October 22, 2019, 02:31:44 PM

Author Topic: Blake's 1965 Mustang Project  (Read 185700 times)

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Re: Blake's 1965 Mustang Project
« Reply #2025 on: August 04, 2019, 11:04:03 PM »
So...   turns out none of the digital inputs on my AEM Infinity are currently reading.   I don't know why.   Re-validated wiring today...  it's correct.   Reapplied firmware and tested everything, still nothing.    I suppose both of my cam sensors and my flex sensor are all bad, but...  that seems unlikely.   Emailed AEM.    This is frustrating.

Car runs fine with no intake cam sensors, but I can't really utilize the VVT effectively on them.   The exhaust cams are on VR sensors (as is the crank) and work fine.
Blake MF'ing McBride
1988 Mazda RX7 - Turbo LS1/T56/ProEFI/8.8/Not Slow...   sold.
1965 Mustang Coupe - TT Coyote, TR6060, modern brakes/suspension...  project car
2016 BMW 428i xDrive Gran Coupe - Completely stock...ish

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Re: Blake's 1965 Mustang Project
« Reply #2026 on: August 07, 2019, 02:44:02 PM »
Okay, so an update on the sensor issues.

I've replaced the flex fuel sensor with a brand new one (borrowed from BeasTT) and no change.  I did notice that I see some random frequency data when the fuel pumps spin up and the sensor is connected.   As soon as the car starts, that data is gone.   Interesting...   That brings me to my next theory:  the long run of wiring from front/rear is getting noise and breaking the signal somehow.    The sensor is separately grounded (as it is supposed to be) so it's not a ground issue (at least not directly).    I'm going to do a few things to try and sort this:

1.  Running a new ground from the battery directly to the "ground bus bar" for my ECU/sensors/etc. in the dash.   Right now each grounds to the chassis with a welded stud.   That should be fine (and testing shows no potential between them) but hey, it can't hurt anything.
2.  Going to connect the flex fuel sensor directly to the ECU with a short lead.    This will tell me if I'm getting noise/loss/etc. in the path.
3.  This isn't related, but I'm going to run a new lead to the trunk (2-3 actually) for staging my fuel pumps to drop fuel temperatures.   I'm also replacing my giant 450lph lift pump with a 190lph (which should be plenty for a lift pump).

That's the fuel system side.     I'm hopeful that the flex will start working.   If it doesn't, I'll try it on another digital input.    AEM did get me some info, namely that each digital input is its own transistor, so even killing one shouldn't hurt the others.

Next up, cam sensors.   Specifically intake cam sensors.   My driver side works now.   I have no idea why it works.   I unplugged it, poked around at it a bit, and plugged it back in, and boom.  Works.   I'd blame a harness problem, but I had unplugged it before, tested continuity, voltage, etc.  It was fine.  Plugged it in, no workie.   Did it again looking at other stuff, plugged it in and now it works every time.   Weird....

Passenger side harness reads proper, but there is no data in the ECU.   I need an oscilloscope to test it further, so for now I'm going to get both banks to read off the driver side sensor to get VVT feedback working (the other 3 cams read within .1* of each other, so I feel comfortable cloning both intakes for now).   I'll get it scoped at some point and replace the sensor if I have to, though that requires pulling the engine forward a few inches because it's right against the firewall.  :(    No fun.

Hopefully I can get flex working, and hopefully the cam sensor weirdness is done (mostly) and I can start getting the car to behave properly.   These are really the last few major things stopping me from really being able to dial it in and start to hammer on it more.
Blake MF'ing McBride
1988 Mazda RX7 - Turbo LS1/T56/ProEFI/8.8/Not Slow...   sold.
1965 Mustang Coupe - TT Coyote, TR6060, modern brakes/suspension...  project car
2016 BMW 428i xDrive Gran Coupe - Completely stock...ish

Offline Cobranut

Re: Blake's 1965 Mustang Project
« Reply #2027 on: August 07, 2019, 09:57:30 PM »
Good luck Blake. 
Intermittent problems are the toughest to diagnose.  Sometimes they can drive you totally nuts.

