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Deactivated Vendors => Spoolin Performance => Topic started by: mattster03 on July 13, 2011, 02:44:08 PM

Title: Huge Market for LSX FD exhaust
Post by: mattster03 on July 13, 2011, 02:44:08 PM
I think I would be cool if someone would start fabricating exhaust for LSX FD swaps.  Currently the only option is Hinson and it's really nothing to get too excited about.  Ideally it would be a 2-piece exhaust; the front piece would connect the two headers with a  3-1/2" flange that is located in the OEM position so that any FD aftermarket catback can be used (such as racing beat, etc.) The second piece would be a catback that clears both the stock diff and an 8.8 setup that a customer could order with a standard muffler (such as magnaflow) or blank so that they can install their own choice.  Honestly I think that any future FD swapper would be willing to pay around $1000.00 shipped for a full exhaust... considering this is around what we pay for products such as headers or the samberg intake/radiator system.

The biggest issue you would run into is the difference in mounting kits.  I think the community is pretty much going the direction of Samberg subframes, so I would design it for that....

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Huge Market for LSX FD exhaust
Post by: shakenbake on July 14, 2011, 06:59:03 AM
I would like to see that if the price was right. Spoolin makes great headers. It would be nice to see a package. I really like using the RB Dual catback on my swaps. If a bolt on Y section was made to bolt right up that would be awesome!
Title: Re: Huge Market for LSX FD exhaust
Post by: project dc2 on August 22, 2011, 11:16:08 AM
sorry i havent checked the forum in a while. the problem with "bolt on" exhausts is they'd have to run my header. anything else the purchaser would probably need to modify to fit.
Title: Re: Huge Market for LSX FD exhaust
Post by: mattster03 on August 22, 2011, 02:02:12 PM
sorry i havent checked the forum in a while. the problem with "bolt on" exhausts is they'd have to run my header. anything else the purchaser would probably need to modify to fit.

No problem.  I agree... but you could also use that to your advantage.  You would probably sell more headers if a swapper knew there was a bolt-on exhaust that would work with them.  I think it's worth looking into... a $1200-$1500 header & exhaust combo for hinson & samberg mounting system would sell like crazy
Title: Re: Huge Market for LSX FD exhaust
Post by: BeatTheTunaUp on August 22, 2011, 02:13:38 PM
I don't mean to be a debbie downer or anything, I just don't know how many potential customers are actually out there.  Most of the people already have spent the coin to have a functioning exhaust.  Why by another?  Your going to have to rely on new builds for customers.  With so many fd's converted already and the one's that aren't swapped belong to rotards.  IIRC only a little over 12k were shipped to the US from 93-95.   Not to mention all the wrecked cars.  The #'s are dwindling.  Now a long tube, true dual with x pipe setup may be appealing.  :drive:
Title: Re: Huge Market for LSX FD exhaust
Post by: mattster03 on August 22, 2011, 03:38:53 PM
I don't mean to be a debbie downer or anything, I just don't know how many potential customers are actually out there.  Most of the people already have spent the coin to have a functioning exhaust.  Why by another?  Your going to have to rely on new builds for customers.  With so many fd's converted already and the one's that aren't swapped belong to rotards.  IIRC only a little over 12k were shipped to the US from 93-95.   Not to mention all the wrecked cars.  The #'s are dwindling.  Now a long tube, true dual with x pipe setup may be appealing.  :drive:

I was referring to future swappers... if Spoolin Performance found it to be worth the effort (aka enough interest & sales) to design headers, why wouldn't it be worth the effort to design a simple exhaust system to work with it? Samberg Rod and Custom felt there was a need for better quality mounting systems started making mounts a year or two ago and Justin seems to be doing awesome and there were already 2 other vendors making kits!  No one currently makes exhaust. By my estimation, there are at least 40-50 new FD swaps started each year and it's not slowing down any time soon.
Title: Re: Huge Market for LSX FD exhaust
Post by: BrownBoy on August 22, 2011, 06:30:02 PM
The other added bonus about making FD headers is that they'll probably fit most other LS cars, wouldn't they?

