November 26, 2022, 01:41:08 PM

Author Topic: Joel's LS1 FC parts list/swap thread (remixed)  (Read 683842 times)

Offline frijolee

Re: Joel's LS1 FC parts list/swap thread (remixed)
« Reply #90 on: June 21, 2010, 04:47:34 PM »
Head Bolt Differences
 
The second bolt problem is that GM changed the head bolts in '04...  The same exact ls6 block casting number through '03 uses a blend of long and short head bolts (not counting the little guys near the valley cover) while the '04 uses all short bolts.  I couldn't believe it...  The subtle lsx differences will drive you crazy.  The difference is between ARP 134-3609 (what I have) and ARP 134-3610 (what I need).
 
So between the bolt issues and a slightly bent oil pickup tube (from the windage tray taking a beating right below it) we didn't make it to motor drop it.  The cam is easier to install on an engine stand anyways.
 
I did get the engine bay cleaned up.  A little paint (after a serious masking job by Jack and Mike)
 

 
 
My driveshaft loop was just far enough toward the back of the car that it made it hard for the DS to dangle down enough to clear the diff flange for removal/install.  Mike's a mad man with an angle grinder and here shows off his hand model skills with the result.  What you might not see is the 75 deg chamfer we added to the rear lower edge to get that extra little bit of dangle.
 

 
 
 
Working hard with friends is just so rad...  I can't get over it.  Who would have thought we'd have seen this pic a year ago?
 

 
 
As we get late into the evening Mike proves he can work air tools and drink at the same time.  DS loop reinstall.
 

 
 
Special thanks to the crew, and special thanks to the wife for keeping us in food and drink all afternoon and evening.
 
Here's us...
 
LS2 stroker FC, Mandeville big brakes, widebody, etc
Build thread:  http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=1274.0
www.roninspeedworks.com

LargeOrangeFont says: "Joel is right, and I love Joel. But his car sounds like the wrath of God."   ;)

Offline frijolee

Re: Joel's LS1 FC parts list/swap thread (remixed)
« Reply #91 on: June 21, 2010, 04:47:47 PM »
Cracked Rod Bearing Concentricity:
 
I found a weird misalignment in one of my rod caps?  Cracked rods are only supposed to go together one way and once you clamp them down the seam all but disappears.
 
That was not the case for one rod in my engine after I torqued (and measured bolt stretch) a set of ARP pros.
 

 
 
With some careful maneuvering you get access to the big end of the rod with crank in the motor and heads on.  By the way I marked cap and bearings DR and PASS for driver side/passenger side.  In some of the pics where you only see ?PASS? it looks like a pass/fail thing: it's not.
 

 
 
I tried using some layout fluid prior to torquing it to see if the seam was actually shifting as I clamped it.  Fluid comes out blue and is designed to scrape off revealing bare metal if there?s any shear force.
 

 
 
Torquing it down requires some creativity.  Can?t scratch anything?
 

 
 
T bore gauges are kind tough to use so I measured it three times each way to get consistency.
 

 
 
Here?s the part where it gets really weird?  Measuring across the seam high to low both ways revealed a 0.008? misalignment rod to cap which is obviously not good (bearing to crank clearance should be ~0.002-0.0025?).  However when I do the same measurement with the bearing in place it?s ~0.001 THE OTHER WAY, meaning if the cap was shifted left, the bearing seam is a smidge shifted to the right.  This is exactly counter intuitive of the problem at the bearing surface I was expected and it?s only on one side of the bearing, the other is flawless.
 
The Dykem didn?t show anything unusual in terms of seam slippage.  You?d should see pronounced points of blue showing shiny underneath that aren?t there (what?s seen in the pic is just from the camera flash).
 

 
 
Rods are not interchangeable between all ls1s so be sure you know what you have if you ever try to mix and match.
 

 
 
At the end of the day all the bearing surfaces looked perfect so I decided to run it.  I just talked this through with my engine builder friend Ollie who gave me one last recommendation:  He suggested I take a file and just smooth off any potential lip on the bearing surface to be sure it can't snag.  It'll basically be a chamfer that runs 0.100" on the bearing surface at a angle to the seam so I'm only going a couple thou deep.  Beyond that, he agreed with my determination.
 