I use a particular UT instrument at work that occasionally just shuts itself off when polled for a measurement.
It's been happening for years. We've tested them under every condition we can think of, sent the units back to the manufacturer several times, who couldn't reproduce the problem. 

Sometimes we can run for days without it happening, then it might happen 3 or 4 times in a row.
In this case we do exactly the same thing and get different results.  :banghead:
At this point we just live with it, and occasionally have to make another scan when it happens.
1995 FD, 7.0 Liter stroked LS3, T56, 8.8, Samberg kit.

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Re: Blake's 1965 Mustang Project
« Reply #2028 on: August 07, 2019, 10:14:39 PM »
Yeah, it's a royal pain.

Today I tied both ECU inputs to the driver side sensor.   Both read/follow exactly, so the ECU is fine (thank goodness...).    The wiring tests good, so it kinda has to be the sensor.   I ordered a new sensor (they're cheap) and hopefully I'll put it in this weekend.    The sucky part is that's like a 6 hour job.    Lord I hope that fixes it.

The car does run MUCH better with both sensors "working".   Much smoother.   That said, I can't really run it on only the driver side sensor;  when I spoof it, the passenger bank runs about 10-12% lean when the cam moves, so it's over-advancing with the same amount of duty cycle (which is fine, it's supposed to have a feedback PID loop for control).   That said, I've always noticed bank 1 (passenger bank on this motor) is a little leaner than driver, and I think that's why (or at least some of why).

The flex fuel sensor didn't work however.   Tried multiple inputs and new wiring.   Zero progress.   I'm about out of ideas there.
Blake MF'ing McBride
1988 Mazda RX7 - Turbo LS1/T56/ProEFI/8.8/Not Slow...   sold.
1965 Mustang Coupe - TT Coyote, TR6060, modern brakes/suspension...  project car
2016 BMW 428i xDrive Gran Coupe - Completely stock...ish

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Re: Blake's 1965 Mustang Project
« Reply #2029 on: August 09, 2019, 11:31:33 AM »
Hitting AEM up about the flex fuel sensor.   I may throw a pull up resistor on the output and see if that helps, the ECU input is up to 18V, so it should be a-ok, I don't have any other brilliant plans as far as that goes, so if that does't work, I'm going to build an Arduino to read it, and see if the sensors are outputting good/clean data.   Very weird.

This weekend will be the "replace that damn cam sensor olympics" which will suck.  LOL
Blake MF'ing McBride
1988 Mazda RX7 - Turbo LS1/T56/ProEFI/8.8/Not Slow...   sold.
1965 Mustang Coupe - TT Coyote, TR6060, modern brakes/suspension...  project car
2016 BMW 428i xDrive Gran Coupe - Completely stock...ish

Online shainiac

Re: Blake's 1965 Mustang Project
« Reply #2030 on: August 09, 2019, 01:11:58 PM »
Silly question, but you are using 12V for the flex sensor reference, not 5V?
'88 TII -  SBE 5.3L, Twin EFR 6758s, T56 Magnum, Ronin 8.8" IRS, MS3Pro Ultimate
716whp/662wtq @1.3bar

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Re: Blake's 1965 Mustang Project
« Reply #2031 on: August 09, 2019, 05:20:17 PM »
Yep!
Blake MF'ing McBride
1988 Mazda RX7 - Turbo LS1/T56/ProEFI/8.8/Not Slow...   sold.
1965 Mustang Coupe - TT Coyote, TR6060, modern brakes/suspension...  project car
2016 BMW 428i xDrive Gran Coupe - Completely stock...ish

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Re: Blake's 1965 Mustang Project
« Reply #2032 on: August 10, 2019, 05:26:25 PM »
All 4 cams work!   10 hours later...    what a boat load of work.   Found melted wastegate lines, too.   Explains why my boost solenoid wasn't doing anything, haha.   Replaced them, rerouted them and put some heat shield on them.   Hopefully that's solved.

