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Author Topic: Joel's LS1 FC master parts list/swap thread  (Read 143328 times)

Offline digitalsolo

Joel's LS1 FC master parts list/swap thread
« on: May 10, 2010, 03:01:42 PM »
This thread was created by Frijolee;   please direct all credit to him, thanks - Blake "Digitalsolo" McBride

Note:  The hotlinks below need fixed.   This will be done ASAP.

TABLE OF CONTENTS / HOT LINKS

WARNING: You may need to set your User CP => Options to view 40 posts per page for these links to work correctly... Permalink is based on page numeration and may not work if you have an alternate page numbering structure from me.

-Cheap parts source for new GM pieces
-Timing chain, cam, oil pump
-Vette to F-body pan conversion, installing rod bolts
-Piston to valve (P to V) checking, upgraded rockers
-Painting brakes, t2 rear end install, swaybar fitment, fuel pump upgrade, finally solved P to V conundrum with the addition of an adjustable timing belt.
-Motor install, shifter boot, header clearancing, power steering
-Exhaust gasket porting, clutch hydraulics install
-JTR radiator install w/ Volvo s80 fan, first pass at fuel system, intake tract
-First motor firing

Note TOC is ordered as written not always in the order it was built?

-Mazdaspeed lip notes
-Swaybar details (Vette accessories make things difficult), intake fabrication, pcv and steam tubes, oil pressure sender, battery relocation
-Lengthening the throttle pedal
-First pass at preventing diff knock, first pics on 4 wheels
-Brake prop valve clearancing
-Exhaust
-Exhaust materials list
-Splash guard fitment / engine belly pan
-Water temp sender adaptation
-Heater hoses
(if I ever get around to it, I?d like to redo heater hoses via relocation instead)

-Fan wiring,
-Adding to the main fuse block
-Battery relocation redo
-Relocating Vette powersteering reservoir for better hood clearance
-Bench bleeding brake MC
-Driveshaft loop, rear suspension bushing change out.
-Mcleod twin disk clutch, blown up slave cylinder
-Verifying shimming on Mcleod clutch
-Transmission reinstall from below
-Details on the cage:
-Widebody front fenders, longer wheel studs, 17x9 wheels x4 corners
-Fender lining relocation, rolling rear fender lips
-Custom wheel spacers
-Brake system design notes
-Donuts
-Big Brakes teaser
-Big Brake fitment
-Clutch MC rebuild
-Wiring notes consolidated
(see also a few posts following...)

-Some days wrenching don?t go as you plan?
-Oil cooler and Oil pan baffle install


PARTS LIST LAST UPDATED: 5/25/07

My latest pass at a comprehensive master parts list:








Some things are exclusive to my situation (missing bolts because I'm doing this the piecemeal route.)

I'll try to include links to other threads I found especially helpful as I go along.  Whether you know it or not this forum's been a great help so far.  I started researching feasibility here.  I bought my car/engine from an occasional poster back when we were on TorqueCentral and picked up a rolling chassis (for parts) from da club that a TC user pointed out. 

A few of the following replies may not make a ton of sense in context as they were answers to questions I've now covered in my list. 

I've had the car up and running since December 06.  Work plus school plus moving plus being married plus a car project is officially too much to do.  With all that the swap took me 3.5 months and probably about 300 hours to get it the way I wanted.  I ran into a lot of weirdness using the vette ls1 and mixing and matching pieces from 98s and others years.  No regrets, the car rules, and it's everything I hoped it would be.  A huge thank you to Dave and Cherrie Ellis, amazing folks who let me use their backyard and basement to do the build.  Blessings to you both and good luck to all who follow here...

Before:


After (and in the middle of relocating the brake prop valve for the 2nd time):


After 2.0 (new intake tract)


Regards,
Joel

Parts list enclosed in zipped excel format below...  If you share it with others please give me the credit.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2010, 04:50:01 PM by digitalsolo »
Blake MF'ing McBride
1988 Mazda RX7 - Turbo LS1/T56/ProEFI/8.8/Not Slow...   sold.
1965 Mustang Coupe - TT Coyote, TR6060, modern brakes/suspension...
2007 Aston Martin V8 Vantage - Exhaust/intake/tune/springs...
2016 BMW 428i xDrive Gran Coupe - Completely stock...ish

Offline digitalsolo

Re: Joel's LS1 FC master parts list/swap thread
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2010, 03:04:42 PM »
Engine Build Progress

I'm adding a heads/cam package and I felt clever for restraining the engine from turning over while breaking the main pulley free.  (I've been defeated on two front wheel drive cars in the past)  No air tools required when you can just strap a healthy piece of angle iron to the crankshaft via flywheel bolts.


engine is upside down because I was about to do ARP Pro rod bolts when I changed my mine and bought the Katech's (no rod resizing req'd).



Here's a couple shots of my out-with-the-old, in-with-the-new:


98 ls1 timing chain on the left, ls2 timing chain on the right



stock cam on the bottom, lunati 243/252 0.595/0.595 on top



notice that the lobes aren't much taller (it wouldn't clear the bearings), rather the base circle has to be smaller.  Next up: checking pushrod length and piston to valve clearance.



stock 98 oil pump up top, TSP ported ls6 pump on the bottom




And finally...  Going going gone!  


load leveler's really are a God send...



I think I should have asked more than $400 for my 13b and trans with only 65k original miles.  It sold on 'da club' in less than 2 hours.



My engine bay's never looked so good...


