January 17, 2019, 10:00:33 PM

Author Topic: The JefeFD - Jordan Innovations' LSA/YSi FD Time Attack Car  (Read 38666 times)

Offline Jordan Innovations

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Re: The JefeFD - Jordan Innovations' LSA/YSi FD Time Attack Car
« Reply #225 on: June 28, 2018, 04:11:40 PM »
The newer cast stuff really isn't bad if you hit it with a flap disc first, especially on the outside.  Now welding the trapdoor into my 944 pan that had 30 years of crap in it...

Good to know!  I've done wheel barrels, engine blocks, suspension arms/knuckles, etc, all with a good flap disk bevel, a lot of pre-heating, and red tungsten.  Doesn't make it fun though haha.

Offline Cobranut

Re: The JefeFD - Jordan Innovations' LSA/YSi FD Time Attack Car
« Reply #226 on: June 28, 2018, 09:32:07 PM »
[noae]
[noae]
The bits in the pan, kinda looks like pieces of a reluctor wheel maybe? Can you fit the pieces together lol?
[/noae]

That's what I was thinking too, but even a chipped tooth would cause timing errors, and the Infinity is robust with a lot of things, but not timing patterns.

[noae]
Most of your pics won't load.   :banghead:  I'm curious to see the carnage too.
[/noae]

Weird!  Loads for some not others?  Should all be loading off the same Google Photos album I've used forever. 
I tried loading this page from a VM's browser, looked good - I can move some over to cubeupload if it's still not working?

[noae]
I don't know about those brass bits but they look scary as hell....really curious what they wind up being.

Ballin outta control on those oil squirters.  Having the block machined for them makes it even harder to stomach.  I wish there was a better option.  $80/squirter is pretty steep - important at your power level though.

The NT01's will definitely be slower than the TD's.  From what I read recently the TD's are still very fast.
[/noae]

My LSA block doesn't need to be machined, just need to pull the pin out of the squirters and thread 'em in.  But yeah I'd like to keep the bottom end together (as best I can with the aluminum block) on half- and full-mile airstrip stuff, and it seems pretty comfortable in this 1000-1100whp range, so I'll eat the $600 haha.

[noae]
They are very fast for two days... hence the name TD :)
[/noae]

When I got these I was only planning on running them as stickers (first day), and for warm-up the second day.  I've always treated them like slicks, so any additional street time or track days is just a bonus.  Now that they're not making them in these sizes and leadership has turned over @ Hankook, I'm interested to see how much fun I can get out of them.

[noae]
I will but haven't yet.  I seem to spend all my free time working on other folks stuff.  You wouldn't know anything about that right?  My primary rx7 efforts these days has been making wheels fit that don't quite want to...

I'm also having issues seeing pics.  I dig the scanning efforts and CTS-V intake though.
[/noae]
Haha wheel fitment is hard!   :yay:

I finally started working on the actual pan - cracked through in two places - along the 'front' edge and right through the middle of the scrapes on the 'bottom'.


Decided I'd take that leading edge off entirely, not trying to fill those cracks in a oil-soaked cast pan haha




Would have loved to have chucked this up in a vertical mill, but I don't have a Bridgeport anymore and didnt want to bug any friends with big machines.
Used a combination of a die grinder, grinding wheel, and sawzall (sawzall + WD40 = aluminum chips at an incredible rate)


The pan looks to be ~0.165" or so, not much thicker than this 1/8" flat stock.  I'd originally planned on welding two of these in there, and still might, but I'd weld the second piece in from the back for strength.  Not trying to give up the clearance, Clarence!




My TIG is buried behind a bunch of Hummer parts, so I'll try and dig it out this Sunday and burn these in.  I haven't welded cast aluminum in years, so I'll make sure to post detailed pics so Tracey can tell me to go hire a monkey to hold the torch  :cheers:
[/noae]

Well, NONE of those pictures loaded, and the ones that will on this page make it take 4 or 5 minutes to load the damn page.
Have you considered uploading pics as thumbnails so the pages load faster, and it also wouldn't eat up so much data every time I check into the site.
1995 FD, 7.0 Liter stroked LS3, T56, 8.8, Samberg kit.

