November 26, 2022, 02:59:45 PM

Author Topic: Joel's LS1 FC parts list/swap thread (remixed)  (Read 683900 times)

Offline frijolee

Re: Joel's LS1 FC parts list/swap thread (remixed)
« Reply #60 on: June 21, 2010, 04:40:35 PM »
Blown Up Slave Cylinder
 
You know, for how reliable these cars are supposed to be it sure seems like I've had mine apart more than I've had it together.
 
Slave cylinder was trashed and it looks like I?m going to rebuild the trans too.
 
Failed slave cylinder (anyone ever failed a slave like this?)
 

 
 
Old and new slave cylinder:
 

 
 
Does anyone know what the upgrade was to the OEM slaves between '00 and '01?  I know one occurred and that the 01+ piece is now the standard replacement for all years but I don't know what's better about it.  I bought a new Coni-Seal cylinder that requires you reuse your former input line.  Not a big deal but now I'm second guessing myself as to whether this will do the job in a what may be a harsher than stock environment.  Anyone have experience with the Coni-Seal brand?
 
----------------------------
Fast forward a few days?
 
I figured out why my slave failed.  I was missing the pilot bearing on my crankshaft and the input shaft was rubbing.  :eek4: :eek: :eek4: Felt like a dumbass for not realizing it was gone in round 1 (working too fast in the dark trying to get the car up in the first place) but I was glad I caught it before I tried installing my rebuilt trans.  Not ironically my trans just received a new input shaft and bearings, I can't imagine why.
LS2 stroker FC, Mandeville big brakes, widebody, etc
Build thread:  http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=1274.0
www.roninspeedworks.com

LargeOrangeFont says: "Joel is right, and I love Joel. But his car sounds like the wrath of God."   ;)

Offline frijolee

Re: Joel's LS1 FC parts list/swap thread (remixed)
« Reply #61 on: June 21, 2010, 04:40:47 PM »
McLeod Twin Disc Clutch...                                               
 
I'm replacing my clutch while I have the car apart getting the trans rebuilt.  I strongly debated rebuilding that myself because the inside of transmissions are so damn cool.  If anyone wants to try it Eat-Pez has some great notes on the procedure here?  [Broken Link  :(  Hopefully we?ll get v8rx7 forum content back someday?]
 
Anyways, I was debating between a couple clutch setups and finally found a deal on a mcleod twin.
 
New vs Old

 
 
I'm pretty excited about this because it gives me a chance to learn something about a couple things I've never tried before.
 
1) fast reving (up and down) via slightly smaller diameter and less weight:
 
-The stock ls1 flywheel weights 23 lbs.
-Weight for the overall stock assembly is 49.5 lbs (used)
-The Mcleod aluminum flywheel (w/ steel floater plate still attached) is 16 lbs.
-Overall assembly for the Mcleod is 36.5 lbs.
 
2) twin disks
 
Doubles the friction surfaces.  I especially like the fact that the mcleod floater plate attaches via spring straps so it can't rattle between the layers like some other manufacturer's twins. 
 

 
 
This setup uses the organic friction material that's good for ~800 hp but supposedly has great modulation.  You can buy kevlar disks if you want to support up to 1200 hp.
 
One thing that surprised me was the shimming Mcleod provides.  It's basically a set of close tolerance washers the adjust the height of the pressure plate starting position.
 
Shims:
 

 
 
I was pretty careful that I keep shims in the original positions but when I was done I found that the two of the three fingers have a bit of play while compressed. The third is snug from the get go.  I wouldn't be worried about it if they were all the same but the difference is bugging me.  Anyone know if this is normal?
 
