shaft and saving a few bucks in machining time.  I've never seen a DSS axle torn down to know what they do for sure.

LS2 stroker FC, Mandeville big brakes, widebody, etc
Build thread:  http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=1274.0
www.roninspeedworks.com

LargeOrangeFont says: "Joel is right, and I love Joel. But his car sounds like the wrath of God."   ;)

Offline frijolee

Re: Ronin 8.8 "Grande" Axles & Hubs - new IRS upgrade
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2020, 03:37:44 AM »
Pre-orders are live:

FC Grande axle kit (see trade in option on this page if desired):
http://www.roninspeedworks.net/index.php?route=product/product&path=59&product_id=108

FC 8.8 complete (now w/ Grande upgrade options)
http://www.roninspeedworks.net/index.php?route=product/product&path=59&product_id=104

FD Grande axle kit (trade in option here too)
http://www.roninspeedworks.net/index.php?route=product/product&path=59&product_id=109

FD 8.8 complete (now w/ Grande upgrade options)
http://www.roninspeedworks.net/index.php?route=product/product&path=59&product_id=88

Reminder: free shipping to the first 10 orders and/or ANY Grande order placed tomorrow Feb 14...  Coupon code "88grande"
LS2 stroker FC, Mandeville big brakes, widebody, etc
Build thread:  http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=1274.0
www.roninspeedworks.com

LargeOrangeFont says: "Joel is right, and I love Joel. But his car sounds like the wrath of God."   ;)

Offline nkuhajda

Re: Ronin 8.8 "Grande" Axles & Hubs - new IRS upgrade
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2020, 08:11:30 AM »
During checkout I'm getting an error that no shipping options are available - am I missing something?

Offline fastfalcon94

Re: Ronin 8.8 "Grande" Axles & Hubs - new IRS upgrade
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2020, 08:42:30 AM »
Once again you are making me regret past purchases:) At what power level do the FD outers start to break? I've had your 8.8/FD hybrid axle for 4 years and about 1000 miles on my stock LS2. It's been fine but I haven't really pushed the car hard.

Offline MoparX

Re: Ronin 8.8 "Grande" Axles & Hubs - new IRS upgrade
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2020, 11:41:21 AM »
Once again you are making me regret past purchases:) At what power level do the FD outers start to break? I've had your 8.8/FD hybrid axle for 4 years and about 1000 miles on my stock LS2. It's been fine but I haven't really pushed the car hard.


You’ll be fine.   I’m one of the guys knocking on 8’s, and my car (FC) uses FD outers with Ronin’s standard FC 8.8 axles.  I broke an FC outer and upgraded to FD outers and haven’t broken one.   The new kit would good insurance but don’t think that the standard axles, or FD outers, are weak because they’re not.   
Well, it used to be MOPAR powered...............

Offline MoparX

Re: Ronin 8.8 "Grande" Axles & Hubs - new IRS upgrade
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2020, 11:45:53 AM »
Will definitely be going this route when I lose my GKN outers.  Great to see an alternative to the DSS Porsche option!

Any particular reason you don’t care for them, other than price?  Just curious.
Well, it used to be MOPAR powered...............

Offline MoparX

Re: Ronin 8.8 "Grande" Axles & Hubs - new IRS upgrade
« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2020, 11:51:25 AM »
What is the diameter of the outer splined shaft, vs fc and fd stuff? 
Well, it used to be MOPAR powered...............

Offline frijolee

Re: Ronin 8.8 "Grande" Axles & Hubs - new IRS upgrade
« Reply #13 on: February 14, 2020, 02:38:27 PM »
What is the diameter of the outer splined shaft, vs fc and fd stuff? 

I don't have that in front of me but we're estimating these to be 40-50% stronger.  The FD CV is kinda weird in that its splines to the hub were upsized, but splines to the shaft were the same as FC which has hub splines that are ~3mm smaller (at least that was the bearing ID difference).  This kit is intended as margin for the folks pushing it and to give us options as the Mazda CV's get rare.  Standard should be fine for a great many folks.
LS2 stroker FC, Mandeville big brakes, widebody, etc
Build thread:  http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=1274.0
www.roninspeedworks.com

LargeOrangeFont says: "Joel is right, and I love Joel. But his car sounds like the wrath of God."   ;)

Offline wickedrx7

Re: Ronin 8.8 "Grande" Axles & Hubs - new IRS upgrade
« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2020, 03:20:48 PM »
Finally! You released a product that I don’t need. At least for now....

Great product BTW.

Side question, how much of this stuff are you marketing to the rotary guys? I would think this rear end stuff would be pretty desirable for some of the higher HP guys.

1993 Touring, 2012 L99, T-56, Ronnin 8.8, Ohlins, Speedhut, Samberg and lots of custom parts
Build Thread - http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=19354.0
Pictures - www.flikr.com/wickedrx7