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Technical Information => Interior/Exterior => Topic started by: shainiac on May 21, 2020, 10:14:46 AM

Title: DIY Paint Job Advice
Post by: shainiac on May 21, 2020, 10:14:46 AM
Hi guys,

I'm looking to re-spray my FC in my home garage and I'm looking for any advice or pointers you may have.
I originally planned on vinyl wrapping the car myself, but I wasn't happy with how some of the blemishes showed through the vinyl. I figure if I'm going to do the body work to make the car straight and fix dents and chips, I'm half to repainting the car anyways.

My goal is to have a decent single stage or base/clear black paint job. I'm not a car show guy, I'm probably not going to take care of it like I should, and I don't want something I'll wipe with a silk hanky and park in the back corner of every parking lot. I also don't really want to re-spray the jams and engine bay, which is why I'm opting to keep the factory color of black.
Not saying I want to cut corners, but I'm not trying to spend a ton of money and I want to do it myself.

So, here's what I'm working with - I have a 24'x32' garage with support beams. With the car parked sideways, there's 13'x24' of unobstructed workspace. It's not super dusty, but definitely not a paint booth. 
For an air compressor, I have an older Craftsman 25 gal that's rated at 6.2 CFM @ 90psi / 8.4 CFM @ 40psi. It's mounted in the upstairs of my garage and is about the max size/weight that I can carry up there myself. I don't really have the room or budget to buy a larger compressor, so I'm considering using a LVLP spray gun to skimp on CFM. Also, I want to replumb the garage with all new copper line and buy or build a decent desiccant dryer for when I actually plan on spraying.

As for a booth, It seems that some people have good luck just spraying in a clean garage. I already bought a nice vapor-rated respirator, but I'm not sure if it's worth the extra work to build a plastic booth inside the garage. The ceilings are low (8.5' I think) and the area I'd be working in is also under the garage door motors. My thought was to blow the entire garage out with a backpack blower and then pressure wash the floors the day before spraying.

Obviously prep is key. I don't really have much experience with body work, so I've been watching lot of tutorials and playing around with some product on scrap. It's still not clear to me if the entire car needs reprimed if the majority of the paint is okay, just scratches and dents.

Sorry for the ramble. Any advice and tips would be greatly appreciated.

(https://i.imgur.com/fKbb6BY.jpg)

Thanks,
Alex
 
Title: Re: DIY Paint Job Advice
Post by: Exidous on May 21, 2020, 12:51:36 PM
The best advice I can think of is watch b is for build. Even with a dedicated setup for paint he is still a prime example of how not to do it. Ha

Skip the single stage.

Only sand the primer enough to make it smooth. Use less grit than you want. Paper scratches suck. Experiment with the color mixture until it lays almost perfectly smooth. Do not sand. Lay the clear like the color. If you get runs or too much egg shell the mixture is off for the temperature and humidity.

Make a makeshift pressurized room. Two fans in (filtered) and one fan out. Keep the floor wet in-between steps.
Title: Re: DIY Paint Job Advice
Post by: shainiac on May 21, 2020, 01:13:44 PM
Great tips, thanks! You had me worried when you recommended B is for Build until I finished reading the sentence lol.
Title: Re: DIY Paint Job Advice
Post by: Sabre002 on May 21, 2020, 02:27:40 PM
Best advice I have is


Don't do it lol.

I painted my first car that I still have and I have never done it again.  It made me dislike paint work so much.  Who knows you might like it though. 
Title: Re: DIY Paint Job Advice
Post by: digitalsolo on May 21, 2020, 03:15:11 PM
I've painted 4 cars in garages.    Well, I've been involved in 4.   Two I had friends do on my RX7s.   One I did myself on the RX7 and one I did myself on my Mustang.

I did plastic booths in the garage on the first 3, I just tarped the garage off on the Mustang.    Having a big compressor (80 gallon) and decent guns (I used Devilbiss FinishLine guns which were pretty cheap, like 100 dollars a set) is crucial.   Prep is crucial.    I prefer base/clear.

Base is pretty easy.   Clear is harder to shoot nicely, you want to lean towards the wet side, it's easier to take out a few small runs than it is to fix dry spray on the whole car!    Watch lots of videos!