A few test fits of current FD headers would answer that question really quick and that would widen your market right up.
Title: Re: Huge Market for LSX FD exhaust
Post by: Sabre002 on August 22, 2011, 07:25:10 PM
My thought is we need to get together and take a car to Kooks in Statesville NC.  They can make anything you want from SS headers to full SS exhaust.  I talked to them before about it and wanted to do it.  I was told they could price match the current long tubes and be SS.  Tony was a guy I was talking to there, but it comes down to they need a car to fab off of.  I'm willing to take my car but its not together right now.


Mike and I talked about it and all it would take is us bugging the shit out of kooks.  I will put it this way they make LS1 fox body swap headers.  I told the guys there the LS1 RX7 swap makes the fox bodies look like a one off custom car.  We have way more out there. 

Start calling and tell them we want headers and exhaust. 

141 Advantage Place Statesville, NC 28677 1-866-586-KOOK
Title: Re: Huge Market for LSX FD exhaust
Post by: project dc2 on August 22, 2011, 10:08:51 PM
The other added bonus about making FD headers is that they'll probably fit most other LS cars, wouldn't they?

A few test fits of current FD headers would answer that question really quick and that would widen your market right up.

well all of our headers fit the FD no problem.  but if someone bought hinson or JTR it'd make my exhust  null 
Title: Re: Huge Market for LSX FD exhaust
Post by: Jordan Innovations on August 23, 2011, 05:12:45 AM
I've thought the exact same thing.  I think there's a market for max-effort (or at least higher-effort) headers for the FD community.  Stamped collectors are fine and all for most people, but there are so many people running around with VERY similar setups that making a truly IDEAL set of Tri-Y's would be a worthwhile move IMO.  I'll play with the numbers, but at 1 3/4" I think the exits may be compatible with JTR's.  At 1 7/8" I think I'll need to be too long, but maybe that's ok too?

I'm a wholesale distributor for LG Motorsports and have handled all of their headers, and compared to the stuff we use, it's on the HNL... and that's just high-end production stuff, not even custom.

Luke @ Blu808 is going to partner with me on this to handle the fab, I just have to crunch the numbers for the most common setup (LS1 or LS2 displacement, LS2/LS6 intake manifold, 23x/23x XFI/XER cam, 7000rpm redline).  We'll get a set made, match it to my already-max-effort exhaust, and see how much power we pick up from the JTR's.

No problem.  I agree... but you could also use that to your advantage.  You would probably sell more headers if a swapper knew there was a bolt-on exhaust that would work with them.  I think it's worth looking into... a $1200-$1500 header & exhaust combo for hinson & samberg mounting system would sell like crazy

That's my target price point, on the high end.  I love the fact that EVERYONE's willing to pay $1000 for FD swap headers, but the truth of the matter is it costs less than half that to make them.  The rest of the exhaust varies by number of clamps and muffler choice, but I plan on offering two choices - one like mine with tiny mufflers tucked above the frame rail in the trans hump and just two large pipes out back, and another with a 2-into-2 muffler in the middle and another muffler out back for the street-conscious.

The other added bonus about making FD headers is that they'll probably fit most other LS cars, wouldn't they?

A few test fits of current FD headers would answer that question really quick and that would widen your market right up.

Yes and no, we have an interesting firewall and steering shaft position.  I think on most cars, FD headers would try and go straight into the bottom of the firewall or into the shaft, but it's possible I'm way off on that.  I have S-chassis swap headers, Corvette headers, and FD headers at the shop, I should play with them.
Title: Re: Huge Market for LSX FD exhaust
Post by: mattster03 on August 23, 2011, 12:44:55 PM
My thought is we need to get together and take a car to Kooks in Statesville NC.  They can make anything you want from SS headers to full SS exhaust.  I talked to them before about it and wanted to do it.  I was told they could price match the current long tubes and be SS.  Tony was a guy I was talking to there, but it comes down to they need a car to fab off of.  I'm willing to take my car but its not together right now.