The motor will see the full normal break in period before I start pushing things and I?m adding a few gauges so I should be better able to keep tabs on things already.
 
 
-Joel
LS2 stroker FC, Mandeville big brakes, widebody, etc
Build thread:  http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=1274.0
www.roninspeedworks.com

LargeOrangeFont says: "Joel is right, and I love Joel. But his car sounds like the wrath of God."   ;)

Offline frijolee

Re: Joel's LS1 FC parts list/swap thread (remixed)
« Reply #92 on: June 21, 2010, 04:48:04 PM »
GTO vs. F-body Differences?
 
I can confirm that the belt spacing is the same for 04 GTO LS1 and F-body. 
Differences I know of:
-Front sump oil pan (GTO) vs. Rear sump (vette)?  you need the pickukp tubes, dipsticks and windage trays to match (technically you can cut down the GTO windage tray to be 3/4 length like the F-body?s but it?s a pain and takes quite a bit of cutting).
 
-The GTO has provisions for the dipstick in block like vette and f-body, despite it using a dipstick that penetrates the pan.  This little plug knocks out from the inside pretty easily.  Like my glam rock fingernail polish?  (AKA Dykem)
 

 
A side note on dipsticks:
 
My old vette dipstick tube got damaged in the blown motor so I had to order new parts.  I went f-body just in case the oil level measured might be different (it's about 20 mm different for the GTO but being front sump I assume this accounts for the slope of the motor.)  I can now confirm that both f-body and vette?s measure the same level internally.  You can?t mix and match as the run outside the motor is different but I can at least rule out dipstick inaccuracy vs pan from being a possible cause of my blow up.
 
-The GTO using a self exciting alternator (which I hate and seems determined to suck 0.2 amp anytime the car is off.).
 
-The GTO also comes with the ls6 pcv and all the most modern LS6 goodies so that makes things easy.
LS2 stroker FC, Mandeville big brakes, widebody, etc
Build thread:  http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=1274.0
www.roninspeedworks.com

LargeOrangeFont says: "Joel is right, and I love Joel. But his car sounds like the wrath of God."   ;)

Offline frijolee

Re: Joel's LS1 FC parts list/swap thread (remixed)
« Reply #93 on: June 21, 2010, 04:48:21 PM »
Heater hose relocation?
 
I relocated my hose hoses to pass through the firewall in a new location so I don?t have quite such a mess behind the intake manifold. 
 
These are the key fittings you need to find at Home Depot? 
 

 
 
It was an isle or two over from the section with most of the brass elbow and the like so it may take some looking.  You can get plastic elbows from quite a few parts stores but I just couldn?t bring myself to trust them.
 
Bends on the heater core cut off and the tips slightly flared.
 

 
 
Here?s the full version on the inside of the car.   It?s a bit sketchy having hose inside the cabin but so I?ll have to change this out every 5 years or so.  I?m using the heat shrink hose clamps by Gates Co., the product line is ?Powergrip?. 
 

 
 
It?s easier to see where the holes go on the engine back side?.  Be warned you have to dodge a bracket for the AC unit inside the car so this is definitely a measure twice cut once job. 
 

 
 
I reused the stock grommets with my new firewall holes.  Also note that I added short sheet metal screws to the heat shield because I had the glue go bad on a former piece which ripped off in the wind...
LS2 stroker FC, Mandeville big brakes, widebody, etc
Build thread:  http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=1274.0
www.roninspeedworks.com

LargeOrangeFont says: "Joel is right, and I love Joel. But his car sounds like the wrath of God."   ;)

Offline frijolee

Re: Joel's LS1 FC parts list/swap thread (remixed)
« Reply #94 on: June 21, 2010, 04:48:30 PM »
Wiring Cleanup:
 
Car?s finally entering the put it back together phase.  Did a startling amount of wiring/soldering cleaning up aftermarket power window switches and prepping the car to run AC. 
 

 
 
I fortified my stereo surround because the plastic is woefully insufficient?
 

 
 
Dash is back in (multiple sets of hands recommended for this job), all gauge pod wiring is run, and the pod itself came out awesome.  Added a leather s5 steering wheel too.
 

 
 
I?ve got the lengthening of the idiot light harness complete and run but that?ll have to wait until after SNS.
 
 
Motor mounts shouldn?t see any twisting force so I lightened those up too.
 