Cheers y'all,
Joel
Blake MF'ing McBride
1988 Mazda RX7 - Turbo LS1/T56/ProEFI/8.8/Not Slow...   sold.
1965 Mustang Coupe - TT Coyote, TR6060, modern brakes/suspension...
2007 Aston Martin V8 Vantage - Exhaust/intake/tune/springs...
2016 BMW 428i xDrive Gran Coupe - Completely stock...ish

Offline digitalsolo

Re: Joel's LS1 FC master parts list/swap thread
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2010, 03:06:11 PM »
List updated with present progress.  Swap starts in <30 days and my living room is starting to look a bit warehouse-ish.

I found a source for great deals on stock GM parts: Dal Slabaugh (no affiliation to me).  I ran into him through Brent Franker's F-body links page:

Brent's F-Body Links Page

As an example, F-body oil pans are becoming really hard to come by.  Too many folks jumping on the ls1 bandwagon.  The last pan on ebay sold for $202 with shipping.  Dal quoted me $167.82 for a new pan.  Pickup and windage tray would be $28.49 and $27.29 respectively.  That's CHEAP for unused new goods.

Dal can be reached at 877-448-5451 (direct  phone)
direct fax: 330-658-4065
email: lockitup@ohio.net

business hours 4:00 am to 5:00 pm, eastern standard time zone
phone hours 6:00 am to 2:00 pm eastern standard time zone

I finished buttoning up the bottom end yesterday and thought I'd share a few insights...  The goal was to add upgraded rod bolts and switch over from the corvette oil pan.

I'd already purchased ARP pro rod bolts but their instructions mentioned you always need to resize rods.  It wasn't a term I was familar with so it was off to the internet.  After a little research it turns out that the ARP bolts (and especially the ARP pros which are longer/heavier than stock) can distort the big end of the con rod by a thousandth or so and cause undesireable bearing wear.  Some reputable LS1 shops claim it doesn't matter but I wasn't going to risk an engine when I needed to get this done fast and wasn't finding the answers I was looking for.

The other company that sells well respected rod bolts is Katech.  They're a bit pricy at $152.xx vs the $89 or so for the ARPs.  However Katech advertises that no resizing is necessary and their rod bolts just drop in.  Lingenfelter Vette's use these bolts so I pulled the trigger.  All I'm trying to do here is address of a few of the inherent weaknesses of the LS1.  I'm not looking to do a full on blueprinting job.


Here's my install:



After I first yanked off the batwing oil pan: showing vette windage tray and pickup tupe (or "crankshaft oil deflector" and "oil screen" if you prefer the proper GM speak).  Icemark from "Da Club" would be so proud.  Oh, when you're taking off the windage tray the nuts are all "deformed metal" so they drag until they're almost to the top.  It's like a nyloc nut but with intentional metal to metal contact.



More old vs new.  There are several versions of stock rod bolts.  Some use little additive sleeves called ferrules that must be removed if present to use the Katechs.  Do a bit of searching on LS1tech and you'll find the info.  Note, these are the same length it's just how they're resting in my hand that creates the illusion of variance.



This is the first time I've played with "cracked rods."  Each rod is built whole with a notch on the inside (not shown).  The lower half is then broken off with a sharp impact and the fracture surface becomes the seam.  This is why you add one rod bolt at a time: to make sure you don't mess up any alignments and keep the bearings where they're supposed to be.


The new bolt is only hand tight here so you can see the fracture seam open up with no tension.



With the bolt torqued (lube on threads and under head, torque to 30 ft-lbs, loosen, 30 ft-lbs, loosen, 50 ft-lbs per Katech directions) a bit of oil gets driven out of the seam.

 

wipe off the oil and the seam is just about invisible.  This is why QC departments use dye-penetrant for crack identification.



Install finished.  You can reinsert the used main pulley bolt and use it to turn the engine over to keep whatever rod you're working on to the top.



camaro windage tray and pickup.  When I first bought the part I thought they gave me one for a v6 (only 3 voids for crankshaft).  I didn't realize the windage tray was only 3/4 length and that's why the alternate pickup tube is required.  It's not just the direction around the pan, there's also a change in profile for the pickup.  If you're swapping from vette setup it'd be easy to cut your existing windage tray down to size.



Here's the pan.  Looking at this from the outside suddenly the 3/4 windage tray makes sense.  I bought new from Dal Slabaugh (see above in thread) because there's been a scarcity of f-body pan's on ebay and the last two I saw sold for ~$190 each.  If you do go the new route it comes with a gasket, internal baffle, low level sensor, and all bolts.  Windage and pickup sold separately.


I also added a new front end seal (goes around the main pulley) to try to keep this motor looking pretty.  Be warned that both front end and oil pan are alignment critical.  I just used a straight edge to be sure all surfaces were flat.  Also if I had to do it over again I probably would have bought the longer main pulley bolt.  As it was, I threw the pulley out to sit in the sun and got it good and hot (loosen the press fit).  I was able to tap the pulley on about 1/4" using a rubber mallet and then the stock bolt was just long enough to pull it in the rest of the way.  ARP balancer bolts are longer for ease of installation.


Next up: Prepping the engine bay and/or trying out the new heads and checking piston to valve (p-to-v) clearances.

