August 25, 2019, 03:24:36 AM

Author Topic: XJ Frame Stiffeners (or how to waste time on side projects)  (Read 10269 times)

Offline freeskier7791

Re: XJ Frame Stiffeners (or how to waste time on side projects)
« Reply #90 on: July 16, 2019, 01:06:41 PM »
That's awesome Joel.  And the locals taste in wheels and tires looks just like the average "yee yee" truck here in NC lol

Offline kinger

Re: XJ Frame Stiffeners (or how to waste time on side projects)
« Reply #91 on: July 17, 2019, 12:51:41 PM »
First off amazing fab on the flares, my first thought was you should let me make them in volume and sell to all jeep owners LOL  The bushwackers flapping in the wind, half attached, on 90% of the ones I see... drive me nuts.  :) 

2nd - I think you were targeted for sure and it stinks.  Great that you have a judge willing to be rational though.  My experience with small town/villages is the cops and judges have to live in the same community and run in similar circles so that would never happen here. 

I think its her 'duty' to say they apply the law equally but I doubt that.  Also smart to bite your tongue even though the pictures of the ones IN THE COURTHOUSE parking lot would have been hilarious to show her (especially if you have a police car in the background or something) but would't have helped you I am sure, she can't control the officers in the field. 

Lastly love how you write your posts, great distraction on my lunch break! 
93 Touring, 6.2L, 415/425 Whp/Wtq, 8.8, samberg everything, AC, PS, TC, Cruise, LED Tails, HID head lights, immaculate interior and paint.

Offline frijolee

Re: XJ Frame Stiffeners (or how to waste time on side projects)
« Reply #92 on: August 10, 2019, 02:39:02 AM »
Well, ended up doing extended wheels studs, but it wasn’t nearly as straightforward as I’d hoped.

Had some friends in town so I took them up on a day trip into the hills and got a little dirty.





 
Rental JL did fine, but if you’re looking to buy one of these: go Rubicon.  No lockers on the Sport model wasn’t great.  It was a little crazy watching the brakes auto apply corner by corner and the power transfer back and forth back between wheels as traction control tries to help out, but it’s still not the right setup though.

Anyways, we came down the hill and we’re headed back into town after 20 miles of dirt road and suddenly I realize I’m pulling hard right ever time I’m on the brakes.  We pause to be sure I didn’t rupture a brake line or have a tire going flat, but nothing I can see.  Triple check I’m not in 4wd by rolling forward and back a few times.  Nothing obvious.  Keep driving.

About a mile from my house I start smelling brakes.  Get ‘er home hop out and I’m smelling brakes strongly on the left front.  Sure enough, that corner is cooking and 600 degrees hotter than the others.




Apparently I totally faded front left which is why it was pulling right.

Pull it apart and try to drive the caliper pistons in (this is a Teves WJ setup by the way).  One piston slides smoothly the other is frozen and barely moving.  Well, guess I found the issue.  I call around to see if I can find a rebuild kit (no), but the Napa in town does have rebuilt calipers.  Since these were just junkyard parts I decide to do both sides and upgrade the later WJ Akebonos (believe 2002 is the split so I had them spec calipers for an 04 and that was right).

Should just bolt on right?




Wrong.  I’m running 15” wheels.  Turns out the Akebonos have just enough extra meat in the caliper body that I’m rubbing when I wasn’t prior.  Bah.  Can’t even take them back and stick with Teves now since I marred the calipers.




I did check fitment as I started the install process, but it seems I had just enough slack in my wheel stud holes that I fooled myself.  Once I torqued the wheels it pulled the rim into contact, actually squeezed the caliper floating part against the rotor too.  See rub marks on the rotor perimeter.


 

I only moved a few feet before I realizing it was wrong.  B’ah!!  Looks like it’s time for the longer wheel studs after all.  While I could shave on the body of the Akebono’s I really wasn’t into it so that means going back to a bit more wheel spacer.  That’s ok.  I wanted to shove my tires out to the limits of the new fender flares anyways.

So digging into the WJ spec studs (thanks for the references Nimrod!) these studs claim they use a 0.627” knurl.  In measuring my parts, I was finding numbers in the 0.620 to 0.624 range but maybe they compressed as bit on install.  Note, this is a little confusing since my WJ conversion should be using TJ unit bearings and TJ wheel studs are 0.615” knurl and a bit under 1.5” long.  My studs are 1 15/16” long and seem to match WJ specs.  That means I’m not 100% sure what wheel studs I was starting with.  Maybe it’s an aftermarket unit bearing thing or maybe it’s a difference in TJ years for the specs I was checking…  Not sure.

Either way, I didn’t find anything off the shelf easily available in a 0.627” and I wanted studs closer to the 3” range.  I ended up buying 4 sets of ARP 100-7703.https://www.summitracing.com/parts/arp-100-7703

Figured the 0.625” knurl was close enough, shoulder length was right, and they’re 1/2-20 pitch by 3.5” under head length.