Mike and I talked about it and all it would take is us bugging the shit out of kooks.  I will put it this way they make LS1 fox body swap headers.  I told the guys there the LS1 RX7 swap makes the fox bodies look like a one off custom car.  We have way more out there. 

Start calling and tell them we want headers and exhaust. 

141 Advantage Place Statesville, NC 28677 1-866-586-KOOK

I contacted Kooks at one point or another, but I ran into the same issue that I couldn't get a car out there... plus I used Granny's kit which is useless these days as 95% of the FD swaps are Hinson or Samberg.  I really think there is a market as FD's continue to get swapped... I think Spoolin' is lined up to make some good money if they choose to
Title: Re: Huge Market for LSX FD exhaust
Post by: shakenbake on August 23, 2011, 10:04:54 PM
All we really need is a Y-pipe to go from the headers to a FD cat back. That would work for most swappers. I know I prefer to use the RB dual exhaust on my builds.
Title: Re: Huge Market for LSX FD exhaust
Post by: rajeevx7 on September 04, 2011, 12:18:27 AM
Sign me up!

I bought Spoolin headers because of the options for the price. Tradeoffs were made, but it seemed better in the long run. One thing anyone can be sure of as a consumer, is that if you have thought it, so have lots of others! I heavily considered the Hinson mid-length system because it was complete.
If Spoolin had a complete system, it would have been no contest.

I have a Hinson kit and stock location catback. Connect the pieces and I'm sold.

Everyone that begins a swap is IN the market for a full exhaust. What a void!
Title: Re: Huge Market for LSX FD exhaust
Post by: Sabre002 on September 04, 2011, 10:58:13 AM
well looks like I will have to take my car to them for mock up if we want kooks to jump in.  I still want SS long tubes and SS exhaust all the way back.
Title: Re: Huge Market for LSX FD exhaust
Post by: radiomike on September 04, 2011, 02:24:30 PM
well looks like I will have to take my car to them for mock up if we want kooks to jump in.  I still want SS long tubes and SS exhaust all the way back.

Don't forget to tell them about your country cousins in the UK/Aus with RHD when they spec the R/H headers ;)
Title: Re: Huge Market for LSX FD exhaust
Post by: jeffp5 on January 03, 2012, 11:56:05 AM
All we really need is a Y-pipe to go from the headers to a FD cat back. That would work for most swappers. I know I prefer to use the RB dual exhaust on my builds.

This is exactly what I need. Is there any chance of this happening? It seems pretty simple, to go from the headers to an RX7 aftermarket cat back.

I was going to order supplies to fabricate my own, but if there was any chance of it i would hold off.

Title: Re: Huge Market for LSX FD exhaust
Post by: Jordan Innovations on January 03, 2012, 02:13:08 PM
If I had someone local to us in Irwindale come by with a factory exhaust, I'd be interested in taking a look.  We could make something like that pretty easily (and cheaply).
Title: Re: Huge Market for LSX FD exhaust
Post by: jeffp5 on August 13, 2012, 12:46:10 PM
just to bring this back up, i ended up making mine out of mandrel bends, a flange, a y-pipe, and a couple short flex pipes.
(http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd7/jpatrone/RX7%20build/IMAG0227.jpg)

Title: Re: Huge Market for LSX FD exhaust
Post by: perf0rmance on August 15, 2012, 03:27:56 PM
HEY PHIL  :wave:

I'm local if that helps... and I don't have an exhaust system setup yet (hint hint)
 :gruffy:
Title: Re: Huge Market for LSX FD exhaust
Post by: perf0rmance on September 19, 2012, 02:34:02 PM
month later bump
Title: Re: Huge Market for LSX FD exhaust
Post by: project dc2 on September 20, 2012, 01:13:05 AM
sorry about that performance. didnt see your post.  do you have a set of our headers installed ?
Title: Re: Huge Market for LSX FD exhaust
Post by: perf0rmance on October 08, 2012, 04:12:23 PM
whoa, didn't know you replied.
hmm.. probably should have subscribed LOL (it's not automatic for some reason)

No, I don't have headers... yet. Got stock manifolds at the moment
Title: Huge Market for LSX FD exhaust
Post by: stu2211 on October 22, 2012, 01:24:08 PM
If I had someone local to us in Irwindale come by with a factory exhaust, I'd be interested in taking a look.  We could make something like that pretty easily (and cheaply).