 
 
Block is getting close.  I can see light at the end of the tunnel for making SNS but if anything goes wrong I'm screwed.
 
Tonight: Finish interior
Tomorrow: Finish motor build (hopefully cam and oil pickup get delivered on time)
Wednesday: Drop in the motor
Thursday: Detail the car and finally buff the fenders and what not
Friday: clean up leftovers and maybe head for Danzan?s for the evening.
 
-Joel
LS2 stroker FC, Mandeville big brakes, widebody, etc
Build thread:  http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=1274.0
www.roninspeedworks.com

LargeOrangeFont says: "Joel is right, and I love Joel. But his car sounds like the wrath of God."   ;)

Offline frijolee

Re: Joel's LS1 FC parts list/swap thread (remixed)
« Reply #95 on: June 21, 2010, 04:48:56 PM »
Cam Swap and Buttoning Up the Motor
 
Stock Cam out
 

 
 
Futral F13-112 in (doing this with the motor on a stand upside down definitely makes it easier.)
 

 
 
Stock timing gear pulled
 

 
 
Adjustable timing set installed and P to V verified (check springs and feeler gauges). 
 

 
 
I needed to run ~2 degrees of retard before P to V was acceptable at 0.080 intake and 0.116 exhaust (you need 0.080 and 0.100).  At factory timing I only had 0.054 clearance on the intake. 
 
Started the rocker job but couldn't finish it because some of my Harland Sharp rockers aren't smooth moving anymore (could be metal junk in there).  I think I'm just going to run the stock GTO rockers for a while because those are easy to change in car and it'll let me investigate without the time pressure.
 
I did flush all the oil passages in the pushrods to be sure I didn't have anything lingering.
 

 
 
Still think I can make Seven Not Stock: Steaks n Beer, but it's going to be close.
LS2 stroker FC, Mandeville big brakes, widebody, etc
Build thread:  http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=1274.0
www.roninspeedworks.com

LargeOrangeFont says: "Joel is right, and I love Joel. But his car sounds like the wrath of God."   ;)

Offline frijolee

Re: Joel's LS1 FC parts list/swap thread (remixed)
« Reply #96 on: June 21, 2010, 04:49:06 PM »
Clutch #3, Stock ls6 w/ Fidanza flywheel
 
Nothing special to report other than to say that the feel of the stock clutch is actually pretty nice all things considered.  I definitely prefer it over the ?long style? McLeod twin.  I just had too many issues with that thing.
 
Only bummer...  It?s looking like the clutch issues are related to the clutch dust problem more than the style of clutch.  Oh well, I?ve got a deadline to make and this is the fastest way to get the car done.
 

 

 
There?s a little bit of glaze to clean up but everything looks in good shape otherwise.
LS2 stroker FC, Mandeville big brakes, widebody, etc
Build thread:  http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=1274.0
www.roninspeedworks.com

LargeOrangeFont says: "Joel is right, and I love Joel. But his car sounds like the wrath of God."   ;)

Offline frijolee

Re: Joel's LS1 FC parts list/swap thread (remixed)
« Reply #97 on: June 21, 2010, 04:49:23 PM »
Seven Not Stock: Steaks and Beer
 
Was up until about 3 am wrenching the night before when I realized there was no way I was going to make SevenStock 2008.  Oh well, better catch a few hours ZZZs and finish the car right and then go straight to Dan?s place for the Seven Not Stock after party.
 
Why is it when you?re running late things seem to take forever?  Intake manifold on, coolant refilled, route the gauge sender wires, re-wrap the engine harness.  Throw the splash guard back on the bottom of the car.  Wheels on?  Quick wash?  Motor takes a long time to make oil pressure cranking on starter alone.  Did it take this long last time?  Gotta go, gotta go, gotta go.
 
OK, It?s 3:00 pm car?s finally ready.  It fires on the first try ( :D :D ).  Father-in-law riding shotgun, and we?ve got the trophies and steak and rub with us and we?re on the road.  That?s weird: part of the dashboard isn?t working and I can?t see my engine voltage [ED note, one of the two main connectors installed wrong].  Oh well, don?t care. 
 
-Driving.
 
-6 miles down the road and my aftermarket gauges start dropping out one by one.  That?s not good.
 