Old stud knocked out ok, but I did need to trim my welded on knuckle spacer from the original WJ conversion.  Note the OEM style studs are BARELY are removable vs the body of the unit bearing.




The new ones won’t go back in.  The head is just a bit bigger and hangs up in pretty much the same place the old studs rub on removal.




In looking at the clearances closer this interference actually occurs for two reason.  The head of the stud is slightly large diameter but it also maters that the splined knurl on the ARPs is full length.  That means they have to be inserted straighter with more of the head portion protruding.  That also drives the head toward the unit bearing shell which is tapering outward.



I debated disassembling the unit bearings since it seems likely the studs were originally pressed into the hub bare.  That said, from what I’ve read, unit bearings aren’t intended as serviceable items and if you’re crooked at all in the attempt to press the thing apart you destroy the bearing.  Mine are less than a year old so I wasn’t excited about that.

Eventually—though after some careful eyeballing—I decided to suck it up and just shave on my brand new wheel studs.




Shaved bits were painted for rust avoidance.  The good news is I was able to keep at least part of the shoulder all the way around so they still clamp down evenly.
LS2 stroker FC, Mandeville big brakes, widebody, etc
Build thread:  http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=1274.0
www.roninspeedworks.com

LargeOrangeFont says: "Joel is right, and I love Joel. But his car sounds like the wrath of God."   ;)

Offline digitalsolo

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Re: XJ Frame Stiffeners (or how to waste time on side projects)
« Reply #93 on: August 10, 2019, 09:28:41 AM »
Ahhh, the joys of custom, combined with caring about doing it correctly.   Nice work Joel!
Blake MF'ing McBride
1988 Mazda RX7 - Turbo LS1/T56/ProEFI/8.8/Not Slow...   sold.
1965 Mustang Coupe - TT Coyote, TR6060, modern brakes/suspension...  project car
2016 BMW 428i xDrive Gran Coupe - Completely stock...ish

Offline frijolee

Re: XJ Frame Stiffeners (or how to waste time on side projects)
« Reply #94 on: August 10, 2019, 03:47:25 PM »
Install from here wasn’t too bad, albeit HOT DAMN that took some gusto to pull these home.  I used a 19 mm impact socket as my spacer.






It works, but I had an 1,000 ft lb impact gun set on kill and it still took a bit.  Definitely need to keep everything well lubed with antiseize for this job.  Note shown, but I also used a 1/2” fender washer to protect the hub after the first hole when I noticed it slightly marring.  It kinda burnished some of the gold off, but the integrity of the threads is sound.

Sacrificial lug nut was sacrificed.  I had to run a 1/2-20 tap through this after almost every stud was set and after every pull the nut was so hot as to barely be touchable.




Wheel spacers were something I had lying around for my Rx7 5x4.5 and 1” thick.  It was originally the style with its own lugs but I’m not really into that if I can avoid it.   I did have to open up the bores a bit but thankfully my baby lathe was just big enough.






Much better.




And it all clears.  I did have to cut off the ends of my lug nuts to turn them in into open end lugs and had to re-tap those as well.  Having a little gold peeking out is gangster, right?

LS2 stroker FC, Mandeville big brakes, widebody, etc
Build thread:  http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=1274.0
www.roninspeedworks.com

LargeOrangeFont says: "Joel is right, and I love Joel. But his car sounds like the wrath of God."   ;)

Offline freeskier7791

Re: XJ Frame Stiffeners (or how to waste time on side projects)
« Reply #95 on: August 13, 2019, 07:21:35 AM »
changing wheel studs is literally the worst.  I always destroy a lug nut and I am always worried about if the force to pull the studs in is actually ruining them.  Like you I always have to chase the threads.

Offline cholmes

Re: XJ Frame Stiffeners (or how to waste time on side projects)
« Reply #96 on: August 13, 2019, 01:36:56 PM »
Can't tell from photos whether you used anti-seize on the knurls of the studs. I've found that doing so really helps with getting the studs in place and eliminates galling between the knurl and the hub. The studs stay in place fine, in fact, the heads of the studs seem to seat more firmly against the hub than they do when installed dry. Just a thought.

Offline frijolee

Re: XJ Frame Stiffeners (or how to waste time on side projects)
« Reply #97 on: August 13, 2019, 03:56:59 PM »
Can't tell from photos whether you used anti-seize on the knurls of the studs. I've found that doing so really helps with getting the studs in place and eliminates galling between the knurl and the hub. The studs stay in place fine, in fact, the heads of the studs seem to seat more firmly against the hub than they do when installed dry. Just a thought.

Good tip.  I went dry on the splines but after having seen how hard the first one was, I probably should have on the others.
LS2 stroker FC, Mandeville big brakes, widebody, etc
Build thread:  http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=1274.0
www.roninspeedworks.com

LargeOrangeFont says: "Joel is right, and I love Joel. But his car sounds like the wrath of God."   ;)