BTW, for what you'll pay for an okay garage paint job, you could just have Maaco shoot it and it will probably be better than your first try, just FWIW.     My Mustang paint came out pretty well, but I have 1200 dollars in materials alone there, so.   
Title: Re: DIY Paint Job Advice
Post by: shainiac on May 21, 2020, 05:02:07 PM
Thanks for the pointers, guys. Any recommendations for good value primer/base/clear?
Also, has anyone ever used a LVLP gun? It's hard to see what the real downsides are from youtube videos, but it's hard to argue the much lower CFM requirements. I'm really hoping to squeak by with my small compressor. Going from 13CFM for a HVLP to ~8CFM for a LVLP sounds significant, even if my compressor can't keep up, it would give me more dwell time between dropping too low.
Title: Re: DIY Paint Job Advice
Post by: Exidous on May 21, 2020, 05:13:03 PM
Great tips, thanks! You had me worried when you recommended B is for Build until I finished reading the sentence lol.

That's why I worded it like that. Get you worried right off the bat. Ha

I repainted teh back of my car. I too am in the really don't like body work category. That being said I fear my need to be cheap may outweigh my distaste for body work and end up doing the whole car myself.

One option is a quality HVLP turbine setup. There are super high quality setups on Ebay pretty regularly. Eliminates the gun, compressor and clean air fiasco. Plus, they are extremely efficient.  4-5 stage and 8psi minimum.
Title: Re: DIY Paint Job Advice
Post by: shainiac on May 21, 2020, 05:20:30 PM
The "need to be cheap may outweigh my distaste for body work" resonates strongly with me lol.
I'll have to look into the HVLP turbine setups. I had no idea that was a thing. I might be able to sell that one to my wife because we could use it to paint the house  :cheers:
Title: Re: DIY Paint Job Advice
Post by: Exidous on May 21, 2020, 05:22:37 PM
The "need to be cheap may outweigh my distaste for body work" resonates strongly with me lol.
I'll have to look into the HVLP turbine setups. I had no idea that was a thing. I might be able to sell that one to my wife because we could use it to paint the house  :cheers:

Check out Titan and Fuji. You absolutely can use them for house and fence painting. They aren't quiet. Think vacuum getting ready for takeoff. The expensive ones aren't as bad though.

GM made the move to a ~10psi setup and, in wasted paint alone, it saved them millions each day in overspray.
Title: Re: DIY Paint Job Advice
Post by: Cobranut on May 21, 2020, 09:52:27 PM
I've painted 4 cars in garages.    Well, I've been involved in 4.   Two I had friends do on my RX7s.   One I did myself on the RX7 and one I did myself on my Mustang.

I did plastic booths in the garage on the first 3, I just tarped the garage off on the Mustang.    Having a big compressor (80 gallon) and decent guns (I used Devilbiss FinishLine guns which were pretty cheap, like 100 dollars a set) is crucial.   Prep is crucial.    I prefer base/clear.

Base is pretty easy.   Clear is harder to shoot nicely, you want to lean towards the wet side, it's easier to take out a few small runs than it is to fix dry spray on the whole car!    Watch lots of videos!

BTW, for what you'll pay for an okay garage paint job, you could just have Maaco shoot it and it will probably be better than your first try, just FWIW.     My Mustang paint came out pretty well, but I have 1200 dollars in materials alone there, so.   

I agree with Blake.
You can do all the prep work, as that doesn't need a booth, and though it takes elbow grease, you can move slowly as you learn at first.
When it comes to actually laying down the paint, you have to move at the correct pace, and it isn't so easy to go back and correct mistakes.
The guys at Maaco spray cars every day.  They should be capable of laying down a very good finish on the first shot, which will save considerable money by not wasting expensive materials.
Title: Re: DIY Paint Job Advice
Post by: shainiac on May 21, 2020, 10:21:26 PM
Thanks, guys. Looks like either way I have plenty of prep and body work to do before I decide if I want to spray it myself or pay someone else.