I also find myself questioning whether the three finger style pressure plate will be harder on the throwout bearing than a pressure plate than is normal.  Given that it was a failed slave cylinder that got me started down this road I'd like to have a bit more confidence in what I'm putting back together.
LS2 stroker FC, Mandeville big brakes, widebody, etc
Build thread:  http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=1274.0
www.roninspeedworks.com

LargeOrangeFont says: "Joel is right, and I love Joel. But his car sounds like the wrath of God."   ;)

Offline frijolee

Re: Joel's LS1 FC parts list/swap thread (remixed)
« Reply #62 on: June 21, 2010, 04:41:09 PM »
Shimming the new clutch
 
Quote from: andrewb70;417227
Joel,
 
Looks like you got a nice truck clutch there...LOL
 
First thing you should be aware of are the shims on that clutch. The reason the shims are there in the first place are to level the cover. Since this clutch uses a stamped steel cover it is not very precise. So what they do is use thin shims of varying thickness to "square" the cover to the flywheel. This is critical to a twin disk since having a cover that is off will cause release issues and uneven pressure on the clutch fingers. I had a LONG conversation with Red at the 2003 SEMA show about all this. I know for a fact those shims are not to be distributed evenly. This is the number one issue that guys using this clutch face. They get the clutch. Don't dear the instructions. Unbolt the cover fro the flywheel. shims go flying everywhere. They falsely assume that they are evenly distributed throughout the cover bolts. Clutch gets installed. It acts funny. They blame McLeod.
 
That is the reason why you have play in two of the fingers and the third is tight. The cover is not square to the flywheel!
 
Since you are in the LA area, I would drive that clutch to McLeod and have them service it. They should be able to tell you where all the shims need to go.
 
The other issue I have with that clutch is the Long style spring arrangement. With the stock style diaphragm spring there is a certain point in the spring travel where the effort gets a little softer. The point where the spring overcenters and it becomes easy to hold the clutch released. With the long style clutch, this is not the case. See the springs all around perimeter, between the cover and the pressure plate? Those apply pressure to provide the clamping force. Those are just like little suspension or valve springs. Their rate is linear. The more they are compressed the harder it is to further compress them. As a result there is no point in the pedal travel where it gets a little easier to hold the clutch pedal.
 
Andrew

Good talking this afternoon Andrew.

Well damn, it looks like I have some sleuthing to do. I was afraid the shims were going to bite me. At least I was able to recognize that something was off. It really would have sucked to blow up a brand new slave cylinder and start the process over.

I have a total of 18 shims, 2 each on the three straps of the floater plate and 2 each on each of the 6 mounts points for the clutch cover. I think just need to go through with a set of micrometers and measure the various stack-ups to be sure the pressure plate and floater are both dead nuts square to the flywheel. Looks doable but perhaps a pain in the @$$. If I can't get it square I'll cave on sending it back to Mcleod.

As a general FYI, Andrew had one more suggestion that I thought was solid and worth mentioning. One thing the t56 bellhousing lacks is a test port to verify clutch disk clearances to friction surfaces with the pedal on the floor. Per McLeod it's supposed to have 0.020-0.025" total air gap on each disk with the clutch disengaged. Depending on the result of measurements I may drill myself a 1.5" hole in the lower face of the bellhousing so I can measure the assembly operation with feeler gauges.
 
----------------------------------
 
I learned a lot about clutches this weekend even if I wasn?t as productive as I hoped.  Forgive me if I blend SAE and metric units here, McLeod uses SAE in their parts but it was faster to measure metric as I was using an old-school slide type caliper.
 
My floater plate was perfect and had no issues. 0.020-0.025? is pretty easy to verify with feeler gauges.
 
My perimeter shims at the six mounting points for the cover were all exactly 0.5mm (0.020? each) and I did have two each under every standoff.
 
The fingers on the clutch were NOT riding at the same elevation which would probably destroy the throw-out bearing in short order if I leave it as is.  Measuring relative to the disc below (which is flat and of constant thickness) one finger rides 0.9mm higher than the other two.
 

Here's my height differential.  This was touching on the high finger.
 
 
The fingers are basically levers such that static height of the finger tip is dictated by: 1) the location of the pressure plate relative to the cover (a pivot for each is cast into the back of the PP which gets pulled outward) 2) and the shimming of the clevis that supports the pivot of each finger (barring wear of the bushing in the lever which are typically fine).  These clevis supports are shimmed at the factory and cannot be disassembled without compressing the PP to release the force on them (the fingers bottom out on the frame of the cover when not assembled).
 

Shims under the clevis pivot point.
 
 
Another thing to watch out for in three finger clutches is that the axis of pivots at the clevis and pressure plate (the cast mounts) can get out of parallel alignment.  One of my clevis supports was rotated slightly which explains why one finger felt tight and the others had some play. 
 

