June 06, 2020, 04:34:31 AM

Author Topic: FD LSx swap subframe - RONIN's design  (Read 11245 times)

Offline dtsan

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Re: FD LSx swap subframe - RONIN's design
« Reply #120 on: May 14, 2020, 09:19:44 AM »
Joel you are a good man!

Offline JustJewIt

Re: FD LSx swap subframe - RONIN's design
« Reply #121 on: May 14, 2020, 09:35:05 AM »
Adding myself to the list. Looking forward to seeing the finished product Joel.

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Offline frijolee

Re: FD LSx swap subframe - RONIN's design
« Reply #122 on: May 16, 2020, 05:46:16 AM »
Hey y'all...  Spent my last couple evenings working on the subframe listings and realized we haven't talked through the details on Ronin’s plan to address bump steer correction so I wanted to give a folks a preview of that.

As we noted in testing, the factory FD exhibits a great deal of bump steer from the factory.  Evidence from testing linked here: https://youtu.be/tN4JNP2yN6c in case you missed it.  It certainly proves that Sikky's claims about the magic of the FD steering rack placement are pretty much crap.  However, it also left us scratching our heads a bit about where exactly folks might want to dial in their kits to.  Would folks want it closer to racecar theoretically perfect, or do folks actually like some lively but less stable handling like that Mazda used?

It's such a call on preference that at least to launch with we decided to give folks full adjust-ability.  We're giving you both the ability to shim the steering rack since you'll want this close to your oil pan--1/8 to 3/16" clear is a good target--and including adjustable Speedway Motors spindles. 



It generally installs like this (pic from Speedway’s website, we’re using a female rod end)




One twist though...  One of the few complaints about adjusting bump steer by shifting the ball joint lower (rod end sphericals in this case) is that it puts more load into the spindles.  See how much cantilever is possible in the pics above?  For rx7 applications most folks will cut these down but still… A few folks have managed to bend spindles--both Samberg and Speedway--in off track adventures.  As such, in addition to the pieces of a bump steer kit folks are used to we're also including a Ronin exclusive support piece.  This effectively slides over the spindle hex and is tightened only snug tight.  We don't want to unload the taper but it gives a nice wide base supporting the bending load as it enters in the steering knuckle.

We'll get pictures of the real deal when it comes off the CNC next week but this is the idea.



If your rod end is choked up high enough on the spindle that the support doesn’t fit vs where the tie rod wants to be, then the added bending is small enough that you don’t need the support.  Make sense?

So the full bump steer kit will include:

-2x steering rack interface pieces
-8x steering rack spacers (1/8” each, so up to ” rack motion possible)
-2x Mazda tie rods to rod end adapterr pieces (custom machined)
-2x Aurora rod ends (only brand name, quality bearings for us)
-2x Speedway Motors “pinto” steering rack spindles (w/ nut and lock nut to locate the rod end)
-2x Ronin spindle supports w/ 2x locking jam nuts.

Rack interface:


Rack spacer:


Tie Rod to Rod End Adaptors:


Like I said, apologies that we don’t have final pics yet, however our test parts were much rougher so the CAD is closer to the end product all things considered.

So how do you adjust bump steer?  You can track down a gauge and measure via a dial indicator.  You can also do a simple DIY version with a laser pointer.


Given all that, anything else we can do to help you all in dialing in bump steer?  I’ve even debated including an inexpensive laser pointer but it seems there are so many ways to approach this that it might be simpler to leave it open for you guys to dial in via your method of choice.

Thoughts?
-Joel Payne
(for RSW)
« Last Edit: May 16, 2020, 02:28:55 PM by frijolee »
LS2 stroker FC, Mandeville big brakes, widebody, etc
Build thread:  http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=1274.0
www.roninspeedworks.com

LargeOrangeFont says: "Joel is right, and I love Joel. But his car sounds like the wrath of God."   ;)

Offline digitalsolo

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Re: FD LSx swap subframe - RONIN's design
« Reply #123 on: May 16, 2020, 09:05:10 AM »
...will you sell me a set of those bump steer spacer bracers?     I have those and need those....   :)
Blake MF'ing McBride
1988 Mazda RX7 - Turbo LS1/T56/ProEFI/8.8/Not Slow...   sold.
1965 Mustang Coupe - TT Coyote, TR6060, modern brakes/suspension...  project car
2016 BMW 428i xDrive Gran Coupe - Completely stock...ish

Offline MerkLs2

Re: FD LSx swap subframe - RONIN's design
« Reply #124 on: May 16, 2020, 12:32:22 PM »
I'm just super looking forward to this release with each update, everything looks outstanding!
93 FD 6.0 LSx T56 Magnum Brilliant Black

Offline Exidous

Re: FD LSx swap subframe - RONIN's design
« Reply #125 on: May 16, 2020, 03:50:31 PM »
The collar is a good idea. I think there is a minimum length that you could run and folks could add spacers rather than the jam nut. The whole thing being under tension would probably increase the strength.
94 BB Sleeved gen IV LS7, MS3ProU with TC, RONIN 8.8 and LT's with custom 3.5"single to VAREX muffler.