Now for some tuning, and waiting for AEM to get back to me about the flex sensor.   If I can sort that out, and the boost issue is sorted, then all that's left is getting my VSS to read, and everything in the ECU is working properly.   :)
Blake MF'ing McBride
1988 Mazda RX7 - Turbo LS1/T56/ProEFI/8.8/Not Slow...   sold.
1965 Mustang Coupe - TT Coyote, TR6060, modern brakes/suspension...  project car
2016 BMW 428i xDrive Gran Coupe - Completely stock...ish

Online kinger

Re: Blake's 1965 Mustang Project
« Reply #2033 on: August 12, 2019, 09:00:12 AM »
Whoa 10 hrs to replace the cam sensor?  so glad it fixed it!  That would have been a royal kick to the nuts if you did that and it still didn't work!  Nice job, the weaker (myself) would have given up long ago!  Ha!
93 Touring, 6.3L, T56 Magnum, Mamo RPS BC2 clutch, FAST 90, NW 90TB TB, 8.8, samberg everything, AC, PS, TC, Cruise, LED Tails, HID head lights

Offline freeskier7791

Re: Blake's 1965 Mustang Project
« Reply #2034 on: August 12, 2019, 10:51:22 AM »
All 4 cams work!   10 hours later...    what a boat load of work.   Found melted wastegate lines, too.   Explains why my boost solenoid wasn't doing anything, haha.   Replaced them, rerouted them and put some heat shield on them.   Hopefully that's solved.

Now for some tuning, and waiting for AEM to get back to me about the flex sensor.   If I can sort that out, and the boost issue is sorted, then all that's left is getting my VSS to read, and everything in the ECU is working properly.   :)

Definitely a big downside to the multicam engines.  glad that you have found and fixed some issues
https://www.youtube.com/thedriftingdad
1985 Mazda RX7 GSL Drift Car

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Re: Blake's 1965 Mustang Project
« Reply #2035 on: August 16, 2019, 10:04:22 AM »
So according to AEM, the ECU they sent as a replacement for my failed unit wasn't properly updated to run digital inputs correctly, so it has to go back to them again.    They are covering shipping and the RMA cost this time though, so that's better than last time at least.   They said I'd have an RMA form and label late Wednesday or Thursday morning, it's now Friday morning and nothing.  Oh well.    They're also supposed to be looking into why I can't download firmware for it as well.

It sounds like this may be why my cam sensors were being so fussy, so maybe I didn't need to spend 10 hours replacing one.   At least for peace of mind it's new I guess.   If this doesn't clear the issues up, I'm either putting a Haltech or a MS3 Ultimate in it.   A company released a DBW addon for MS3, which was the big thing stopping me from considering it.

In the meantime, I scored a killer deal on a 2018+ intake, which is worth a bunch of power up top and a pretty good gain everywhere else as well (especially vs. my 2013 truck intake) so I snagged that.   I modified the vacuum ports and 3D printed plugs for the ones I don't need, and also 3D printed lock-out levers for the variable runner controls as I don't need them/can't use them anyway.     It looks like I'll have to modify my cold side piping just a little and a few other things, but nothing major.
Blake MF'ing McBride
1988 Mazda RX7 - Turbo LS1/T56/ProEFI/8.8/Not Slow...   sold.
1965 Mustang Coupe - TT Coyote, TR6060, modern brakes/suspension...  project car
2016 BMW 428i xDrive Gran Coupe - Completely stock...ish

Offline freeskier7791

Re: Blake's 1965 Mustang Project
« Reply #2036 on: August 16, 2019, 12:20:29 PM »
So according to AEM, the ECU they sent as a replacement for my failed unit wasn't properly updated to run digital inputs correctly, so it has to go back to them again.    They are covering shipping and the RMA cost this time though, so that's better than last time at least.   They said I'd have an RMA form and label late Wednesday or Thursday morning, it's now Friday morning and nothing.  Oh well.    They're also supposed to be looking into why I can't download firmware for it as well.