Note the two pivots for each finger
 
 
I tried running without two 0.02? shims (1 each) on either side of the high finger to intentionally warp the cover and compress the PP more in that location but the 0.5 mm drop resulted in a 2.9mm drop at the fingertip putting the previously high finger significantly too low.  Bascially I need something like a 0.033? total shim under each standoff at the high finger instead of the 0.040? I have for the cover to get close.  I talked to McLeod and they?re sending me some shims.  One trick they do on occasion is to start with a hair too much shim and hammer out some thickness on an anvil.  Supposedly 0.01? total deflection of the cover is ~100 lbs so I should be fine with varying compression of the cover springs locally.
 
--------------------------------------------
 
I need to offer a big thank you to McLeod for supporting their product line even in the case of my slightly used street twin.  They sent me a stack of a dozen shims in various sizes I requested at zero cost, just so I'd be able to get this back on the road without sending the whole thing in.  They do offer a complete rebuild service for about $450 that come new disks, springs, and redone friction surfaces.
 
I ended up running +0.004" on two cover mount points and -0.004" on one other.  That was enought to bring all three fingers within about 0.005-0.008" to level with one another (tough to measure).  I would see more than that at the fingers if my disk varies in thickness by 0.002" due to the lever arm at the fingertip.  Figured that was about as close to flat as I was going to get.
LS2 stroker FC, Mandeville big brakes, widebody, etc
Build thread:  http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=1274.0
www.roninspeedworks.com

LargeOrangeFont says: "Joel is right, and I love Joel. But his car sounds like the wrath of God."   ;)

Offline frijolee

Re: Joel's LS1 FC parts list/swap thread (remixed)
« Reply #63 on: June 21, 2010, 04:41:31 PM »
Trans reinstall and verdict on new clutch
 
Word to the wise.  Don't try reinstalling a trans with a twin disk clutch without a clutch alignment tool.  I've done a 5 or 6 trans jobs before and never had a problem going without.  Here I used an alignment tool and it still took me 40 minutes to get the trans in the hole.  I think part of this was that I was paranoid about the outer disk slipping relative to the inner thereby screwing myself so I went about it with a little less gusto than usual.
 

Trans hoist helps.  Note the shiny input shaft from Mikronite surface treatment.
 
 

I built myself a little V-block to support the leading edge when I took this apart to allow the trans to ride at pretty close to the correct angle on reassembly.  I had to loosen my headers to get the trans between them and reinstall the slave once it was above the collectors but it can be done with headers in place.
 
 
One weird thing?  My trans and exhaust is no longer centered in the tunnel?  [Ed note:  It turns out my trans mount (the actual rubber block part) isn't perfectly symmetric.  The upper holes are off by ~1/8" from the lower set that bolts to Grannies cross brace.  So from match drilling at +1/8" I reinstalled it backward at -1/8" meaning the tail of my trans shifted ~1/4" after the rebuild.  If you follow the direction the headers point backward and this meant my exhaust was off by 5/8" at the diff where my mid section meets each tail.  Because the exits positions are fixed relative to their mounts the offset of the mid section shows up as one tail sticking out 1/2" further than the other.  Last night I flipped the mount around making sure I used all the slop in the holes and my exhaust is nice and straight again.]
 

New slave is intended to be used with your existing input line and a new spring pin.  My input was welded to an AN-4 fitting so I can use traditional stainless hose and hardline.
 
 

Finally shield my clutch line properly.  Shown are my fuel line (rubber and corregated), 02 sensor (red), clutch line (stainless, with rubber over the top).  I finished the clutch line off with corregated over the top and routed both the clutch line and 02 inside that.  No more worries here...
 
 
The verdict?
This clutch feel pretty good!  Pedal pressure is the same or even maybe a smidge easier than before.  It is a little weird underfoot because you don't get that over-center spot where it's easier to hold the pedal down.  Modulation is great and even though this clamps down hard it's an incredibly easy car to drive.  We?ll have to see how it goes with some use and abuse.
 
I've also decided that whoever said aluminum flywheels don't have enough mass to get you off the line smoothly was so full of crap it's not even funny.  Yes the engine revs up and don't noticeably quicker but it's nowhere near as fast as a motorcycle and still easy to drive.
 