Looks like thisll happen this week lol
Title: Huge Market for LSX FD exhaust
Post by: Tbkonwso on March 11, 2013, 01:31:54 PM
You can use my car as test subject :)
Title: Re: Huge Market for LSX FD exhaust
Post by: RAPID on August 11, 2013, 02:51:09 PM
Quote
Jordan Innovations :  I think there's a market for max-effort (or at least higher-effort) headers for the FD community.  Stamped collectors are fine and all for most people, but there are so many people running around with VERY similar setups that making a truly IDEAL set of Tri-Y's would be a worthwhile move IMO.  I'll play with the numbers, but at 1 3/4" I think the exits may be compatible with JTR's.

I think a Tri-Y would suit my goals. I would sacrifice some top end power to have a broad flat torque curve that would be predictable coming out of fast corners. I've attached a pic of the Doug Thorley Tri-Y headers for a 2010 Camaro. Also attached some Yates Nascar Tri Y headers.  First thing I notice is the stamped 2-1 collector off the primaries, a cost saving thing I guess. The thing that really gets me is the length. The primaries on the Nascar are much longer before the merge to two pipes and the two secondaries have a long run to the collector. Is this how a Tri-Y is tuned to a RPM range ?
Looking at the BBK 1594, the cylinder pairings are similar to the Thorleys.  It makes me wonder if the 1594 could be converted to Tri-Y ?
Title: Re: Huge Market for LSX FD exhaust
Post by: RAPID on August 11, 2013, 05:21:30 PM
These Flowmaster (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/flo-c134218234/overview/) Tri-Y collectors look interesting too.
Title: Re: Huge Market for LSX FD exhaust
Post by: Jordan Innovations on August 11, 2013, 10:34:13 PM
Just putting 4-2-1 on each bank isn't going to net you additional power ~ the reason why 4-1 is so prolific is that most of the time, it makes more power up top (which sells headers) and doesn't lose anything in the middle.

I played around with Tri-Y on my cam'd LS6 setup in software vs. the 1 7/8" JTR headers (approx 32" primary length, decent collector but not ideal) and couldn't come up with a Tri-Y that made more power in the middle and made more up top.  If you have a setup that needs a tuned header (like you're trying to lift a certain area of the torque band) you can play with it, but all three things you posted are radically different from each other.
- Thorley production headers probably aren't even made by him, and look like crap.  Pfadt has some Tri-Y's that actually look good and perform well, but not significantly better than a good long-tube 4-1 and sound funny
- Nascar Tri-Y's are tuned (just like the rest of the engine) for the rev-range that those cars run all the time - it's a max-effort high-rpm header
- Flowmaster's Tri-Y is a production piece whos diameters and lengths between primary and secondary collectors may or may not work for your setup - and believe me when I say that changing either off of ideal REALLY makes the overall result suck compared to a 'simple'/off-the-shelf 4-1 header
Title: Re: Huge Market for LSX FD exhaust
Post by: RAPID on August 13, 2013, 12:33:26 PM
Thanks for your insights. I just find headers fascinating right now and remember how popular Tri-Y was 30 years ago. I've never heard a set and had no idea they sound different. I had no idea there was a program to model exhaust. I guess that program would say the Flowmaster is just a long collector that looks like tri-y. I was thinking because it's aluminized steel it could be cut up to make a custom Tri-Y cheaply, despite it's D-Tube technology .
The 4-1 merge collector project dc2 uses, is there a close up pic of it somewhere ? This makes the most vacuum at the collector, right ? Does a ORY and cat back harm the effect ?
Title: Re: Huge Market for LSX FD exhaust
Post by: XLR8 on November 11, 2013, 04:24:08 PM
An optional Y-pipe with the headers would be sick!!   :cheers:
Doing my swap soon, and looking at options.  I can see how the R&D of developing a full exhaust may not be worth it. 
However, with adding an optional "Y-pip" it does 4 things.