Patrick, is this the sprayer you were talking about? Seems to be the only one in my price range that has decent reviews. I found a few people that have painted cars with them, but most people are using them for wood working.
https://www.amazon.com/Fuji-2203G-Semi-PRO-Gravity-System/dp/B00D4NPPQY/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3VZFWSQF4UZ35&dchild=1&keywords=fuji+semi+pro+2&qid=1590111572&s=hi&sprefix=fuji%2Ctools%2C166&sr=1-1#customerReviews
Title: Re: DIY Paint Job Advice
Post by: Exidous on May 21, 2020, 11:31:58 PM
That's the right brand but only a 2 stage.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Titan-Capspray-hvlp-95/254603226498?hash=item3b4788ed82:g:sYQAAOSw6WleoQHl

Still a little expensive but if you can manage get a 3-4 stage.
Title: Re: DIY Paint Job Advice
Post by: jwvand02 on May 22, 2020, 10:57:10 AM
Anyone have strong opinions on vinyl as the superior DIY option? It seems in theory to me that you can do the prep/filler/sealer in your garage without a ton of trouble or investment and then use vinyl over that. I know vinyl is kind of a headache, but it seems like if you're patient you can nearly guarantee a good result with vinyl. This seems particularly true if you think there are constant changes to bodywork in the future.
Title: Re: DIY Paint Job Advice
Post by: shainiac on May 22, 2020, 04:11:19 PM
I put a good amount of time and money into trying to make the vinyl work, but about all I have to show for it are 35 remaining feet of vinyl on a roll that's likely going to get thrown away lol. I watched TONS of videos, practiced on some smaller and easier panels, and still royally messed up wrapping my car.
Here's my #1 issue with vinyl - you need experience to plan out how you're going to attack a specific panel. If you choose the wrong path, you'll end up working your way into an irreversible situation where you'll have to start over. And if you mess up a hood twice, you now no longer have enough vinyl to finish the car. There are plenty of people who can figure it out and do beautiful work, I'm just not one of them I guess lol.
Title: Re: DIY Paint Job Advice
Post by: jwvand02 on May 22, 2020, 05:18:31 PM
I put a good amount of time and money into trying to make the vinyl work, but about all I have to show for it are 35 remaining feet of vinyl on a roll that's likely going to get thrown away lol. I watched TONS of videos, practiced on some smaller and easier panels, and still royally messed up wrapping my car.
Here's my #1 issue with vinyl - you need experience to plan out how you're going to attack a specific panel. If you choose the wrong path, you'll end up working your way into an irreversible situation where you'll have to start over. And if you mess up a hood twice, you now no longer have enough vinyl to finish the car. There are plenty of people who can figure it out and do beautiful work, I'm just not one of them I guess lol.
Man, I appreciate that perspective. I have yet to try it and the videos make it look so easy... never really thought about the whole "you've got one shot at the hood" thing
Title: Re: DIY Paint Job Advice
Post by: Cobranut on May 22, 2020, 06:47:33 PM
I put a good amount of time and money into trying to make the vinyl work, but about all I have to show for it are 35 remaining feet of vinyl on a roll that's likely going to get thrown away lol. I watched TONS of videos, practiced on some smaller and easier panels, and still royally messed up wrapping my car.
Here's my #1 issue with vinyl - you need experience to plan out how you're going to attack a specific panel. If you choose the wrong path, you'll end up working your way into an irreversible situation where you'll have to start over. And if you mess up a hood twice, you now no longer have enough vinyl to finish the car. There are plenty of people who can figure it out and do beautiful work, I'm just not one of them I guess lol.

When I finished my Cobra back in 2000, I had a company put on the 3M clear bra material to the nose and the front parts of the rear fender flares.

After watching them work to install that stuff, I realized just how much skill it takes to do a quality job.
I imagine vinyl wrap demands similar skills.
Title: Re: DIY Paint Job Advice
Post by: sciff5 on May 22, 2020, 07:00:36 PM
All the time and money is in the prep. Get it in primer to 400 grit and work on finding a reasonable painter looking for side work to take it from there.
Tape and spray doesn't take that long if the whole car is already apart primed and blocked.