Six Speed Inc did the work on my trans and did a nice job with it.  It even came with new seals front and rear.  I need a lot more break in driving before I can really comment on the smoothness.  One thing I will say is that I definitely don't recommend synchromesh transmission fluid due to the raging inferno it puts out heat wise through the transmission tunnel.  I drove it like that for two days decided I couldn't deal with the heat and then swapped in Mobil 1 synthetic ATF.  It was immediately back to normal.
 
The synchromesh looked so weird in the pan that I took a picture of that too.
 

 
 
I also tried out the Mikronite surface finishing on gears 1-4 but have yet to notice any real difference with that...
 
Oh and the reason for all the rebuild.  I took the car up to Northern CA for my ten year high school reunion.  Some of the old bros got a big kick out it but man did it suck driving with no AC.  My wife's a trooper but I still admit to feeling super red-neck when I bought a plug-in cigarette lighter fan.  Pics with a great family friend and my host for the weekend:
 

 
 
My senior class president went missing in action so I ended up planning the events (ironic since I never did student government back in the day).  Grilled a stack of tri-tip in the park that afternoon and went to a nice dinner that night.  The restaurant manager got the girls from Cazadores Tequila to stop by.  Excellent margaritas.
LS2 stroker FC, Mandeville big brakes, widebody, etc
Build thread:  http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=1274.0
www.roninspeedworks.com

LargeOrangeFont says: "Joel is right, and I love Joel. But his car sounds like the wrath of God."   ;)

Offline frijolee

Re: Joel's LS1 FC parts list/swap thread (remixed)
« Reply #64 on: June 21, 2010, 04:41:50 PM »
Time to spill the beans on the mischief afoot, the stack of parts has me too stoked to bite my tongue any further?
 
New Plans:
 
-255/40r17 tires with 17x9+35 wheels on all 4 corners
-A subtle widebody front Shine Auto?s 30 mm ?Forsight? replica.
-Two sets of wheels/tires for street and track with dedicated brake pads for each (Carbotech)
-Big brakes via a DIY front kit and upsized rotors in back.
-Redo a few things on the rear end eliminate a bit of remaining motion.
 
I liked the idea of running square tires (no stagger) but the fronts run out of space quite a bit before the rears do.  I was running 235 fronts and 255 rear and I could have done 265 rears no problem.  (Some have even done 275 rears but that requires some fender pulling as opposed to just rolling.
 
Details
First ingredient: +30mm front fenders from Shine Autosports (derived from Forsight fenders).]
 

FC3S: Vent-less FRP wide fenders - RX-7 Owners Club
 
 
I like these because of the clean lines and no vents.  They?re subtle enough it looks almost stock but just a hair beefier.   +30 mm should let me go 255s no problem so the width is about right.  I?m adding an inch of rim up front but I?m already tight to the spring so I?m planning on a 15mm hubcentric spacers up front (made by Ichiban originally intended for an sw20 MR2). 
 
I wanted to run longer studs as opposed to the spacers with lugs built in (for strength/weight reasons).  Unfortunately the correct lugs weren?t available for the Mazda so I got to buy a set of ARPs instead.  The long studs that came with my kit will end up on ebay.  Note: you could get away without the spacers up front if you played with the correct offsets.  By my numbers you need to be into a +20 to +25 offset up front while maintaining +35 to +38 in the rear.  I wanted the ability to rotate tires so I decided spacers were acceptable.
 
 
Big brakes:
 
I need to have my wheel situation squared away before I figure out rotor fitment and caliper mounting.  That said I?m planning on putting my own big brake kit together.  I bought a set of Brembo f50 calipers for the front?
 

 
 
The rears should be Corksport?s kit utilizing stock calipers.  There are other ways of upgrading the rears but the e-brake becomes a serious pain to deal with.
 
I?m aware that there will be front/rear bias issues but I didn?t find anyone who I confirmed was paying attention to bias in the design of their kits for FC?s, so I decided to do my own.   I already picked up an adjustable brake proportioning valve made by Russell so I?ll get to tune this myself.  The added flow from increased caliper piston sizes will mean I likely get to do some brake booster/master retrofitting as well.  Is it overkill?  Maybe...  Part of the point of all of this is as a learning exercise so we?ll see what happens. 
 