1.  Reduces fabrication times and R&D involved.
2.  Allows the buyer to use any standard cat-back he may want or already have.
3.  Allows the buyer to have a true bolt on system. 
4.  Draws the buyer to your product because of ease of installation.

I can definitely say more people are coming to the Dark Side....

Cheers
Title: Re: Huge Market for LSX FD exhaust
Post by: project dc2 on November 19, 2013, 02:24:15 AM
one of the hardest parts is that there is a slight variation due to welding . also shipping would be killer due to the length of the mid pipe exhaust. No to mention headers are barely moving off the shelf.
Title: Re: Huge Market for LSX FD exhaust
Post by: RAPID on June 23, 2014, 12:15:10 PM
one of the hardest parts is that there is a slight variation due to welding . also shipping would be killer due to the length of the mid pipe exhaust. No to mention headers are barely moving off the shelf.
So it seems there IS NOT a huge market for LSX FD exhaust. project dc2 has only 1.75 stamped left, is this correct ? How many sets ? JTR wishes to only offer 1.75 painted. The mythical Hinson 1.88 stainless may or may not be available.
I have learned a bit more about Tri-Y. While they can make more power, the secondary length, diameter and merge angles are critical in the effort to have the negative pressure wave pulse to hit the exhaust valve while it is opening. They must be designed with a program like Pipemax or Burn's stainless' X design. Maybe Pfadt learned this the hard way as they are out of business. 4-1 seems to be much more forgiving and makes power in a wider range of H/C combos. For every V8 Rx7 there are hundreds of F-Body's and each RX7 may have one of six different mounting kits. Is it any wonder there are fitment issues.

Title: Re: Huge Market for LSX FD exhaust
Post by: project dc2 on June 23, 2014, 06:51:50 PM
one of the hardest parts is that there is a slight variation due to welding . also shipping would be killer due to the length of the mid pipe exhaust. No to mention headers are barely moving off the shelf.
So it seems there IS NOT a huge market for LSX FD exhaust. project dc2 has only 1.75 stamped left, is this correct ? How many sets ? JTR wishes to only offer 1.75 painted. The mythical Hinson 1.88 stainless may or may not be available.
I have learned a bit more about Tri-Y. While they can make more power, the secondary length, diameter and merge angles are critical in the effort to have the negative pressure wave pulse to hit the exhaust valve while it is opening. They must be designed with a program like Pipemax or Burn's stainless' X design. Maybe Pfadt learned this the hard way as they are out of business. 4-1 seems to be much more forgiving and makes power in a wider range of H/C combos. For every V8 Rx7 there are hundreds of F-Body's and each RX7 may have one of six different mounting kits. Is it any wonder there are fitment issues.





if this post had a G spot   It would have an O-face right now.  :'( .   The markets not bad but its not GREAT.  no ones going to get rich serving the ls1 rx7 community.  I only do it to  support the community and maintain  some profit. its not easy having 8-10K inventory sitting on shelf for  8-10 months at a time.  I might sell one header a month if im lucky to be honest. Quite frankly, i could get a better ROI and turn around doing something else but  the market is in short of suppliers and  it is what it is.
Title: Re: Huge Market for LSX FD exhaust
Post by: quinns on June 30, 2014, 09:21:55 PM
All I knows is that my headers are kickass. Thanks for making such a great product. There's so many places around a guy can get exhaust done at I don't think its such a big deal. Headers though is another story and these fit so awesome I'm glad they're available.
Title: Re: Huge Market for LSX FD exhaust
Post by: Nfinitecc on September 03, 2015, 11:35:41 PM
+1 mine went in easy and sound awesome, I just wish I could buy a Y-pipe, my shop doing the chassis wiring can do it but I want to run it some and tune on it at my house before hand without burning up 5 sets of O2 sensors :/
Title: Re: Huge Market for LSX FD exhaust
Post by: Sabre002 on November 09, 2015, 06:27:27 PM
I have some new connections with kooks they are making some stuff for Mazda and for the Spec Miata community.  I have no clue when I can get over there but I'm sure they will deal with us now.