Offline Jordan Innovations

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Re: The JefeFD - Jordan Innovations' LSA/YSi FD Time Attack Car
« Reply #227 on: June 29, 2018, 12:56:05 PM »
Well, NONE of those pictures loaded, and the ones that will on this page make it take 4 or 5 minutes to load the damn page.
Have you considered uploading pics as thumbnails so the pages load faster, and it also wouldn't eat up so much data every time I check into the site.

Weird!  Even full size they're only 1196x897 and auto-resize to 800x600 for formatting, that's strange.  I'll rehost and update the thread.  Thanks for the feedback!



Offline Jordan Innovations

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Re: The JefeFD - Jordan Innovations' LSA/YSi FD Time Attack Car
« Reply #228 on: January 09, 2019, 07:27:24 PM »
Well... it's been another 120days+ haha.

I got the pan welded up...


... and tried to get the oil squirters swapped out (they don't look like they're worth $80/ea do they?)


... but I couldn't get to all of them with the crank in there (whoever told me they could swap these out without pulling the crank must have been short stroke)... so out it came


and my little helper and I decided we'd take a look at the bearings while it was all out


Pretty good!  A little scuffing on two and four, almost through the coating, and a couple visible places where something went through (parts of a Vortech YSi or two I'm guessing haha), but all in all I was going to slap it back together before my machinist said "hey why don't you bring it up here and let me measure everything"






Rod bearings looked brand new, but I decided WTF, I'll let him measure it out.

Fast forward a couple hours, and he's convinced me that what I should really have is a LS Next aluminum block, and 6-bolt heads.  And I looked up the weight difference from an LSA block - 7lbs haha.  And a couple more for the heads.
And then I said, "If I do all that, I might as well slap a couple turbos on it and build for 2k hp"
So he said... yeah.  The Gen2 GTX35's would be sweet.  And they come in reverse/mirror image config too!

Later that night - https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/635575880546580


So I think the longblock is sold to a guy in MD that wants to run a Procharger on it, so if I sell the Vortech setup (complete with everything anyone would need to run it) I will make the move to Gen2 GTX3684RS's I think. 
I'm not the first person to take a perfectly well-functioning car and tear it apart in the search for more (unusable) power, but I'm sure I won't be the last  :cheers:  I've always wanted a well-done turbo setup and I'm not going to do it in my CTS-V, so here we are.

I've already pinged a couple of you find folks for advice/opinions, and I'm sure there'll be more, but here's what I'm thinking:
* Low mount turbos, just forward of the engine, similar to Bryan's yellow LSX TT setup, which was similar to Nick BeasTT's setup.  Up/forward is sexy, but keeping control of the heat is what I'm worried about for roadracing.  Going to camp out in my office with Solidworks CFD until I'm old and grey, but depending on what I find with gradual step-down's and velocity @ turbine inlet, might do printed inconel manifolds (in pieces that get welded together).
* LS Next2 1/2" studded, skirted block, with Dart's LS3 6-bolt heads and billet CCW cam
* Dailey's trick dry sump-on-the-pan setup, 4stg (one for turbo scavenge)
* JE or Diamond's new "LS2k" pistons, ~10:1 SCR
* Wiseco's Boostline rods
* Staying hydraulic cam but short-travel lifters, shaft rockers
* Air-to-air vertical-flow intercooler up front, probably use another Bell core and build the tanks myself, but this time I'll do the CFD before I cut and weld haha
* Keeping my ID2000's, Fuelab pumps, AEM Infinity electronics
* Keeping my RPM-built TR6060 and ACT twin-plate clutch (might have to go to the big pressure plate, the one I have is only rated to 1100ft-lbs haha)
* Keeping my Explorer 8.8 but might swap my 3.55's to taller gears.  What I really want is just a taller first, but that's pricey.