-Half a mile after that and the car starts to stutter and die.  Gotta get it off the freeway.  Dead at the stoplight.  Screw it.  We push it into the local Red Lobster parking lot, shove it into a space, and leave it.  Call the friends we were caravanning with.  They come pick us up.  We?ll deal with the tow later.  [Ed note: self exciting alternator not charging and that?s as far as I could get on battery alone.]
 
So I made the party but it?s my second time attending with no car.  Still had a good time and had lots of complements on the BBQ and festivities.
 
Pics:
 
Dan
 

 
 
Steve
 

 
 
Andrew
 

 
 
Matt
 

 
 
Robert (hiding his rotary :D)
 

 
 
Mark
 

 

 
 
Award winners take a swim?
 

 

 

 
 
GNX7 and me (plus one of my new favorite shirts).
 

 
 
LS7 = wicked
 

 
 
Best FC, Fastest lap of Buttonwillow (to date), Best FD...
 

 
 
Good times had by all? missing car not-withstanding.
-Joel
« Last Edit: June 22, 2010, 06:23:03 AM by frijolee »
LS2 stroker FC, Mandeville big brakes, widebody, etc
Build thread:  http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=1274.0
www.roninspeedworks.com

LargeOrangeFont says: "Joel is right, and I love Joel. But his car sounds like the wrath of God."   ;)

Offline frijolee

Re: Joel's LS1 FC parts list/swap thread (remixed)
« Reply #98 on: June 21, 2010, 04:49:36 PM »
Speedo Functional via Cable-X
 
Well, I've been driving the car for about a month now.  I may try analyzing the oil at my next change to see if I can get any indication if that rod bearing is seated properly.  One minor update...  I finally got my cable x box installed.  Decided that I didn't want it underhood because the driver's shock area is already so cluttered with the MC and all.
 
Went poking around under the dash and finally settled on installing it behind the dead pedal.  It's just large enough and I can remove it pretty easily if I need access to the fuse box.
 
Laying it out...  I had to shave down a few of those ribs on the back of the dead pedal part way to get this to package nicely.
 

 
 
Hmmm, it appears they made my cable's drive portion a bit too short.  It's supposed to interface to the silver bit w/ the encoder sticking out of the motor.
 

 
 
Removed the stand-off and shaved down the threaded attachment portion.
 

 
 
I needed a hair more than this because if the cable rides up toward the dash it can barely slip loose.  I ended up mounting the cable attachment from the inside of the box and reassembling from there.  Got to drill out the opening which meant some healthy masking tape to avoid metal shavings getting into the electronics.  Here she is reassembled and mounted to the pedal with some 1/8" thick double sided foam (the bottom bolt of the box attaches but not the top one).
 

 
 
And here's the full package...  Obviously, there's a cover for the box not yet shown...
 

 
 
It took a bit of playing with dip switches before it was right but if you have the spreadsheet it's pretty easy to trial and error your way to the correct result.  I couldn't remember if we wired this from the ECU or trans so I just tried a couple.  The ECU setting made it rev out like crazy when I was barely moving.  The trans setting for my correct rear end info indicated 120 mph when I was really doing 75 so I just scaled the rear end setting.  120 / 75 = 1.6, 1.6 x 4.10 for the mazda t2 rear = 6.56.  Input rear end of 6.56 to the spreadsheet set the pins and I now have a functional speedo.
 
It?s a little slow to respond if you?re on it hard but seems to work fine otherwise.
 
-Joel
 
PS spreadsheet attached with a few added notes at the bottom on wiring and how to conduct test mode.
 
LS2 stroker FC, Mandeville big brakes, widebody, etc
Build thread:  http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=1274.0
www.roninspeedworks.com

LargeOrangeFont says: "Joel is right, and I love Joel. But his car sounds like the wrath of God."   ;)

Offline frijolee

Re: Joel's LS1 FC parts list/swap thread (remixed)
« Reply #99 on: June 21, 2010, 04:49:58 PM »
Idiot Light Relocation
 
Quote
Great information, as always.  I like what you did with the ebay gauge cluster in the idiot surround.  Very nice!

Thanks yo.  I always find wet sanding theraputic for some reason.  Here's the second half of the install (idiot light relocation):
 
Tear down the idiot light cluster and you find this board...
 