If you can't afford the below, hold off till you can. Or have a go at trying to wrap the car yourself, but I can tell you it's a lot harder then it looks
Title: Re: DIY Paint Job Advice
Post by: Exidous on May 22, 2020, 07:28:53 PM
Vinyl over primer is also a little more risky. The adhesive is designed for smooth surfaces. I've had friends that wrapped primer only to have it pull up the paint due to extreme adhesion.
Title: Re: DIY Paint Job Advice
Post by: Cobranut on May 23, 2020, 10:57:43 AM
Vinyl over primer is also a little more risky. The adhesive is designed for smooth surfaces. I've had friends that wrapped primer only to have it pull up the paint due to extreme adhesion.

That's a big problem, especially since vinyl needs to be replaced every few years.
Title: Re: DIY Paint Job Advice
Post by: sciff5 on May 23, 2020, 08:56:05 PM
I would imagine that removing vinyl that has basically bonded it's self to primer would be similar to the type of horrific nightmare I ran into trying to remove autoflex (platidip with a chemically resistant clear coat) from primer.
I'll give you the cliffs, it almost totalled the car
Title: Re: DIY Paint Job Advice
Post by: fastfalcon94 on May 25, 2020, 08:04:59 AM
I painted a 3000gt about 10 years ago. It was my first time and it came out really well. It is a lot of work. You don't need a paint booth. Clean your garage well, blow it out, put a fan in one window blowing outward and crack a window open on the other side. When it comes time to spray wet the floor down. Watch some youtube videos on how to adjust your gun and how to mix paint. My paint had 2 pearls in it so it was pricey but I didn't need as much as I thought because when you add the reducer/hardener the amount I bought basically double.

When I did mine, I stripped it to bare metal, epoxy primered whole car, added bondo in a few places for some dings, added glazing butty on top of that. Epoxy primered over those spots I had butty. Added high build primer over whole car. Block sanded (I think I used 500 or 600 grit). Then added sealer, then paint, then clear. Paint goes on normal. The clear you put on a little thicker. You want it to look wet when you are done the panel. I wetsanded with 1500 grit then buffed in 3 stages (wool pad, polish pad, swirl remover pad) using the 3m stage 1,2,3 compound. 24 hours after applying clear it will buff the easiest. But if its your first time you may want to wait a few days so it's less risky to burn through anywhere. Go easy on the edges, let the buffer just float with it's own weight and don't put any pressure on it when doing an edge.

I think if you are doing black you may want to block sand it with an even finer grit like 600-800. Over time the primer will shrink despite what the can says. On darker colors it's possible that the block sanding marks will become more visible over time. The longer you can wait after the high build primer the better. Spray it, pull it outside in the sun for a week, then block sand.

And pull everything. If there is a seal, don't mask it... pull it. Make sure when spraying you get into all the edges too like the inner lips on fenders, bumpers that wrap into the wheel wells. When you spray pay attention to where the compressor hose is. I kept mine wrapped around my back so there was zero risk of it bumping into anything.
Title: Re: DIY Paint Job Advice
Post by: largeorangefont on May 25, 2020, 09:41:02 PM
Do the prep yourself and have Maaco or someone like that do the paint job.

Those guys make their money on the prep labor. Their painters are usually pretty good and do the same basic procedure for the paint process no matter what car or “package” they are painting.


That is what I learned paining my car. Best bang for the buck by far for you to prep and have a pro paint it in their pro level facility.



Title: Re: DIY Paint Job Advice
Post by: shainiac on May 26, 2020, 07:47:31 AM
Thanks for all the valuable info, guys!
I've bought a bunch of prep gear and starting scuffing and blocking the car this weekend. Once all the shine was off of the car, it was much more apparent how many dents and low spots I have  :banghead:
I have a couple recommendations from friends in the area that have had paint work done. The nearest Maaco to me is nearly an hour away and has a 2-star review on Google lol. I've never used a Maaco, so no clue if this is typical and people just need to check their expectations, or if this shop in particular is not great.

Can anyone give me a ballpark estimate for what I should expect to pay to have someone spray the car? I'm guessing the painter would want to use whatever materials they're comfortable with, so that may be a big variable. I just want to have a price range in my head so when I get a quote I know if it's reasonable.
Title: Re: DIY Paint Job Advice
Post by: Cobranut on May 26, 2020, 08:27:08 AM
Thanks for all the valuable info, guys!
I've bought a bunch of prep gear and starting scuffing and blocking the car this weekend. Once all the shine was off of the car, it was much more apparent how many dents and low spots I have  :banghead:
I have a couple recommendations from friends in the area that have had paint work done. The nearest Maaco to me is nearly an hour away and has a 2-star review on Google lol. I've never used a Maaco, so no clue if this is typical and people just need to check their expectations, or if this shop in particular is not great.