[Ed note: ended up doing a Mandeville kit so again, these went away.  One of Charlies customers is kicking ass with them]
 
 
Rear end:
 
I?m tired of the differential rocking and knocking on the bottom of my car.  I?m wondering if part of it is due to a CV joint which has some play and I assume is going bad.  The other possibility is that part of it is due to the stock rear mounts being old.  As such I picked up a set of Mazda comp rear differential mounts.   Obviously a snubber remains the most important mod.
 
I have a spare T2 halfshaft standing by (Thanks Andrew!) in addition to some stub shafts however Andrew accidentally sent me the other variety of stubs shafts than I currently use. 
 

 
I decided to call it another science project and bought the earlier stubs as well so I should be able to take some measurement and determine if they can actually be interchanged between diffs or not.  Either way I?ll have a couple of spare s4 stubs if anyone needs some.
 
Regards,
Joel
LS2 stroker FC, Mandeville big brakes, widebody, etc
Build thread:  http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=1274.0
www.roninspeedworks.com

LargeOrangeFont says: "Joel is right, and I love Joel. But his car sounds like the wrath of God."   ;)

Offline frijolee

Re: Joel's LS1 FC parts list/swap thread (remixed)
« Reply #65 on: June 21, 2010, 04:42:01 PM »
Two Sets of Wheels?
 
Volk RE30s, 17x9+35
 
The other advantage to ending up in a 17x9+35 all around is that this is a classic EVO fitment for wheels so my odds of finding something good used go up.  I went on a few of the EVO boards looking for track wheels and found a perfect fitment set of Volk re30s.  However, I decided that they were just too nice to run on the track and go bouncing off of curbs with so I was going to pass but then the owner responded to my WTB post. 
 
Long story short and these:
 

 

 
Will become my street wheels.  They're full forged, 16.25 lbs per, plus I dig black wheels on white cars so I?m pretty stoked.
 
In term of tires, I?ve been loving the Bridgestone RE050 Pole Position as street tires (good grip, good wear, startlingly quiet) so I bought two more slightly used in 255/40r17 to match my existing rears.  I need to get them mounted but I can?t finish the install up front until I get moved.  Given the constraints of school and work this may not get put together until Christmas.
 
Track wheels?  Mustang GT 17x8+30
 
The 98-04 wheels from Mustang GT?s are a 17x8+30 and supposedly weight 17 lbs per [Ed Note, mine weighed 19 lbs per].  That would mean dropping down into a 235 tire but at least you can get takeoff 235/40r17s in R-comps from all the BMW clubs. I could also do some kind of 17x9 mustang wheel but the cobras are heavy (~24 lbs) and the FR500 knockoffs (~23lbs) use a +24 offset that would be hard use.  Part of me says screw it: if I don?t find a buyer for my Blitz wheels soon I?ll just do the trade for the 17x9 fronts and run ?em as track wheels.  The only part that scares me is replacing one if I jack it up.  They?re forged so they should be strong enough but still?
 
[Ed note: these didn?t clear my big brakes so I sold them down the road]
LS2 stroker FC, Mandeville big brakes, widebody, etc
Build thread:  http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=1274.0
www.roninspeedworks.com

LargeOrangeFont says: "Joel is right, and I love Joel. But his car sounds like the wrath of God."   ;)

Offline frijolee

Re: Joel's LS1 FC parts list/swap thread (remixed)
« Reply #66 on: June 21, 2010, 04:42:08 PM »
Quote from: Bowtie7;432946
If you are talking about the Corksport rear kit, the ears on the stub axles have to be machined down to allow the rotor hat to fit.

Yes, Charlie that's the one.  Thanks for the reminder, I know you'd mentioned this on the phone when we were chatting about your setup.  I assume we're both talking about the actual driven flange of the hub that contains the wheel studs.  I'm not sure what the official name is for this... 
 