 
 
I wanted to install it below my radio in the stock pocket but found it was a bit too long
 

 
 
That really was the best place for it so I decided to ditch the clock portion and cut the board in half.  Resplice all the leads and you get this:
 

 
 
One end becomes a connector and the other gets potted with RTV into what's left of my pocket.
 

 
 
Need to find the right shade of flat black paint to clean this up a bit and install my accusump switch in the right side of this but it seems to be working out OK.
 

 
 
BTW I tried and tried to figure out how to integrate the stock curved plexiglas cover only to realize that it was hard to see with the lights recessed and I would get some glare.  On net I think the simple way I ended up with is best.
 
-------------------------------------
 
Prosport Gauge Rewiring?
 
I?m still loving the pod I built however, I discovered that the smoke lenses on the Prosports make the amber color option too dark to be usable in the daytime.  As such I rewired these for white in the daytime and amber at night.  That?s definitely the only way to run them in my opinion (it also makes the warning red face flash a lot more obvious).
 
My idiot relocation left me a bit of space so I integrated an override switch for the Accusump.  [Ed note:  this switch doesn?t change from ?on? very often but I found I?ve used it more than I expected already.  It?s the stupid things where you forget to close your sunroof and have to turn the car back on to do so but don?t want to dump the oil charge.]
 
I finally wired in the check engine light option too.  I already had an OBD2 port but didn?t have that particular idiot light functional yet.  It?s a direct connect from the output of the ECU to the input wire on the idiot light cluster.
 
Here?s everything in the completed version.
 
LS2 stroker FC, Mandeville big brakes, widebody, etc
Build thread:  http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=1274.0
www.roninspeedworks.com

LargeOrangeFont says: "Joel is right, and I love Joel. But his car sounds like the wrath of God."   ;)

Offline frijolee

Re: Joel's LS1 FC parts list/swap thread (remixed)
« Reply #100 on: June 21, 2010, 04:50:12 PM »
I?ve been chasing some slop in my drivetrain for a while now and have recently learned a few things so I thought I?d post up. 
 
Notes on Half Shafts (929 etc):
 
It started when I noticed some play in the stub axles that didn?t seem to be tied to pinion movement.  There was a little bit of motion the inner CVs relative to the axles so I went ahead and bought three drivers side axles (two plus a spare) from the 88-91 Mazda 929 per this thread.   [Sorry but the cross reference is probably gone].
 
When I finally got around to attempting the installation I found the axles were too long and looked guaranteed to bind.
 

 
 
After talking to the tech support guys at CVs Unlimited they claimed I needed the PASSENGER side axle is the one I needed and they were sold out.  However, junkyard inspection since then (per the above linked thread) finally proved, that DRIVERS side is the one.  I just got sent the wrong thing.  I guess the moral of the story double check length before you buy.  CV Unlimited was kind enough to accept a return which isn?t necessarily a bad thing considering I found this video on what exactly rebuilding axles means.

From their site:  http://www.cvunlimited.com/remananaxle.htm

Youtube:
 
I knew there was likely regrinding involved but this video is CRAZY (jump to 2:10 if you want the part that blew my mind).  That?s not the type of high tolerance machining I was expecting to see.  That said, I did get one good bit of info out of the conversation?   Apparently it?s almost always the outer CVs that go bad.  The inner CVs usually last a long time because they operate on a greater surface area.
 
In the meantime, once I got the axles off it was clear that the play I?d seen was really in the diff and the axles were OK.  If and when I ever have an inner CV problem I?ll send my existing axles back to Raxles for a rebuild and get new parts installed (as opposed to regrinds). 
 
Most folks break stub axles anyways so it?s not like a different axle and cup really buy me much?
 
Instead I decided to rebuild the differential
« Last Edit: June 24, 2010, 07:15:07 AM by frijolee »
LS2 stroker FC, Mandeville big brakes, widebody, etc
Build thread:  http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=1274.0
www.roninspeedworks.com

LargeOrangeFont says: "Joel is right, and I love Joel. But his car sounds like the wrath of God."   ;)

Offline frijolee

Re: Joel's LS1 FC parts list/swap thread (remixed)
« Reply #101 on: June 21, 2010, 04:50:30 PM »
Rebuilding an S4 T2 Differential
 
The s4 diff seems pretty straightforward to set up.  That said, I had a couple of strange findings in mine so I found that following the FSM verbatim yielded some strange measurements?
 