Joel
« Last Edit: May 10, 2010, 04:46:46 PM by digitalsolo »
Blake MF'ing McBride
1988 Mazda RX7 - Turbo LS1/T56/ProEFI/8.8/Not Slow...   sold.
1965 Mustang Coupe - TT Coyote, TR6060, modern brakes/suspension...
2007 Aston Martin V8 Vantage - Exhaust/intake/tune/springs...
2016 BMW 428i xDrive Gran Coupe - Completely stock...ish

Offline digitalsolo

Re: Joel's LS1 FC master parts list/swap thread
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2010, 03:10:39 PM »
I've got a few questions about checking piston to valve clearance while using hydraulic lifters.  If anyone here wants to chime in, I started the discussion on ls1tech at:

http://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=575134

Thanks,
Joel
Blake MF'ing McBride
1988 Mazda RX7 - Turbo LS1/T56/ProEFI/8.8/Not Slow...   sold.
1965 Mustang Coupe - TT Coyote, TR6060, modern brakes/suspension...
2007 Aston Martin V8 Vantage - Exhaust/intake/tune/springs...
2016 BMW 428i xDrive Gran Coupe - Completely stock...ish

Offline digitalsolo

Re: Joel's LS1 FC master parts list/swap thread
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2010, 03:11:07 PM »
Quiet thread...  I only gave it such a boring name because I wanted to help out the newbs who actually use the search function.   :yup:   

Anyways, back to business.  First order on the agenda piston to valve clearance.

So the four stroke engine cycle is intake, compression, explosion, exhaust...  For two of the these events the valves are opening/closing with the piston close to top dead center.  During intake, the intake valve opens right as the piston starts to lower (thereby creating vacuum and drawing in air and fuel).  Then during the exhaust stroke the piston chases the exhaust valve closed (shoving burnt fuel out).  Generally speaking from a power perspective it's a good thing do open the intake valve as soon as possible and leave the exhaust open for as long as you can.  One common misconception I found was that lift has practically nothing to do piston to valve clearance.  Your valvespring might not be able to handle 2" travel of a valve but thereretically you could have a valve chase a piston all the way down.  It's duration that gets people into trouble.  In addition to more valve overlap, agressive cams try to push the envelope in when you can open and close valves and how quickly.

Why do we care?  The problem comes if you don't maintain sufficient clearance between pistons and valves which from everything I've read is 0.080" on intake and 0.100" on exhaust.  Now I didn't really know where these magic numbers came from but I at least have a theory as to why they're needed.

Before we get to that lets talk procedure.  Generally folks take one of two methods when checking piston to valve clearance: clay bar or dial indicator/feeler gauges.



For the clay bar method you lay a strip of modeling clay ~0.20-0.25" thick on the surface of the piston (head off), reinstall head, spin the crank over at least 2 times, remove the head and see how big a dent you made in the clay.  For dial indicator method you replace a pair of your normal valve springs with checker springs (sometimes also called test springs).  Then you find top dead center and manually drive the valve in further than the rocker would until it touches the piston.  Check springs are weak so this isn't a problem.  You then measure how far the valve had to travel either with a dial indicator or with feeler gauges between the tip of rocker and end of valve all while turning the crank over a degree or two at a time.

The complication comes because of the hydraulic lifters.  Hydraulic lifters are by nature a two piece design with an internal spring.  BUT this spring has a lower spring rate than do the valvesprings.  Therefore if you turn the crank the lifter will compress before the valvespring does.  This sucks because the valve doesn't move in and out normally and clearance can't be verified.  When your engine is running normally there's an oil port on the side of each lifter and internal diaphram such that oil pressure assists the lifters in opening the valves so lifter collapse isn't an issue.  What IS an issue is that as you rev higher the lifters can "pump up" to the point the valve opens further than usual hence the clearance you need...

If you ever take a lifter out of your engine it'll be fully extended with the pushrod seat all the way out to the stops.  Looks like this:

 
This is not where your engine normally needs it.  Your pushrods are a touch longer than the spacing between seat and rocker so the lifter starts with some nominal compression.  This is preload and it's generally good to be in the range of 0.020 to 0.060" of lifter preload.  The lifter actually stays in the middle of its possible travel and the oil displaces any and all slack in the system so the lifters run quiet and smooth.  Pushrod length dictates preload.  Period.  Only if you have ajustable rockers and/or shim rocker height will the "wipe pattern" on the end of the valve change.  A final note on pushrods: I ran into a tech article that warned that crappy pushrods can cause all kinds of problems because the shaft itself introduces another spring into the system.  This is especially true as you start getting into stiffer valvesprings.  That made sense to me so I'll be running comp chromoly pushrods.

Hydraulic lifters mean you CANNOT do the clay bar method without somehow making the lifter dominate the valvespring.  You can buy and use and couple of solid lifters (which will dominate) or you can install check springs with the clay bar to ensure the lifter stays extended.

My route?  I went and bought the check springs and used feeler gauges.  The way I thought about it I didn't want to take even a head on and off twice if I didn't need to.

1) installed head, all lifters where they're supposed to be
2) installed check springs in place of the big valve springs
3) used adjustable length pushrods to give zero valve lash (which by definition means fully extended lifters aka zero preload)
4) found top dead center
5) checked clearances for about 20 deg before and after TDC.

A couple pics of the process:


Cleaning the gasket surface with a plastic scraper (the graphite is ANNOYING as all get out to get truly flat.  I probably spent 2 hours at this.)



Used head bolts with a flat ground in them...



Are great for cleaning out the threads in your head (props to LS1tech for the tip).