The question becomes whether the rotor is centered by the inside flange at the perimeter of the axle nut, by the exterior ears you mention, or both.  That'll make the difference whether this needs to be done via precision machining or not.
LS2 stroker FC, Mandeville big brakes, widebody, etc
Build thread:  http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=1274.0
www.roninspeedworks.com

LargeOrangeFont says: "Joel is right, and I love Joel. But his car sounds like the wrath of God."   ;)

Offline frijolee

Re: Joel's LS1 FC parts list/swap thread (remixed)
« Reply #67 on: June 21, 2010, 04:42:20 PM »
Progress over winter vacation:
 
Longer Wheel Studs Installed
 
Driving out the stock studs (sacrificial lugnuts are good).
 

 
 
Stock vs ARP studs.  The spline pitch is slightly different but the GM studs are .003? bigger at the tip of the splines so they pull in good and hard.  [Ed note:  I?ve read you want a 0.509? knurl lug and the stockers at 0.506? knurl, I?m not 100% sure that what I ended up with but it seemed to work well and there was definitely a difference]
 

 
 
Installing with the help of a big washer and 1/2" socket:
 

 
 
By the way you don?t actually need to remove the disc and brake for this.  I found that out in on the other side of the car when I spotted the hole in the dust shield.
 

 
 
My new studs were 3.25? and too long so I cut them back down to 2.75?  I may have to cut them again as I?m ended up with less spacer than I thought (see below).  I chased the cut with a die so the threads are still nice.
 

 
LS2 stroker FC, Mandeville big brakes, widebody, etc
Build thread:  http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=1274.0
www.roninspeedworks.com

LargeOrangeFont says: "Joel is right, and I love Joel. But his car sounds like the wrath of God."   ;)

Offline frijolee

Re: Joel's LS1 FC parts list/swap thread (remixed)
« Reply #68 on: June 21, 2010, 04:42:34 PM »
Widebody Front Fenders:
 
Shine Auto came with excellent recommendations on fitment and it shows.  I had a few very minor pock marks to fit around the outside edges and one fender warped a bit so I had to try to pull it back in line.  Beyond that all the door seams are nicely done.   Fender vs. hood could be better but it?s only about 3/16? off over the entire length. 
 
One thing that?s probably worth noting?  Although Foresight (original manufacturer of these) advertises the fenders as +30mm I only found mine to be about +22 mm.  It should still work with the 17x9 wheels and 255 tires I?m running but it?s going to be damn close inside and out.  This is including shaving off about half of the inner lip on the new fenders.
 
I?d been told one common rusty space is behind the fender liner.  I assume it happens when mine had a bunch of crap wedged in there.  I think if you shove a hose into the gap you?d be able to clear this out I just never knew where to do it before.
 

 
 
Front end of the car is practically rust free
 

 
 
Comparing fit of Shine fender... 
 

 
 
... vs. Stock (note the front end is on jackstands in these pics)
 

 
 
The wheels used in all pics are 17x9+35 with ?? spacers and 255/40r17 tires.  I still have ~5 mm to my coilovers so I?ll likely end up running 9mm hubcentric spacers for a net 17x9+26 offset.
 
 
The OEM fender liner looks like it can be spaced outward no problem so fender liners won?t be an issue.
 

 
 
This was my first time spraying paint and I?m pretty happy with the results.  Still need to buff it out but it?ll do for the moment.  It feels great to have a white hood again.  As mentioned the door gaps looked pretty good, note quite OEM but damn good for FRP pieces.  Here's the installed version.  I haven't adjusted the fender liners yet so I still have my front suspension cranked about an inch higher than it'll ride eventually.
 

 

 

 
 
Now if I can get my clutch to behave and get those diff bushings installed I should be in business for real.
LS2 stroker FC, Mandeville big brakes, widebody, etc
Build thread:  http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=1274.0
www.roninspeedworks.com

LargeOrangeFont says: "Joel is right, and I love Joel. But his car sounds like the wrath of God."   ;)

Offline frijolee

Re: Joel's LS1 FC parts list/swap thread (remixed)
« Reply #69 on: June 21, 2010, 04:42:43 PM »
Fender Lining Relocation
Front fender linings trimmed and relocated.  The 15 mm arch drop of the Foresight/Shine fenders helps in having this land nicely because the liner rolls down and out if you pivot it about the bottom edge.  It took a lot of shaving to fit right but came out clean so I?m happy.
 