I started by pulling out the stub axles and taking off the cover exposing the diff.  If you don?t have a factory service manual (FSM) you?ll want one and there are links at TeamFC3S... Second Gen RX-7 Performance Site

 
The backlash between ring and pinion was perfect, but I still seemed to have play in the stub axles so I decided to dig deeper and pulled the diff.
 

 

 
 
There are a series of measurement in the FSM that result in two tolerance stack ups relative to the differential internals. 
 
-One tolerance stack up measures all the clutch plates, springs, and the two halves of the spider gear housing.  This is responsible for friction.  My numbers were a little on the high side of the tolerance but still acceptable so I just switched a few plates around to give things fresh friction surfaces (not that the existing ones were in seriously worn, but why not)?  and called it a day.
 
-The other tolerance results in clearance to the spider gears.  You use thrust washers to define total backlash of the internal gears.  The FSM is written such that you take 94.00 mm and subtract measurement to yield your total clearance.  (Note that the FSM never refers to this as backlash but as near as I can tell that?s what?s going on.)  If required you can buy thrust washers in +0.1 or +0.2 mm (Mazdatrix carries everything you?ll need).
 
Here?s where it gets weird.  My total tolerance stack up for the spider gears measured 92.40 mm.  That?s 1.60 mm clear on a tolerance that?s supposed to be 0.10 to 0.40 mm.  That?s a HUGE variance. 
 
I triple checked that I measured it correctly, I checked for appreciable wear in all the pieces and found none. I even double checked the calibration on my calipers.  So then I measured the total space available inside the two halves of the diff itself (in case there was a miss print in the FSM and it was supposed to be 93.00mm minus your measurement).  Total space was found to 94.13mm.
 
Turns out I actually DID have about 1.73 mm (.068?) total clearance in the inner housing stack up.  I reassembled the diff without the clutch plates so I could measure just the spider backlash gap.  You can see it in the pic here and I confirmed with feeler gauges.
 

 
 
This is what caused the perceived slop in the half shafts.  Unfortunately it wasn?t something I could solve +0.2 mm thicker than normal thrust washer on each side.  Instead I took some more measurements and ordered shims from McMaster.  You can buy steel shims in any thickness your heart desires using a 1 7/8? OD, 1 3/8? ID, which is close enough to the factory thrust washers that it should work fine.
 

 
 
There are a couple things to be aware of.  First when you measure the overall clearance with feeler gauges you need to be aware that total height of the spider gear stack up changes as it rotates.  With everything tight to iron at all times the stack up rises and falls by 0.025? as you turn the spiders.  This means that although I measured 0.068? clear I really only had 0.043 clear. 
 

 

 
 
I had bought some thin 0.004? shims with the logic being that adding one 0.004? on each side changes the total tolerance by 0.2 mm so it?s a small enough step to put me in the target 0.10-0.40 mm range.  The problem is that this is a wear surface and I wasn?t sure I?d trust a thin shim in a sliding application never to bind or rumple because the surfaces aren?t fully supported. After playing with shims for a good while, I finally bought 0.015? shims and installed one on each side.  McMaster sells a 0.020? shim that I debated about but decided that 0.003? was too small a clearance to try to run?especially considering I wasn?t torquing the ring gear on while taking measurements so I might lose some tolerance with the assembly fully torqued down.
 
By the way, the Spider Gear Outputs (the splined pieces that the Stub Axles insert into) only have ~0.042? play on each side until they bottom out.  Essentially if your backlash was REALLY loose the spider gear  outputs would rub on their housing instead of floating inside like they?re supposed to.  My 0.068? (0.034? per side) clearance was just enough to avoid rubbing hard parts.  No damage but I?m glad I tore into it to check.
 
On final install I put my 0.015? shims between the diff frame and the existing thrust washer on each end so they can?t slip out of the notches in the frame.  (If you put them between the thrust washer and spider assembly they might.)
 
This was a test fit with a couple shims...
 

 
 
Now it was just a matter of reassembly per FSM specs.  My spring plates were installed backward when I opened it up so I fixed that (shouldn?t really matter given it?s just a belleville spring but this way should have a smidge more leverage and therefore harder bite).  Backlash for the ring and pinion is set with threaded collars on either side of the main diff bearing races.  You may have to make yourself a custom spanner wrench tool but that?s pretty easy. 
 