My modded valve spring compressing tool.  This was made for studs in either 5/16 or 3/8" and the ls1 uses m8 bolts.  What to do?  Make a shackle.  I actually trimmed it a bit more to get the travel I needed.



valve spring undone



check springs installed



stack of feeler gauges.  The piston is touching the valve here.


The bad news.  I only had 0.076" on intake and 0.070 on exhaust.  Less than 1/32nd of an inch screwing me over.  Then again this was on a 243/252 duration cam which is HUGE so I knew it was going to be close.  For comparison the T-rex is something like 242/249.

Options if you don't have the clearance specified?  Normally you have 3...
-Adjust cam timing (not only am I loathe to go buy and aftermarket ajustable set, this actually won't work for me because if I make the exhaust better the intake gets worse and I already failed both)
-Notch the pistons (supposedly not too hard you basically insert a cutting bit shaped like a valve in the normal valve spot and cut to a known depth.  As mentioned I didn't want to take my heads back off and I didn't know how you'd control depth and therefore weight removal).
-Run a different cam.  This is me.  I have one Futral F13 (230/232) now on order.  It'll still be agressive, but a lot less so.

Interestingly you don't actually have to use adjustable pushrods.  As long as you can figure out what the normal preload of the lifters are you know how much further than normal the valve gets pushed in toward the piston (it's just the oil pressure maxed out how far the lifter could pump up.)  Preload is pretty easy to check you just start will your test rocker off and cam facing such that your not on a lobe. Be sure you give the lifter enough time to extend.  Tighten the rocker down until there's no play in the pushrod but the rocker is not yet tight to iron.  Then use a straightedge at the valve cover elavation and scribe a line in the pushrod.  Tighten the rocker the rest of the way down which compressed the lifter.  Scribe another line and measure the difference.

Here's my epiphany:  Preload is supposed to be 0.020 to 0.060.  If we take the max amount the lifter could pump up 0.060 and translate this into valve motion (times 1.7 for the rocker ratio) we get 0.102 which is almost exactly the 0.100 we're required for our worst case scenario exhaust valve.  You can do this same calc and avoid buying adjustable pushrods if you don't mind a bit of extra math.

Finally a note on rockers.  The only real weakness of the stock rockers is that they sometimes spill their bearings.  A real roller tip rocker may be a hair more efficient but they're also heavier and harder to control.  Plus they won't clear the stock valve covers and I don't want to run spacers for fear of hood clearance difficulties.  My solution was to send my rockers off for the Harland Sharp rebuild.  It's $250 for the service but the pivots are burly.  Contact Nate at nastyperformance.com if you want them sent over. 

Here's the result:


The pivot assembly is actually the same one used in Harland's full-on roller rockers.  You can see a good side shot of the pivot and circ clip above in the pic with feeler gauges.

-Joel
Blake MF'ing McBride
1988 Mazda RX7 - Turbo LS1/T56/ProEFI/8.8/Not Slow...   sold.
1965 Mustang Coupe - TT Coyote, TR6060, modern brakes/suspension...
2007 Aston Martin V8 Vantage - Exhaust/intake/tune/springs...
2016 BMW 428i xDrive Gran Coupe - Completely stock...ish

Offline digitalsolo

Re: Joel's LS1 FC master parts list/swap thread
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2010, 03:11:17 PM »
Awesome.  I'm glad the list is getting used.  If you shoot me your email on PM I'll send you the excel version so you can modify as you see fit.  I thought about incorporating a few of the lists of fuel fittings but everyone sets theirs up differently and it seemed easier to just hit a local shop for the fittings after I figure out where I plan to run everything...

The Spal fan with shroud I have is both thin and beautiful.  However the tabs on the shroud are made to mount to the stock f-body radiator so it might be worth more to someone with the right radiator to begin with.  If I were you I probably would use a Taurus/Volvo S80 fan (and I still might if I can't fit this up to my satisfaction.)   [Ed note: I did go away from the Spal eventually, as it might as well be a custom piece I removed it from my list]

Mike at JTR came through for me so version 2.0 of the prototype radiator kit Rao used is in route to me as we speak.  You can be sure I'll post up pics as soon as I get it.  It does use the vette radiator from the s10 kit which is a bit wider and shorter than the Datsun version Rao dropped in.  Part of the reason I'm eyeballing the Volvo s60 fan again is that JTR designed this kit with that fan in mind.
Blake MF'ing McBride
1988 Mazda RX7 - Turbo LS1/T56/ProEFI/8.8/Not Slow...   sold.
1965 Mustang Coupe - TT Coyote, TR6060, modern brakes/suspension...
2007 Aston Martin V8 Vantage - Exhaust/intake/tune/springs...
2016 BMW 428i xDrive Gran Coupe - Completely stock...ish

Offline digitalsolo

Re: Joel's LS1 FC master parts list/swap thread
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2010, 03:12:56 PM »
Progress report:

Simple and clean.  That's kinda been the goal for my swap.  Do the basic stuff to address the known weaknesses of both chassis and engine.  That way you end up with something strong but dead-nuts reliable.

I?m starting with a GTU so my car originally came with the single piston front brakes and solid disk rears, albeit in 5 lug.  I bought a rolling chassis for parts that had the 4 piston upgrades front and a complete T2 S4 rear.  Since everything was apart I decided to do a bit of cleanup work and paint the calipers.  It looks like the most hardcore paint you can buy short of powdercoating is by a company called G2.  They sell enamels in multiple colors that come with a lifetime warrantee not to chip.  It's a kit the even comes with the brake cleaner.  You mix the two parts and it goes on thick and comes out glossy.  Pretty happy so far.  Black looks nice but it's not too loud.