It sounds like this may be why my cam sensors were being so fussy, so maybe I didn't need to spend 10 hours replacing one.   At least for peace of mind it's new I guess.   If this doesn't clear the issues up, I'm either putting a Haltech or a MS3 Ultimate in it.   A company released a DBW addon for MS3, which was the big thing stopping me from considering it.

In the meantime, I scored a killer deal on a 2018+ intake, which is worth a bunch of power up top and a pretty good gain everywhere else as well (especially vs. my 2013 truck intake) so I snagged that.   I modified the vacuum ports and 3D printed plugs for the ones I don't need, and also 3D printed lock-out levers for the variable runner controls as I don't need them/can't use them anyway.     It looks like I'll have to modify my cold side piping just a little and a few other things, but nothing major.

Sorry to hear about all the AEM issues.  FWIW, Justin Pawlak (Formula D guy) is switching from a stock ECU to a Link unit on his S550, apparently they have full support for variable valve timing and what not.  So may be worth checking out as well
https://www.youtube.com/thedriftingdad
1985 Mazda RX7 GSL Drift Car

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Online kinger

Re: Blake's 1965 Mustang Project
« Reply #2037 on: August 16, 2019, 04:08:25 PM »
Wow on the ECU troubles, that has to be brutally frustrating! 
93 Touring, 6.3L, T56 Magnum, Mamo RPS BC2 clutch, FAST 90, NW 90TB TB, 8.8, samberg everything, AC, PS, TC, Cruise, LED Tails, HID head lights

Online shainiac

Re: Blake's 1965 Mustang Project
« Reply #2038 on: August 16, 2019, 10:24:38 PM »
Blake, who's making the MS3 DBW module? I haven't paid much attention since I have a cable throttle, but I always heard MS3 was behind a lot of others with regards to DBW. Good to hear it's moving forward.

I've had a MS2, MS3X, and now MS3Pro Ultimate. I have to say the the software and features have come a long way. The feature list of the ECU and build quality of the PNP harness are really nice. That said, I and many others have had several hardware issues with the MS3Pro Ultimates. Mostly issues where they suddenly start running very rich.  I've been told that anything sold moving forward has the repairs already done and should be reliable and they're also including a lifetime warranty that covers any hardware issues. They were also reasonably responsive and quick to fix the issue. Despite the issues I've had, I would still recommend a Ms3Pro Ultimate.
'88 TII -  SBE 5.3L, Twin EFR 6758s, T56 Magnum, Ronin 8.8" IRS, MS3Pro Ultimate
716whp/662wtq @1.3bar

Offline Cobranut

Re: Blake's 1965 Mustang Project
« Reply #2039 on: August 16, 2019, 10:44:47 PM »
Blake, who's making the MS3 DBW module? I haven't paid much attention since I have a cable throttle, but I always heard MS3 was behind a lot of others with regards to DBW. Good to hear it's moving forward.

I've had a MS2, MS3X, and now MS3Pro Ultimate. I have to say the the software and features have come a long way. The feature list of the ECU and build quality of the PNP harness are really nice. That said, I and many others have had several hardware issues with the MS3Pro Ultimates. Mostly issues where they suddenly start running very rich.  I've been told that anything sold moving forward has the repairs already done and should be reliable and they're also including a lifetime warranty that covers any hardware issues. They were also reasonably responsive and quick to fix the issue. Despite the issues I've had, I would still recommend a Ms3Pro Ultimate.

I've had a similar issue with my MS3Pro.  A couple times it would go pig rich at idle, and when shut off and restarted would go back to normal, but I haven't had time to finish the tune and determine if it was just a tuning issue or a real problem.
1995 FD, 7.0 Liter stroked LS3, T56, 8.8, Samberg kit.