Can anyone give me a ballpark estimate for what I should expect to pay to have someone spray the car? I'm guessing the painter would want to use whatever materials they're comfortable with, so that may be a big variable. I just want to have a price range in my head so when I get a quote I know if it's reasonable.

Also decide on a painter, and get his recommendations for prep materials and process.
Your primer and sealer needs to be compatible with the topcoat system.
Title: Re: DIY Paint Job Advice
Post by: sciff5 on May 26, 2020, 09:04:30 AM
Thanks for all the valuable info, guys!
I've bought a bunch of prep gear and starting scuffing and blocking the car this weekend. Once all the shine was off of the car, it was much more apparent how many dents and low spots I have  :banghead:
I have a couple recommendations from friends in the area that have had paint work done. The nearest Maaco to me is nearly an hour away and has a 2-star review on Google lol. I've never used a Maaco, so no clue if this is typical and people just need to check their expectations, or if this shop in particular is not great.

Can anyone give me a ballpark estimate for what I should expect to pay to have someone spray the car? I'm guessing the painter would want to use whatever materials they're comfortable with, so that may be a big variable. I just want to have a price range in my head so when I get a quote I know if it's reasonable.


Depends a lot on what paint you go with. The paint it's self can easily be over $1,000, so work with the painter to find something that you like that's not expensive.
Title: Re: DIY Paint Job Advice
Post by: largeorangefont on May 26, 2020, 09:07:26 PM
FWIW I pained my car with single stage paint from Summit, it was $120 for the gallon of paint, reducer and activator.
Title: Re: DIY Paint Job Advice
Post by: Cobranut on May 26, 2020, 10:27:10 PM
FWIW I pained my car with single stage paint from Summit, it was $120 for the gallon of paint, reducer and activator.

How is that paint holding up, particularly with respect to chips and dings?
Still considering it for my racecar.
Thanks.
Title: Re: DIY Paint Job Advice
Post by: Venom13132 on May 27, 2020, 07:46:27 AM
anyone on here use products from Eastwood?  I am getting ready to primer/paint my engine bay with some of their stuff.  I know engine bay isn't as critical as the outside of the car when it comes to technique, conditions, prep.  So I feel like its a good place to learn/start before I tackle the body.   

For the exterior of my car I was planning to use:    (I haven't purchased any of this stuff yet)

https://www.eastwood.com/boulevard-black-basecoat-gallon-kit.html

https://www.eastwood.com/4-1-premium-show-clear-kit-5-quarts.html

https://www.eastwood.com/eastwood-gray-epoxy-primers.html


The engine bay I am using (I have purchased this stuff)

https://www.eastwood.com/eastwood-black-epoxy-primers.html

https://www.eastwood.com/eastwood-underhood-black-paint.html


On the body of the car I am going to have area's of bare metal (grinding off the rock guard on the bottom of the car), areas of fiberglass, some body filler spots to mold in the rear fender overs, and areas of sanded down factory paint.  So from what I can tell the Epoxy primers are the way to go.   

I am planning on doing this in my "shop".  I have put plastic sheet on the top of the shop to keep dust from falling on the car.  I plan on kind of making a curtain around the engine bay and using a house filter for the "in" and some box fans for the out.  I may put a house filter on them as well.   

The guns I am going to use are some Low CFM guns.  They only need 3.5cfm at 30psi and my 26 gallon compressor puts out 4.5cfm at 90psi.  Hopefully this will be enough.   

After reading though all of these posts I am tempted to just do the interior and engine bay myself and do all the prep/ prime myself then pass it off for the paint.  Since I am doing black and I don't want any orange peel in the paint.
Title: Re: DIY Paint Job Advice
Post by: digitalsolo on May 27, 2020, 08:21:43 AM
I used Eastwood Epoxy primer + final poly filler primer on my car.   No complaints thus far.   It was in epoxy for ~18 months (stored inside in my garage).    I did use Rust Defender (https://www.clausenautobody.com/proddetail.php?prod=rust-defender) for the main filler/sanding coat because it had rave reviews and it was really, really good.   Went on thick and consistent and sanded really easy.