Offline freeskier7791

Re: The JefeFD - Jordan Innovations' LSA/YSi FD Time Attack Car
« Reply #229 on: January 10, 2019, 08:47:53 AM »
It would be cool to build some channels in the diffusser to cool the turbos.  I assume you would run the coolant lines to the turbos as well?

Offline Jordan Innovations

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Re: The JefeFD - Jordan Innovations' LSA/YSi FD Time Attack Car
« Reply #230 on: January 10, 2019, 06:00:37 PM »
It would be cool to build some channels in the diffusser to cool the turbos.  I assume you would run the coolant lines to the turbos as well?

Definitely water-cooling the turbos (and the Tial MVR wastegates, coincidentally), but I'm less concerned with them than I am with everything around them.  Keeping the manifolds relatively short and low, and heat wrapping/coating everything will help a ton.
Using the turbo inlets to depressurize the diffuser seems like a great idea though, until you discover on/off throttle porpoising (up/down oscillations caused by changes in front downforce).  Ironically the best place from an aero perspective to pull air from is the hot, large plenum that we call the engine bay, where the worst air is.

Offline digitalsolo

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Re: The JefeFD - Jordan Innovations' LSA/YSi FD Time Attack Car
« Reply #231 on: January 10, 2019, 09:58:15 PM »
Pffdt, pull air from the interior.   Cooler air and no aero issue.    Not nice to the meat in the seat inside though.  :)
Blake MF'ing McBride
1988 Mazda RX7 - Turbo LS1/T56/ProEFI/8.8/Not Slow...   sold.
1965 Mustang Coupe - TT Coyote, TR6060, modern brakes/suspension...  project car
2013 Focus ST3 - Stage 1 BPU

Offline MPbdy

Re: The JefeFD - Jordan Innovations' LSA/YSi FD Time Attack Car
« Reply #232 on: January 11, 2019, 12:27:58 AM »
Funny when you mentioned the bearings cheeking my first thought was CCW crank. Seems like you got it all covered.

Ever figure out what happened with the brass in the pan?

Offline freeskier7791

Re: The JefeFD - Jordan Innovations' LSA/YSi FD Time Attack Car
« Reply #233 on: January 11, 2019, 07:16:02 AM »
Definitely water-cooling the turbos (and the Tial MVR wastegates, coincidentally), but I'm less concerned with them than I am with everything around them.  Keeping the manifolds relatively short and low, and heat wrapping/coating everything will help a ton.
Using the turbo inlets to depressurize the diffuser seems like a great idea though, until you discover on/off throttle porpoising (up/down oscillations caused by changes in front downforce).  Ironically the best place from an aero perspective to pull air from is the hot, large plenum that we call the engine bay, where the worst air is.

Interesting, I know very little about aerodynamics, it's been awhile since I took Fluid Dynamics.  I would think that proper heat shielding and coating and wrapping will help a lot with underhood temps.

Offline Jordan Innovations

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Re: The JefeFD - Jordan Innovations' LSA/YSi FD Time Attack Car
« Reply #234 on: January 12, 2019, 06:04:40 PM »
Pffdt, pull air from the interior.   Cooler air and no aero issue.    Not nice to the meat in the seat inside though.  :)

Haha can you imagine?  Spin em around on the v-bands, pop some 4in inlets through the firewall, and get the loudest turbo noises imaginable  :yay:
Guarantee some Evo kids on the internet would think its the coolest thing in the world.

Funny when you mentioned the bearings cheeking my first thought was CCW crank. Seems like you got it all covered.

Ever figure out what happened with the brass in the pan?