 
 
It looks like moving one tooth on the bearing adjustors (procedure: loosen one side first then tighten the opposite) changes backlash by 0.002?.  I left mine at the factory 0.004?
 
Bearing preload is measured via the total deflection of the two bearing supports.  It takes a big pair of calipers so be warned that this might require a tool purchase.  (I only had a 6? set.)
 
My diff has never whined or had appreciable problems beyond the slop I just solved so I didn?t replace bearings or get into the pinion crush sleeve.  I did however change out the front seal because I was starting to show signs of leakage.  That took a little playing with a three jaw puller set and some shims to keep the jaws biting but once set up it came off easy.
 

 
 
 
The front pinion seal has a nice metal lip on it so it?s easy to tap back in place with a hammer and a socket extension (used like a blunt drift).
 

 
 
The little custom tool I had was handy for retorquing.
 
 
 
 
You follow the FSM procedures on the dialing in preload on the crush tube but it's pretty easy.
Diff done, and that?s one less thing to think about.
LS2 stroker FC, Mandeville big brakes, widebody, etc
Build thread:  http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=1274.0
www.roninspeedworks.com

LargeOrangeFont says: "Joel is right, and I love Joel. But his car sounds like the wrath of God."   ;)

Offline frijolee

Re: Joel's LS1 FC parts list/swap thread (remixed)
« Reply #102 on: June 21, 2010, 04:50:52 PM »
Setting Pinion Angle & More T2 Rear End Support
 
I?d already been running a pinion snubber and some spacers on the rear diff mounts to help further support things.  However, just for giggles I took some video while driving the car on jackstands.  If you revved the engine and dumped the clutch in an of the middle gears I?d hear a knocking sound.  Turns out the sound was the entire rear end rocking back and forth.  This is exactly what I was trying to prevent with my spacers and the snubber.
 
Well I think I?m getting closer to a real solution.  Rear end is now quite a bit more planted than before and I only rarely get wheel hop.  I used Mazda Comp bushings throughout the diff but in hindsight I think only the front Mazda Comp mount is probably required.
 
Even with a snubber my stock front mount was starting to tear.
 

 
 
Before I started this process I used an inclinometer to measure pinion vs driveshaft angles and found I had some room for improvement.  Trans to driveshaft was right around 2 degrees but driveshaft to pinion was closer to 3.5 deg. 
 
There are only three diff mounts (well 4 if you count the snubber).  I tweaked them all to get what I wanted.
 
Front mount: Mazda comp, all the way.  It?s much stiffer rubber and the rubber actually comes through the back of the mount instead of just being glued to a steel face. 
 

 
 
The mount itself is ~1 lb lighter than the stock mount.  I had no plans to use the extension for the weight (acts like a damper) so I cut mine off and saved another 0.5 lb there.
 

 
 
To help my pinion angle I needed to lower the pinion/raise the diff so I carved the front mount bracket at the subframe about an 1/8? deeper. 
 

 
 
Some folks weld an additional gusset between the two slots but this is usually because they welded the front mount solid (a 100% sure fire way of breaking parts in fatigue).  I like the factory 2 hole washer plate so I left that alone.
 
Pinion snubber:  Lowering the front mount in it?s bracket meant that I needed to shim my pinion snubber downward.  I gave it about 1/16? of preload (interference on install).  My old front mount sagged a bit over time so I wanted to give the new one a fighting chance of staying tight to that diff mount.
 

 
 
Rear mounts:  I had a plan that had me sorely tempted to try using the stockers.  However on closer inspection I found some signs of cracking so I decided to drop in the Mazda Comp rear mounts I had on hand.  Removal of the mounts is 50x the PITA that installing the new ones is.  I used a hold saw to cut out the inners.
 

 
 
The perimeter metal bits are two hemispheres but they?re so damn tight that I couldn?t budge them despite repeated hammering.  I finally took a jigsaw and cut into the bushing in about 8 places to relieve some of the stress.  Then I was finally able to beat the suckers out. 
 