I also have Eastwood ceramic chassis black (version 2 or whatever, the newer one) in my engine bay and it has held up well.    FWIW, I used TCP Global for the top coat/clear coat and was very happy with them.   I've used them for a couple projects and had zero complaints.
Title: Re: DIY Paint Job Advice
Post by: Venom13132 on May 27, 2020, 09:08:31 AM
I used Eastwood Epoxy primer + final poly filler primer on my car.   No complaints thus far.   It was in epoxy for ~18 months (stored inside in my garage).    I did use Rust Defender (https://www.clausenautobody.com/proddetail.php?prod=rust-defender) for the main filler/sanding coat because it had rave reviews and it was really, really good.   Went on thick and consistent and sanded really easy.

I also have Eastwood ceramic chassis black (version 2 or whatever, the newer one) in my engine bay and it has held up well.    FWIW, I used TCP Global for the top coat/clear coat and was very happy with them.   I've used them for a couple projects and had zero complaints.

That rust filler sounds like good stuff but it is spendy! $$    Did you do anything to your car to seal it or what not while it sat in primer for 18 months?  I have a feeling my car would sit for a bit once primered before I get a round to a top coat.


edit*
https://www.clausenautobody.com/proddetail.php?prod=all-u-need

this stuff looks pretty awesome for priming the car.  Again its a bit pricey and only comes in 4 Gallon orders.  But for my car which will be a mess of different surface finishes and may sit for weeks at a time between steps this could be worth it.
Title: Re: DIY Paint Job Advice
Post by: largeorangefont on May 27, 2020, 10:16:25 AM
FWIW I pained my car with single stage paint from Summit, it was $120 for the gallon of paint, reducer and activator.

How is that paint holding up, particularly with respect to chips and dings?
Still considering it for my racecar.
Thanks.

So far I am very pleased!

Title: Re: DIY Paint Job Advice
Post by: Cobranut on May 27, 2020, 11:19:33 AM
FWIW I pained my car with single stage paint from Summit, it was $120 for the gallon of paint, reducer and activator.

How is that paint holding up, particularly with respect to chips and dings?
Still considering it for my racecar.
Thanks.

So far I am very pleased!

Thanks.
If my cousin ever gets caught up, I'm ready to take him the body. Lol
Title: Re: DIY Paint Job Advice
Post by: Exidous on May 27, 2020, 12:47:47 PM
If you can avoid it, don't leave it in primer. It's rather good at absorbing many things you don't want in your paint.
Title: Re: DIY Paint Job Advice
Post by: Venom13132 on May 27, 2020, 02:58:04 PM
If you can avoid it, don't leave it in primer. It's rather good at absorbing many things you don't want in your paint.

yeah that was my concern.  But you can do a seal coat on the primer??  I just don't see a situation where I can do everything in a short amount of time.  I really only have every other Friday to work on it.
Title: Re: DIY Paint Job Advice
Post by: shainiac on May 27, 2020, 03:23:12 PM
Wouldn't you be able to just scuff the primer later down the road right before you paint the car? Or is the concern that the primer can absorb junk all the way to bare metal?

Side note, I started prepping my car this week and found that most of the driver's door needed taken down to bare metal. It looks like age/sun has shrank the paint and primer to the point that it had crazing. I figured this was no big deal since it was small enough for primer and paint to fill/level. Once I started scuffing with a DA, the crazing turned out to be cracking. As I kept sanding, the cracks were actually rust on the bare metal under the primer. There are hundreds of little threads of rust alll under the paint on the door  :banghead:
Most of the problem area is taken down to bare metal.
Title: Re: DIY Paint Job Advice
Post by: Venom13132 on May 27, 2020, 03:48:28 PM
https://www.clausenautobody.com/proddetail.php?prod=all-u-need


"ALL-U-NEED Ultimate Hi-Build, One Step, Polyester Primer-Surfacer-Sealer �Finishing System� is available in Light Gray, Dark Gray, Tan, White and Red. It replaces metal prep, etching primer, primer-surfacer and sealer. Containing 86% solids, it sands easily with no shrinkage. No recoat time, no sanding prior to recoating and no sanding after long periods of air dry, it sands the same after two years. Waterproof and solvent proof, self-etching to all ferrous and non-ferrous metals, fiberglass and wood, it is compatible with all paints and primers as well as repairs hail damage. As with our other innovative product ideas, a guide coat was developed within this product. The guide coat allows users to easily detect low or high areas in their panels.