Offline tai-lun

Re: FD LSx swap subframe - RONIN's design
« Reply #126 on: May 16, 2020, 08:20:13 PM »
I'm just super looking forward to this release with each update, everything looks outstanding!

+1 stoked for all the work you guys are putting into this. I do appreciate a bit of play as mentioned with now Mazda put some slack into things, our chassis' are not brand new and some have some flex in them from years of use or like mine may have less tolerances due to increased rigidity from cages and braces. Just my .02
Tai - 93 LS2 Ronin Widebody FD
Build Thread: https://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=9172.150

Offline frijolee

Re: FD LSx swap subframe - RONIN's design
« Reply #127 on: May 16, 2020, 11:06:17 PM »
The collar is a good idea. I think there is a minimum length that you could run and folks could add spacers rather than the jam nut. The whole thing being under tension would probably increase the strength.

Gotta be a little careful here.  Normally when folks stack shims you are clamping against the hex shoulder of the spindle.  That's fine.  However the support doesn't do that, it slides over the hex so any clamp load on it is pressing against the arm of the knuckle and trying to loosen the taper.   At the same time the nut holding the taper tight from the topside is the smaller of the two and can be overpowered...  At which point the taper slips and predictable steering goes to hell, not what we want.

This is why it's going to be critical at the support peice only be snug tight and that the tie rod only be clamped between two independent nuts to not transmit further load into the support.  If you don't run the support piece then going with stacked shims is fine.

I actually debated for a while whether the potential of screwing up the install was too high to offer the support bit.  That said, done right, it should be a notable improvement, so the install instructions are going to have to be strongly worded and very clear.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2020, 02:05:57 AM by frijolee »
LS2 stroker FC, Mandeville big brakes, widebody, etc
Build thread:  http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=1274.0
www.roninspeedworks.com

LargeOrangeFont says: "Joel is right, and I love Joel. But his car sounds like the wrath of God."   ;)

Offline frijolee

Re: FD LSx swap subframe - RONIN's design
« Reply #128 on: May 19, 2020, 05:40:19 AM »
Still working on some support pieces (trans mounts and steering) but things are coming along nicely...   :secret:



-Joel

Is it janky to post the listings without finished pics of all the support bits?  The temptation is real, but we can't exactly ship until things are all ready regardless.
LS2 stroker FC, Mandeville big brakes, widebody, etc
Build thread:  http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=1274.0
www.roninspeedworks.com

LargeOrangeFont says: "Joel is right, and I love Joel. But his car sounds like the wrath of God."   ;)

Offline Turbotronic

Re: FD LSx swap subframe - RONIN's design
« Reply #129 on: May 19, 2020, 06:34:54 AM »
Still working on some support pieces (trans mounts and steering) but things are coming along nicely...   :secret:



-Joel

Is it janky to post the listings without finished pics of all the support bits?  The temptation is real, but we can't exactly ship until things are all ready regardless.

If paying now means you'll feel obligated to send me a kit as soon as possible; sure, I'll pay now.

Offline Daniel1286

Re: FD LSx swap subframe - RONIN's design
« Reply #130 on: May 19, 2020, 07:56:48 AM »
I'm willing to pay now

Offline MerkLs2

Re: FD LSx swap subframe - RONIN's design
« Reply #131 on: May 19, 2020, 08:05:19 AM »
I'm good to pay now as well.
93 FD 6.0 LSx T56 Magnum Brilliant Black

Offline All Sevens

Re: FD LSx swap subframe - RONIN's design
« Reply #132 on: May 19, 2020, 08:30:43 AM »
This is just too good.  Not sure if the list is relevant anymore, but I am ready to throw my setup in the trash and get this swapped in.

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Offline Kewin

Re: FD LSx swap subframe - RONIN's design
« Reply #133 on: May 19, 2020, 06:35:36 PM »
1. Turbotronic
2. dtsan
3. Tictakman
4. Herblenny
5. osburn383
6. Daniel1286
7. CKxx
8. Ls2swap
9. MerkLs2
10. Suprakid95
11. Exidous
12. fd3sls3
13. Tai-Lun
14. Venom13132
15. dankhank
16. rc80
17. markfluko
18. Dd2170
19. AHarada
20. Twiztid
21. koricanboy
22. 04G35S
23. iStubz
24. JDub014
25. jeffp5 (depending on price)
26. SEV8N
27. vtn86
28. Joel
29. JustJewIt
30. All Sevens
31. Kewin

Offline Herblenny

Re: FD LSx swap subframe - RONIN's design
« Reply #134 on: May 21, 2020, 06:36:10 PM »
I'm starting to source another LS3. Excited to see progress.