Bolts relocated
 
 

Staples relocated (note this is built in two pieces and the seam is stapled.  I only altered the outer portion of the liner)
 
 

Nice and tight to the lip (which I already shaved down to about a ?? during install)
LS2 stroker FC, Mandeville big brakes, widebody, etc
Build thread:  http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=1274.0
www.roninspeedworks.com

LargeOrangeFont says: "Joel is right, and I love Joel. But his car sounds like the wrath of God."   ;)

Offline frijolee

Re: Joel's LS1 FC parts list/swap thread (remixed)
« Reply #70 on: June 21, 2010, 04:42:53 PM »
Rolling Rear Fender Lips
 
Since I was screwing with fenders I took a little jaunt down south to hang with the OC crew.  Got to help finish off some rear end work on Danzan?s car and it made for a great afternoon.   
 

Nothing like a little help from your friends to make the time fly by.  Mike sets up the roller while Dan and Steve provide comic relief.
 
 
The Eastwood definitely beats the old baseball bat method but it takes some getting used to, particularly the difference in stiffness at a spot weld vs. where between weld.  We found that we couldn?t get enough drop out of the rear spindle to roll initially so we disconnect the rear shock do get in the right place to swing on the Eastwood?s radius.
 
Before:
 

 
 
After (no more lip snagging for me):
 

 
 
Thanks fellas.  Much love and it's always good to hang out with y'all.
LS2 stroker FC, Mandeville big brakes, widebody, etc
Build thread:  http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=1274.0
www.roninspeedworks.com

LargeOrangeFont says: "Joel is right, and I love Joel. But his car sounds like the wrath of God."   ;)

Offline frijolee

Re: Joel's LS1 FC parts list/swap thread (remixed)
« Reply #71 on: June 21, 2010, 04:43:06 PM »
Custom Wheel Spacers
 
Front fenders weren?t quite as wide as advertised meaning the 15 mm spacers I bought were going to push the front tires too far outward.  255s can still be made to fit you just have to run less offset and trade out some margin on this inside of the wheel.  I couldn't find what I was looking for so I got to build full custom spacers.
 
5x114.3 bolt pattern
9 mm thick (making total front offset +26 mm)
6? OD
59.6 mm hubcentric on the ID (stock)
70.5 mm hubcentric on the wheel face
 
I got a great referral on wheel spacers through CF Manufacturing in Sun Valley, CA.  They only sell wholesale so my local wheel shop (Western Tire in Burbank, which offered the referral) had to order them for me.  However, I only paid ~$80 for the pair of spacers vs. the $250 I was looking at for local machine shops that don't do this regularly.  Western gave me the contact info for CF so I could confirm this was exactly what I wanted.  You still may have to order through a shop but if you want to try CF I spoke to Bill at (818) 504-9929.
 

 
Anodizing not included.  That was a favor elsewhere.  ;)
 
 
A couple notes on the specs above:  I debated long and hard whether to make the spacer 9 or 10 mm thick.  I?d been running a couple generic ?? spacers on each side so I was +12.7 in width at each front wheel and measuring inward to the spring.  It?s not a good sign when you?re debating wheel offset to a single mm. 
 
The Volk?s actually use a 73.0 mm ring but I picked 70.5 because that?s the hubcentric spec for my new track wheels:
 
99+ Mustang GT wheels 17x8+30
 

 
 
Finally found a deal on the club.  Seems like I?ve been looking for these forever and I could never convince AndrewR to sell me his.  :coolugh:
 
Although most folks try to maximize their tire on track these are a inch narrower than my street wheels.  I dropped down in width because the narrower 8? width means I can drive it harder without fear of rubbing, they?re easy to find if I damage one, and because this size gives me access to cheap track tires which I didn?t find in 255s.  I?m planning to run 235/40r17 RA1 pull-offs from the BMW World Challenge Series.  Won't be as fast as a lot of tires but should be a ton of fun to learn on.
LS2 stroker FC, Mandeville big brakes, widebody, etc
Build thread:  http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=1274.0
www.roninspeedworks.com

LargeOrangeFont says: "Joel is right, and I love Joel. But his car sounds like the wrath of God."   ;)

Offline frijolee

Re: Joel's LS1 FC parts list/swap thread (remixed)
« Reply #72 on: June 21, 2010, 04:43:21 PM »
Brake System Design Notes
 
I?ve been looking into brake system design and trying to figure out why I never liked the brakes on my FC.  I?ve been through the system a couple times, have bleed the piss out of it and still don?t have the power I?m expecting.  It?s not as if you can?t lock up the brakes you?re just pushing really damn hard to do so.  I?ve replaced master and booster, I?m running stainless lines and have never had the results I wanted.  I could play with brake pads some more but I don?t think that?s it.
 