Next up was the T2 rear.  This job's mostly a pain because it's hard to get the back end of the car high enough up in the air to get the assembly under there.  Steve (Brismo7) and I ended up dragging the new rear under the car whole but we didn?t have clearance to set it on the jack first.  We set up wood blocks to keep from destroying the dust shields on each brake disc and just brute forced it into rough position.  Then a big crowbar was just the trick to progressively block it higher and higher until we could get the jack underneath it.  The hot tip for rear end installs is to spread the load front to back by balancing both the subframe and diff on a piece of 2x8 or other board.  Once it?s balanced it drives home easy.



 
While I had the other subframe out I went ahead and swapped in my Wahlbro fuel pump. 



I?m using the stock 5/16 hardline toward the front of the car.  I know the LS1s came with 3/8 line but with the fuel pressure regulator (vette filter/fpr) in the engine bay I figure any pressure drop in the lines won?t matter as long as I get the flow needed.  I bought a wideband 02 sensor so I should be able to check myself.

On the front end of the car I installed and then removed the beefy front swaybar.  I didn't like the angularity that the end links made when using Granny's relocating brackets.  The problem is actually the the urethane style end links don't have the same range of motion that the stockers (which use ball joints) do. 




While I have it back out I'll fix something else that bothered me.  The swaybar mounts have perfect spacing but I'm a little worried about the aluminum threads while running a thick bar.  The new holes come into the frame rails blind so you either get to cut off the stock bolts or run different hardware (which in my case meant the closest I could find only engaged 80% of the aluminum.  I decided to go with door number three.  I'll be drilling slightly smaller than required reliefs in my frame rails and tapping the rail with the spacer in place.  This way I'll gain a couple of steel threads in addition to 100% of the available aluminum.

I swapped in my Futral F13 cam and was frustrated to note I still didn?t have the piston to valve clearance I wanted to see.  You need 0.080 and 0.100 intake and exhaust.  The F13?s supposed to be 0.080 and 0.110 and I was seeing 0.065 and 0.130.  The final answer was to pick up an adjustable timing set.  The kit I'm using is comp cams single roller part number 3513KT.  The crankshaft pulley has three keyways that are basically -4, 0, and plus 4 degrees.  The the cam pully has an eccentric pin you can advance or retard another 2 degrees.  This means you get a total allowance of +/-6 degrees that's infinitely adjustable.  A word to the wise: don't try this job without a healthy assortment of pullers or you'll never get the stock one off.   


Reinstall is easier as I just doubled up the pulleys (see above) and used the harmonic balancer pulley bolt to drive it home.  The engine was one again restrained from turning over using my trusty piece of angle iron.


With the camshaft retarded by ~1.75 degrees I measured 0.082 and 0.109.  Being accurate within a thou or two felt pretty dang good.  CAMSHAFT MADNESS SOLVED!

Soooo... the motors all buttoned up except for pushrods and valve covers (I changed heads and the different in bolt pattern on the 98s bit me.  I knew the coils bolted directly to the covers but not that the cover pattern itself was different.)  I just got the covers, my pushrods seem to be lost in transit.

I installed all accessories and would have dropped it in the car for the first time except for the fiasco with vette A/C and Granny?s mounts.  (I don?t believe any other combo would have issues).  Read about that here:

Granny's mounts vs. Vette compressor

My final answer:  No A/C for the time being.  I'll leave space for the condenser in front of my radiator and solve this in a couple years.  In a way I'm kind of relieved because that?s a few less custom hoses to worry about and with school back in session I need to get this bad boy on the road post haste.  Still hoping to have it done for Steaks and Beer.  It?s gonna be a good push to get her there.  If I show up un-tuned with open headers and ear plugs at least I'll have made it there?  Heck, if anyone wants to bring their laptop and HP Tuners maybe we?ll get it dialed in on with a street tune.

Motor goes in the car tomorrow night!



I've got everything trimmed and fitted to the JTR radiator but I'm waiting to report on that until I have a motor in place to compare the spacing to.  First impression: it kicks ass. :yeah:

Joel
Blake MF'ing McBride
1988 Mazda RX7 - Turbo LS1/T56/ProEFI/8.8/Not Slow...   sold.
1965 Mustang Coupe - TT Coyote, TR6060, modern brakes/suspension...
2007 Aston Martin V8 Vantage - Exhaust/intake/tune/springs...
2016 BMW 428i xDrive Gran Coupe - Completely stock...ish

Offline digitalsolo

Re: Joel's LS1 FC master parts list/swap thread
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2010, 03:13:19 PM »
A big milestone!


-Motor and Trans dropping in.  Danzan likes my engine.



-Everyone needs a picture like this at some point.  The load leveler is once again key. I installed this with the intake and valley cover removed using the valley cover bolt holes front and rear.



-Best way to get the engine aligned to the cradle: It's IMPORTANT to do a dry fit out of the car to be sure the width is right (some of these can be a bit warped).  On Brismo's car we had to drive each side of the cradle in by about 1/4" with a scissor jack.  Then you use the same scissor jack to shove the engine to the rear.  A mechanics jack under the tail of the transmission is useful for getting the side to side alignment right.

-I'm more impressed with Grannies bolt through the floor tranny brace design after closer inspection than when I first looked at it.  The plates up top are just long enough that they capture the two undercar channels (I want to call them frame rails but they're really not) thereby adding strength.  It's going to be hard to get the exhaust up and over this guy but I think it's do able.