Yes!  We looked at everything and my machinist said it looked like a ball bearing cage... that's when we remembered that a YSi met it's ends early in testing, either from surge or from inadequate blower crankcase venting, and that's the only thing that'd have bearing cages like that.  RIP  :-[

Interesting, I know very little about aerodynamics, it's been awhile since I took Fluid Dynamics.  I would think that proper heat shielding and coating and wrapping will help a lot with underhood temps.

I've been posting a lot of Solidworks stuff on the Hummer forums as I develop this Duramax swap kit's front cooling stack that actually has a chance of working, and I imagine I'll do the same here.  I'm not going whole-hog on the whole body/frame/powertrain/heat exchangers like a pro would, but just a 'quick' verification that what I'm thinking will work well enough.  Glad that stuff's at least a little interesting to the crew here!


Offline Sacrilegious-FD

Re: The JefeFD - Jordan Innovations' LSA/YSi FD Time Attack Car
« Reply #235 on: January 14, 2019, 04:05:35 PM »
Ace, really looking forward to seeing how this turns out.....

Offline Cobranut

Re: The JefeFD - Jordan Innovations' LSA/YSi FD Time Attack Car
« Reply #236 on: January 14, 2019, 09:54:48 PM »
It would be cool to build some channels in the diffusser to cool the turbos.  I assume you would run the coolant lines to the turbos as well?

Definitely water-cooling the turbos (and the Tial MVR wastegates, coincidentally), but I'm less concerned with them than I am with everything around them.  Keeping the manifolds relatively short and low, and heat wrapping/coating everything will help a ton.
Using the turbo inlets to depressurize the diffuser seems like a great idea though, until you discover on/off throttle porpoising (up/down oscillations caused by changes in front downforce).  Ironically the best place from an aero perspective to pull air from is the hot, large plenum that we call the engine bay, where the worst air is.

I can't really imagine that intake air volume would be enough to significantly change downforce at high speeds.  LOL
1995 FD, 7.0 Liter stroked LS3, T56, 8.8, Samberg kit.

Offline Jordan Innovations

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Re: The JefeFD - Jordan Innovations' LSA/YSi FD Time Attack Car
« Reply #237 on: January 15, 2019, 02:14:20 PM »
Ace, really looking forward to seeing how this turns out.....
Cool!  Thanks, me too haha

It would be cool to build some channels in the diffusser to cool the turbos.  I assume you would run the coolant lines to the turbos as well?

Definitely water-cooling the turbos (and the Tial MVR wastegates, coincidentally), but I'm less concerned with them than I am with everything around them.  Keeping the manifolds relatively short and low, and heat wrapping/coating everything will help a ton.
Using the turbo inlets to depressurize the diffuser seems like a great idea though, until you discover on/off throttle porpoising (up/down oscillations caused by changes in front downforce).  Ironically the best place from an aero perspective to pull air from is the hot, large plenum that we call the engine bay, where the worst air is.

I can't really imagine that intake air volume would be enough to significantly change downforce at high speeds.  LOL

You wouldn't think so, right?  I ran through this with my blower setup, looking at where to pull air from and thinking the windshield cowl would be high pressure and fight drag.  The end result was, when you actually have an "aero car" (where the aero changes more of the driving dynamics than the mechanical geometry), oscillations/porpoising caused by either choking off front flow (touching the front edge of the splitter down), or changing front downforce are dangerous.  Front aero changes rear their heads at corner entry, and it's weird enough late-braking a high downforce car under the best of circumstances.

When you look at trying to pull off the back of the front diffuser - call it ~100lbs/min of flow average when you're on the gas (although it could be double that!), ~1400CFM at 80*F.  Realize you're talking about picking it up from the ideal area to help front diffuser performance - and then chop the throttle off, and hit the brakes, and transition the car while it's porpoising.  Consensus among aero dudes I talked to was that having amazing mid-corner, on-throttle grip would be nice, but not at the expense of screwing up braking zones.

« Last Edit: January 15, 2019, 02:19:32 PM by Jordan Innovations »