Charlie (Bowtie7) turned me onto a book on brake system design that was somewhat helpful.  One of the main points is that personal preference will often drive overall brake system gain.  (Gain being the ratio of forces applied at the pedal to how much stopping force you get from the car as a whole).
 
I?m feeling kinda vindicated here that I wasn?t smoking crack and my FD did have ~38% more gain than my FC.  It was also enlightening to realize that my camshaft might be depleting the vacuum available for booster gain. 
 
Calcs are below.  For example: if I build my own Mandeville kit I could jump up to an FD booster with a 929 MC and 13? rotors and my total brake system gain would be 78.  Note this still has a big assumption about the pressure factor I?m seeing at the booster but it still explains a lot. 
 

I updated the pic above as of 4/7/08 and I'm pretty sure it's right... 
 
 
FYI:  Specs are pulled from both generations FSM?s.  In the FC page you can see that 4 piston brakes were available with NA boosters.  This is why I always say that the only thing you must match in an FC?s brakes are booster and MC.  All the others can be freely swapped to your heart?s content.  (OK so rear brakes you have match caliper to disc ? vented or solid) but you get the idea.
 
FC Brakes:
 

 
 
FD Brakes:
 
« Last Edit: June 24, 2010, 05:45:42 AM by frijolee »
LS2 stroker FC, Mandeville big brakes, widebody, etc
Build thread:  http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=1274.0
www.roninspeedworks.com

LargeOrangeFont says: "Joel is right, and I love Joel. But his car sounds like the wrath of God."   ;)

Offline frijolee

Re: Joel's LS1 FC parts list/swap thread (remixed)
« Reply #73 on: June 21, 2010, 04:43:54 PM »
Wheels On, Big Brakes Teaser
 
Got the spacers installed last night:
 

3mm clear to the coilover
 
 

Final stance
 
 
I also did a bunch of research on making a four wheel "mandeville" kit and I'm getting pretty excited about the possibilities.  I ordered rotors. :D so here?s a teaser pics of things to come:
 
Front:
 

 

 
 
Rear (hubcentricity must be maintained I know)
 

 
 
If (most likely when) this goes into a production I'll keep you posted.  There's been some descussion of big brakes for FC's going on at the club and I've already got a couple folks who will be helping me test this out. 
LS2 stroker FC, Mandeville big brakes, widebody, etc
Build thread:  http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=1274.0
www.roninspeedworks.com

LargeOrangeFont says: "Joel is right, and I love Joel. But his car sounds like the wrath of God."   ;)

Offline frijolee

Re: Joel's LS1 FC parts list/swap thread (remixed)
« Reply #74 on: June 21, 2010, 04:44:03 PM »
Quote from: NUCKINFUTZ;463249
Hey joel,
this is Martin from tx man you did one hell of a job looks so good! sorta makes me wish i didn't sell it to you back then congrats man!
 
ps the cage was built by

Machine Shop, Lewisville, Texas, TX // Meyer Enterprises

Yo Martin!
 
Awesome to hear from you fella.  This car's been a rock star and it was definitely worth the huge drive out your way.  Hell, Tamara and I had a great time camping outside Lake Travis and hanging in Austin while we were there.
 
I'm still jealous of how much house you could pick up for your $$ near Dallas.  I'd firesale a few of my toys if I could pull that off too.
 
Thanks for the info on the cage...  That's been a mystery for a while now.
 
Joel
LS2 stroker FC, Mandeville big brakes, widebody, etc
Build thread:  http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=1274.0
www.roninspeedworks.com

LargeOrangeFont says: "Joel is right, and I love Joel. But his car sounds like the wrath of God."   ;)