-Driveshaft was the perfect length (c4 vette shaft, with the longer slip yoke and mazda rear flange both, everything is referenced in my parts list up top.)


-I cut down the stock camaro shift boot and sandwiched it in place using the oem FC frame.  Should help with transmission tunnel heat and the shifter landed so nice in the hole that I had to try it.


-Pushrods and rockers are in.  Valve covers next.

-If you haven't done so already you're about to figure out where you need to clearance stuff to make this fit.  I can confirm you need to cut off the drivers side mazda tranny mount (bulge on side of tunnel) I ground mine as flat as I could, sealed the gaps with hot glue [Ed note: I didn't realize how high the exhaust would have to run so epoxy or caulk might have been a better choice.  Nothing's melted yet, but I thought I'd mention it] so it won't "drink water" and painted it with undercoating.  I left the other mazda mount in place.  Trimming off one bulge only will only work if you running Grannies mounts on the rear hole.  Any other combo and they both need to be removed.

-I had to yank the engine out one more time after test fitting the JTR headers.  If you run Hinson mounts or Grannies on the front cradle holes you'll probably get away with less.  Mine needed significant clearancing on both sides and ended up looking very similar to what RiceKilla did. 

http://www.v8rx7forum.com/showthread.php?39063-Using-BBK-longtubes-and-possibly-x-pipe-on-an-LS1-FC&p=362715#post362715

One warning: don't get too aggressive with your firewall modding or you'll start messing with the area under the gas pedal.

Here's the finaly version with the headers installed.  Passenger side is a tad closer than the drivers.


-Headers go in easy from the bottom but it does help if you put the starter in afterward.



-Starting to peel back all the shrink wrap.  If you look closely you can see where I trimmed the lip on the firewall for intake manifold clearance.  I also had to dent in the center slightly where the nipple for the map sensor sticks out.



-Manifold fits nice

-Using the rear holes on Grannies mount leaves me ~5/8" in clearance to the firewall on the passenger side head and the shifter fits PERFECTLY in the stock location (no trimming required).  If you ask me this is the biggest advantage of Grannies mounts over other offerings.

-Powersteering is all plumbed.  For anyone in SoCal check out Orme Brothers in Northridge CA.  Amazing shop high quality work.  I basically had new fittings braised on chevy high pressure fitting at the pump and at the banjo for the Mazda rack.  I took these pics about six months after the fact so excuse the fact they're dirty, this should give you a better idea of the braising work.


Bottom side of the pump


At the steering rack.

The low pressure return just uses barb fittings on each end so that was easy.  I plumbed it in using the factory Mazda power steering coolant loop.


Still to do:

-Wire it (harness already modded)
-Mount radiator permanently
-Fuel system (have supplies)
-Need adaptor fitting for clutch line (mine is custom so this might be different for you)

Unfortunately I'm waiting on the fittings for the oil pressure sender so I don't have the intake manifold permanently installed yet. That plus the fact that grad school is starting to hit hard (on the side of full time work).  At this point I only give myself 40% odds of having it done for steaks and beer. :cry:

Questions:

-What/where is the steam vent?  I've seen it alluded to as a "run hose so you can burp it and then cap the line" but not where it is.  [Ed note: this is the same thing as the cross over tubes that run just above the valley cover.  It needs to plumb into the upper radiator hose...  See a bit further down in the thread for more info]

-Does anyone have a nice diagram for simplified vaccum and PCV plumbing?   I've got the valley cover and steel crossover tubes in but I don't know where they go.  (Yes I have a FSM but I'd sure appreciate a fast answer if it were available)
Blake MF'ing McBride
1988 Mazda RX7 - Turbo LS1/T56/ProEFI/8.8/Not Slow...   sold.
1965 Mustang Coupe - TT Coyote, TR6060, modern brakes/suspension...
2007 Aston Martin V8 Vantage - Exhaust/intake/tune/springs...
2016 BMW 428i xDrive Gran Coupe - Completely stock...ish

Offline digitalsolo

Re: Joel's LS1 FC master parts list/swap thread
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2010, 03:13:39 PM »
Still looking for answers to the questions above.  I might start a couple new threads for easy newb searching...  [Ed. note: see below for the answers]

A couple things I forgot to mention: If you're running 1 3/4 primaries on a set of headers you might want to look into exhaust gasket porting.   1 3/4 seems to be the best all around header but some folks running strokers, FI, or a ton of NOS might see more power with 1 7/8 in which case you'd definitely want to check this out.


I started a separate a thread on my exhaust gasket porting here:

Also at some point along this timeframe I completed my clutch plumbing.  I was recently replacing my brake booster and finally got some good pictures of that.


I built a bracket to reorient the master cylinder vertically (heavy black UHMW plastic and a couple hole saws worked well).  I think Hinson sells these now so for some small change you can avoid the hassel.



Hardline runs along beneath the brake booster.  I'll go back and weed out all the spare connectors at somepoint but I wasn't hacking into the harness more than I needed to until I had a running car to help me diagnose what was what.



The adaptor bushing that goes from brake line fitting to -AN for the braided SS I used to jump to the tranmission was a HUGE PITA to find.  I literally bought probably a dozen fittings from 4 stores before I found the right one from Orme Brothers.  However in the end I was stoked that I could reuse my stock clips and bracket just relocated down by the stock fuel filter location.

On the trans side I have another fitting braised in place.