 
 
Install was a snap.  Used a bit of grease on the outside (both to help it slide and to help shield against dissimilar metal corrosion).  Also found that a stub axle works great as a driver.  I used a spare, but if you were careful and wrapped the sensitive parts I could see using one of the real ones.  Obviously a few pics are out of order from what I really did as this is much easier when the cover is detached from the diff carrier vs. the fully assembled rear end...
 

 
 
So what?s this added support plan I keep talking about?  Previously I?d build some spacer plates to make the crown looking rubber support from below engage better.  Upon closer inspection I realized I had enough threads available on the big frame studs so instead of using a spacer I cut my diff mounts down and gave the crown about 1/8? of interference. 
 

 
 
I also cut down the mount on the topside.  This will change your pinion angle so be sure it?ll help before doing so.  However, in my case I both helped the angle and made it so that the perimeter rubber will bottom out on the underside of the car earlier.  This is still rubber so noise inside the car barely increased and the payoff was huge.  This also means that my diff is about 1/8? higher at the low point which is helpful when using some jacks to lift the rear end.
 
Lots more thread protrusion than normal... (probably should have taken the pic prior to painting the raw steel where I cut it off but you get the idea)
 

 
 
Better yet, I don?t have to run the spacers which were never quite big enough anyways.  One of the crown bits had splayed around the edges of my spacer previously and had started to cut the rubber.  No big deal because I had spares.
 

 
 
Upon driving the car I can finally say I?m getting close to the rear suspension I?ve always wanted.  I?d still like to try the spherical bearings for the control arms as I agree that individual camber adjusters (AWR or MMR) can create some misalignment.  I?m also trying out the no-rear swaybar setup.   It?s counterintuitive to me as the car still plows in some situations but it?s supposed to help the linkages move more freely so I?ll give it a try and see what happens.  Too many folks swear by the setup not to give it a try and see for myself.
LS2 stroker FC, Mandeville big brakes, widebody, etc
Build thread:  http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=1274.0
www.roninspeedworks.com

LargeOrangeFont says: "Joel is right, and I love Joel. But his car sounds like the wrath of God."   ;)

Offline frijolee

Re: Joel's LS1 FC parts list/swap thread (remixed)
« Reply #103 on: June 21, 2010, 04:51:08 PM »
Quote from: Bowtie7;518560
Neither of us run a rear bar and the cars turn in beautifully. Both of us are convinced that a stout front bar and a strut brace help with this. Early on I talked w/ Roger about the kind of lazy initial turn in and it was suggested to stiffen the front to slow down the weight transfer. It worked. The car becomes nuetral and very responsive. The RB front bar is not enough to get what we want on track but it is ok for street.

A strut bar is on my to do list.  I just bought all the materials to make a DIY version of the AWR bar.  I like the fact that it doesn't go forward and around like most of the off the shelf bars but I wasn't sure it would clear my fuel rails and I kinda wanted the challenge of making my own.  Here's theirs...
 

 
 
If I'm thinking about this right, a strut bar should be more beneficial on an FC than an FD due to the MacPherson strut layout.  In corners it should primarily see tension so I'm trying the turnbuckle style.
 
I'll definitely be looking forward to Bob's review.  You guys are doing all the development work I'd love to get into.  Good news is that I'm planning on working on the accusump install in the next week or so while I have some down time.
 
Merry Christmas!
 PS Sunburn, I'm looking forward to great things from your build.  You definitely seem to have your head screwed on straight.
LS2 stroker FC, Mandeville big brakes, widebody, etc
Build thread:  http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=1274.0
www.roninspeedworks.com

LargeOrangeFont says: "Joel is right, and I love Joel. But his car sounds like the wrath of God."   ;)

Offline frijolee

Re: Joel's LS1 FC parts list/swap thread (remixed)
« Reply #104 on: June 21, 2010, 04:51:17 PM »
Quote from: theantirotor;520516
WOW!  From a machinist perspective, watching that video from CV Unlimited hurt me.  I am stunned with that horrible workmanship.

Seriously!  Talk about mind boggling...  In case anyone missed it the link is here.  Fast foward about half way through as the first part is boring.
LS2 stroker FC, Mandeville big brakes, widebody, etc
Build thread:  http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=1274.0
www.roninspeedworks.com

LargeOrangeFont says: "Joel is right, and I love Joel. But his car sounds like the wrath of God."   ;)