October 21, 2018, 03:11:26 PM

Author Topic: Strengthening the Alignment rings  (Read 1365 times)

Offline Esser

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Strengthening the Alignment rings
« on: July 13, 2017, 10:46:16 AM »
Ronin,

I have seen some of sambergs welds fail on the spot welds that hold the alignment ring. Would it be too much to ask for some additoinal welding on these parts before powdercoating? I'm sure it could partially be user error, but I was going to order a kit today and wanted to see if this could be added and maybe standardized on your kits.

Picture attached.

Offline markfluko

Re: Strengthening the Alignment rings
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2017, 04:20:03 PM »
I'm obviously not Ronin and can't speak on their behalf, but there really shouldn't be any significant load on those rings. How did this happen? Was the car not on slick plates? Trying to align it with it on the ground?

I've seen my share of swapped FD's going back to the Samberg V1 frame and never seen those fail. I've seen many bolts crap out though.

I'm wondering if it was because the bolts were stuck on one side of the slot path and not tracking along the slot properly and the user got pissed and just really started cranking on them...Or something to that effect.  If you need replacement bolts I still have some here http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=25445.0

Come to think of it, the picture of the failure could be because it WAS a V1 subframe which only had alignment rings on one side which puts all the stress on the side with the bolt head... paired with worn out bolts, then you have a recipe to put a decent load on the rings.

This really shouldn't be an issue on the V2 subframes though IMO.

Offline Esser

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Re: Strengthening the Alignment rings
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2017, 04:57:07 PM »
I'm obviously not Ronin and can't speak on their behalf, but there really shouldn't be any significant load on those rings. How did this happen? Was the car not on slick plates? Trying to align it with it on the ground?

I've seen my share of swapped FD's going back to the Samberg V1 frame and never seen those fail. I've seen many bolts crap out though.

I'm wondering if it was because the bolts were stuck on one side of the slot path and not tracking along the slot properly and the user got pissed and just really started cranking on them...Or something to that effect.  If you need replacement bolts I still have some here http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=25445.0

Come to think of it, the picture of the failure could be because it WAS a V1 subframe which only had alignment rings on one side which puts all the stress on the side with the bolt head... paired with worn out bolts, then you have a recipe to put a decent load on the rings.

This really shouldn't be an issue on the V2 subframes though IMO.

You are correct, there shouldn't be much load on there. However I have still seen a few failures here on the forum and on the fb page.

That picture is not of mine, but is a member who posted about it. Said he started driving odd and found that issue. Here is another photo of the V2 failure.

Offline 65imp

Re: Strengthening the Alignment rings
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2017, 02:31:28 PM »
We generally leave these as we get them from Justin Samberg.  But if an individual has concern about these spots I would gladly bust out the TIG and add some additional weld.  Just send us a note when you make an order and we can hep ya out. 
absolute power corrupts absolutely  :yay:
93 FD widebody - destroked
69 Suburban - positive manifold pressure
65 Impala - 5.7
59 cad  - WIP
53 spartan - shed status

Offline frijolee

Re: Strengthening the Alignment rings
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2017, 03:51:41 PM »
Have you reached out to Samberg to ask him to do this?  As Mike noted, we try to help folks with special requests but this one seems like you'd want to take it to the source...

-Joel
LS2 stroker FC, Mandeville big brakes, widebody, etc
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www.roninspeedworks.com

LargeOrangeFont says: "Joel is right, and I love Joel. But his car sounds like the wrath of God."   ;)

Offline 4packet

Re: Strengthening the Alignment rings
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2017, 02:08:44 PM »
Is the issue more that the cams slip when on the road which then puts load on the rings?

Mine have moved countless times (used hard on track tyres).

The overlap between the cam and the subframe is poor on one side (bolt is too close to the edge of the cam) if running a remotely streetable alignment. This bends/wears the subframe compounding the issue.

My advice would also be not to powdercoat/paint the friction surfaces and be careful not to allow any poly bush grease to get between them during assembly. I've since stripped the powdercoat and marked the surface with a hammer and chisel. So far it's not moved since. I always paint mark after alignment so I can check for movement regularly and at the track have had to use these marks to return to a reasonable position. 

Offline tai-lun

Re: Strengthening the Alignment rings
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2017, 04:51:08 PM »
That picture of the V2 weld break is from my car.

I drive the car with pretty sticky tires for the most part when it is on the road and push it as much as most here I am sure do. The slip happens over time now and I have to get the car re-aligned more often. If there were a few more welds it would probably be okay, but paint and powder coat which most of us do does at that small thickness that is probably putting added pressure during alignment times.

Either just a hair of additional space needs to be made to make up for the paint or powder that will be going on, or a different non-rusting coating or material would have to be used. I've tried enough subframes that the Sikky kit was under consideration for a bit as I could go back to OEM bolts and less to think about.
Tai - 93 LS2 Ronin Widebody FD - rebuild time with ITB's soon... :banghead:
Build Thread: http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=9172.0

Offline Esser

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Re: Strengthening the Alignment rings
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2017, 04:11:22 PM »
Thanks for the replies.

I just ordered a kit today. If you could spit some more welds on there before powdercoating, that would be awesome.

Otherwise no biggie.

Thanks!

Offline justinsamberg

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Re: Strengthening the Alignment rings
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2017, 09:43:10 PM »
The pictures above are subframes that were missing some welds. Those were built along time ago when we didn't weld the bottom of the rings. The one pictured first looks like it only has tacks holding the ring on. That one for sure would fail. I think we need to look them over more carefully before we send them out but the customer also needs look them over before installing.
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Offline Esser

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Re: Strengthening the Alignment rings
« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2017, 08:17:59 AM »
Thanks for adding some to mine.... Looks great!
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Offline Cobranut

Re: Strengthening the Alignment rings
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2017, 09:26:56 PM »
Those failed ones look to be welded just like mine.  I'll have to hit those with the TIG, once I learn to weld worth a darn with it.  :-[
1995 FD, 7.0 Liter stroked LS3, T56, 8.8, Samberg kit.

Offline Skeltic

Re: Strengthening the Alignment rings
« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2017, 09:43:46 PM »
samberg is  a  shit  welder
"You can sleep in your car, but you can't race your house."