Progess pic to date:


Unfortunately grad school hitting hard means this will be as far as I get before Seven Not Stock Steaks and Beer...  I realized I wasn't going to make it and decided it was stupid to keep burning vacation and killing myself.  I was having flashbacks to JJ's (aka drivinggodspeed's) "Diary of a Madman" thread.

Besides, it might not be such a great idea to head on a road trip (even a short one across LA) until I've confirmed that it won't overheat and that the tuning is close.  What makes me think the temptation would be there to put my foot into it sooner than I really should?  :D
Blake MF'ing McBride
1988 Mazda RX7 - Turbo LS1/T56/ProEFI/8.8/Not Slow...   sold.
1965 Mustang Coupe - TT Coyote, TR6060, modern brakes/suspension...
2007 Aston Martin V8 Vantage - Exhaust/intake/tune/springs...
2016 BMW 428i xDrive Gran Coupe - Completely stock...ish

Offline digitalsolo

Re: Joel's LS1 FC master parts list/swap thread
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2010, 03:13:56 PM »
Yup.  I know you've felt my pain before JJ.  It was cool meeting y'all.  By the way I love your contrasting paint on the headlight covers combined with the masking on the bumper.  It's clever and distinctive.

Progress:

Radiator mounting.  Aram and I have a separate thread going on that here.  So I'll just include a couple of glamour shots in this thread.  [Update 5/28/07:  I'm finally happy with my fuse setup for the fan.  See more on that here.]





I also finished my fuel system.  Thanks to DanWRX for letting me stare at his car for a while at SNS west.  The 98 vette "return style" rails are quite a bit different.  I do like the simplicity in the run though.  The FPR is part of the rails so the vette combo filter/FPR is not required.  You do get to run a vacuum line from the FPR at the rail to manifold pressure instead of referencing the FPR off of atmosphere.  I used the spare nipple back by the map sensor to run this.  I also remounted the stock fuel filter holder up on the shock tower via a bit of resizing holes and used a random fram fuel filter (G7333) with the proper 3/8 quick connects. 


[Ed. note:  I've decided that my cable-x box needs to go where the filter is shown here so I bought a new rx7 filter, mounted it in the OEM location (albeit tweaking inward as close to the frame rail as possible) and covered it in heat shielding because it's right by the header collector.]


And here's how I left it after a weekend of good wrenching:



It's actually starting to look like a motor in there.  The biggest thing left is wiring and I've walked myself through that a couple of times so it's really just chasing the wires.  I think I'm still on track to fire it up next weekend.

Joel

Edit 2/18/10:  Realized I never put in any shots of my original intake tract... 

-4 to 3.5" elbow
-3.5" pipe (kit from a 96 impala)
-3.5" coupler to MAF
-MAF to 3.5" intake

Made 436 rwhp through this setup.



Blake MF'ing McBride
1988 Mazda RX7 - Turbo LS1/T56/ProEFI/8.8/Not Slow...   sold.
1965 Mustang Coupe - TT Coyote, TR6060, modern brakes/suspension...
2007 Aston Martin V8 Vantage - Exhaust/intake/tune/springs...
2016 BMW 428i xDrive Gran Coupe - Completely stock...ish

Offline digitalsolo

Re: Joel's LS1 FC master parts list/swap thread
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2010, 03:14:16 PM »
IT'S ALIVE!!  Muahhaahhhaaa! 

Sound link here...

I recognize I need to fill in a bit more info on the build process to get from the last post to here... (probably do that at Christmas break) BUT I had to pass the good word.  I've been pushing on this so hard for so long I wasn't sure whether I'd be excited or just relieved.  It lit up on the first try and I was jumping around like an idiot.

Now all that's left is the wrap things up and make the wiring pretty, bleed brakes and clutch, hookup the cable x box, and a few other do-dads.  Oh and putting the seats in and the wheels on would be a good idea too. :yeah:
Blake MF'ing McBride
1988 Mazda RX7 - Turbo LS1/T56/ProEFI/8.8/Not Slow...   sold.
1965 Mustang Coupe - TT Coyote, TR6060, modern brakes/suspension...
2007 Aston Martin V8 Vantage - Exhaust/intake/tune/springs...
2016 BMW 428i xDrive Gran Coupe - Completely stock...ish

Offline digitalsolo

Re: Joel's LS1 FC master parts list/swap thread
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2010, 03:16:36 PM »
Thanks for the props fellas.

Lip is a MazdaSpeed replica I bought from Corksport.  I wanted something to make the nose a hair more agressive (basically to keep my FD envy in check ;) ).  The mold they used didn't align real well so I had to bondo and sand an 1/8" deep seem along most of the upper surface and both sides. 



Toss in a bit a color matched paint and clearcoat and I'm happy with it.  It's not quite as low as some of the body kits either so it doesn't scrape most places if I'm careful.

This was the car that turned me onto it.



Joel
Blake MF'ing McBride
1988 Mazda RX7 - Turbo LS1/T56/ProEFI/8.8/Not Slow...   sold.
1965 Mustang Coupe - TT Coyote, TR6060, modern brakes/suspension...
2007 Aston Martin V8 Vantage - Exhaust/intake/tune/springs...
2016 BMW 428i xDrive Gran Coupe - Completely stock...ish

Offline digitalsolo

Re: Joel's LS1 FC master parts list/swap thread
« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2010, 03:16:56 PM »
Frijolee's Ls1 Rx7 Startup  [ED note: Google link worked breifly and then failed, youtube comes out with no sound, putfile has sound but no video, streetfire hasn't sent me a link yet.  Looks like metacafe did the trick]

Now you can watch me try to twist the throttle body the wrong way...  What can I say, I was tired.  When it revs up theres just a bit of a staccato to it that makes me wonder if it's missing.  Might just be the cam though.

I fixed my signature for ya :D
Blake MF'ing McBride
1988 Mazda RX7 - Turbo LS1/T56/ProEFI/8.8/Not Slow...   sold.
1965 Mustang Coupe - TT Coyote, TR6060, modern brakes/suspension...
2007 Aston Martin V8 Vantage - Exhaust/intake/tune/springs...
2016 BMW 428i xDrive Gran Coupe - Completely stock...ish

Offline digitalsolo

Re: Joel's LS1 FC master parts list/swap thread
« Reply #13 on: May 10, 2010, 03:17:28 PM »
The Devil's in the details...

So this is a bit of a cleanup post to document a few of the things that were hard at the end of the road.  If you're reading really carefully you might notice I predicted startup "next weekend" on Nov 6 and didn't fire it for almost three and half weeks.  Why?

Swaybar:



On the Corvette the pulleys and belts all sit ~1" closer to the block than do the F-body goods.  This meant that my swaybar would rotate up and INTO the bottom flange (AC portion) of the pulley when both sides compressed.  I eventually added 3/8" to the Grannies swaybar spacers for a total of 1 1/8" down and 1/2" forward.

I debated trying to machine off the A/C portion of the pulley since I can't run the corvette AC compressor with Grannies mounts.  See here for that whole debacle.  However, this is a balanced piece designed to spin 7000 rpm and I just didn't trust that it'd be right.

The added spacers still weren't getting me the clearance I wanted with the suspension compressed so I finally broke down and ordered the ASP underdrive pulley. My stock pulley was a smidge less than 7 1/2" diameter at the flange.  The ASP (-25% main, -10% AC) is about 6 5/8" 




Couldn't get the tape quite at the right surface ignore the tape readings.  What matters is that I gained another 3/8" and now I look good to go.  Running the bar spaced down that low meant I used the stock end links with ball joints and had to hammer the sheetmetal clevis (where it attaches to the lower arm) forward into a parallelagram to keep the links from binding.


Intake:

Eventually I intend to build myself a cold air box so I'm running my air filter off on the side of the bay.  I found an intake kit from a 96 impala on eBay that used 3 1/2" piping and had ordered that a while previously.  Once I saw how far it stuck out I knew I was going to need to fab some support for it.  I lengthened the leads to the MAF and bent some 1/8" aluminum bar stock into supports so my intake is basically on a tripod with the elbow being the 3rd leg.



I put all the flat faces of the barstock in the direction the engine will shift on its mounts and rubber mounted the far tips so it can flex.  That box under the headlight is the fuel pump resistor relay that's not needed with the ls1 and has since been removed.  (It  basically makes the mazda pump see partial voltage when not needed)Here's the final version:



By the way the elbow needed is a 4" to 3 1/2" not a pure 3 1/2" 90.  I don't know how I got this wrong but I did.  I called JTR to order the right one and Mike was cool enough to flow that to me as a thank you for taking all the pics during radiator install.  Props for good customer service.... :yeah:


PCV and steam tubes:
Blake MF'ing McBride
1988 Mazda RX7 - Turbo LS1/T56/ProEFI/8.8/Not Slow...   sold.
1965 Mustang Coupe - TT Coyote, TR6060, modern brakes/suspension...
2007 Aston Martin V8 Vantage - Exhaust/intake/tune/springs...
2016 BMW 428i xDrive Gran Coupe - Completely stock...ish

Offline digitalsolo

Re: Joel's LS1 FC master parts list/swap thread
« Reply #14 on: May 10, 2010, 03:17:44 PM »
I had a lot of problems getting the startup video to post online so Frijolee's Ls1 Rx7 Startup

A couple more things:

Throttle pedal:

I didn't like the fact that the mazda throttle cable was designed to drop through the firewall at a downward angle but the camaro cable I'm using goes straight through.  It means that the cable itself has to turn a downward corner and is undoubtedly going to saw through the plastic housing over time.  I also noticed I didn't have enough pedal travel to open the butterfly all the way.  I decided to kill two birds with one stone and called in a favor at work to weld in a 1" extension on the upper end to lengthen the pedal. 



The pedal itself unbolts easily.  I'll let you know how it works out but it looks like I should be a lot better off.

Finally much thanks goes to my wife Tamara for putting up with me being a basket case for the last couple months.  This shot was from last night as she was helping me bleed the brakes.



If you look close you can see the delrin shift knob.  I bought one designed after the c5r race car (but made for a c5) and lathed off a few hard edges.  Then I discover that the vette knobs use a 9/16-18 thread instead of the m16 x 1.5 on the camaro.  It's the same trans!  What the heck was the general of GM thinking?!?  Retapped the threads and it finally came out nice. 

Car should move on its own this weekend.  I have an appointment at the exhuast shop next week.

Joel
Blake MF'ing McBride
1988 Mazda RX7 - Turbo LS1/T56/ProEFI/8.8/Not Slow...   sold.
1965 Mustang Coupe - TT Coyote, TR6060, modern brakes/suspension...
2007 Aston Martin V8 Vantage - Exhaust/intake/tune/springs...
2016 BMW 428i xDrive Gran Coupe - Completely stock...ish