This stuff looks like it can be left for quite some time with no issues.  It seems expensive to me though.
Title: Re: DIY Paint Job Advice
Post by: Exidous on May 27, 2020, 03:59:01 PM
Ya, you can use a sealer. Normal primer can indeed pull stuff all the way to the metal or etching primer underneath.
Title: Re: DIY Paint Job Advice
Post by: digitalsolo on May 27, 2020, 07:12:34 PM
Epoxy primers aren't UV stable, but they're not permeable, so they can be nice if you need to leave it in primer for a while.   I still wouldn't drive it around for a year that way or anything though.

I had mine in epoxy and it was fine but it was in the garage the whole time.  Clausen stuff is really good, but it is a little spendy.   The Rust Defender stuff sands sooooo nice though.    When I was ready to paint, I scuffed the epoxy, then coated it with the Rust Defender, then blocked that out, did a little body work, did a light poly primer (Eastwood) on top of that, final sanded that, then shot base/clear.
Title: Re: DIY Paint Job Advice
Post by: Cobranut on May 27, 2020, 08:23:36 PM
The Clausen stuff does seem expensive, but considering you only need one product, you could potentially eliminate a lot of waste by not having 4 or 5 partial cans of various products left over after a job.
Overall, it may not be that expensive, as long as it works as well as they tout.
Title: Re: DIY Paint Job Advice
Post by: Venom13132 on May 28, 2020, 08:14:38 AM
The Clausen stuff does seem expensive, but considering you only need one product, you could potentially eliminate a lot of waste by not having 4 or 5 partial cans of various products left over after a job.
Overall, it may not be that expensive, as long as it works as well as they tout.

yeah that's what i was thinking.  I did some research on some autobody forums and people on those sites say don't buy the hype on it.  But none of those people replying were first time painters.   I like what eastwood offers based on cost and support. 
Title: Re: DIY Paint Job Advice
Post by: shainiac on June 23, 2020, 03:39:40 PM
Little bit of an update: Because I'm stubborn and cheap, I've been working towards painting everything myself. I really hope that ignoring everyone's smart advice doesn't bite me in the ass lol.
It mostly boils down to me wanting to try something new and also being able to say I did it myself. By no means do I expect it to look as good as if I paid a professional and I'm fine with that. I still want to be able to park the thing wherever and not worry about getting a scratch or ding and If I spent good money having it painted, I know I'd be a diva about it.

Anyways, the bodywork is finished, with the exception of some fiberglass work to the front bumper. All the Bondo work has been blocked out and looks and feels pretty nice. I gave the car a thorough washing last weekend and blew everything down with a backpack blower to get the car as clean as possible before getting solvent wiped before primer. I also cleaned and vacuumed the garage and pressurewashed the floors. I went as far as to shopvac just about every horizontal surface I could get to to minimize any dust that could blow around.

Next steps are to build a little mini-booth with scrap lumber and plastic sheeting. I plan on doing a positive-pressure setup with filter box fans and filtered exhausts out the garage doors.
I have about 13'x24' of room to work with. I thought about buying one of those Amazon $100 20'x10' wedding tents to chop up and use as a booth, but 10' seems a bit too narrow.
Anyone have any suggestions?

For spraying, I ended up buying a Fuji Spray Semi-Pro2 system. I found some good reviews of people painting cars with them and so far I'm happy with it. A buddy gave me a junk Silverado fender that I've been practicing with. At this point I've sprayed it with primer, base, mid, and clear 4 different times lol. I'm really happy I did, every try has turned out prettier and quicker. Some pictures of test spray #3 are below. I think I'm going to tame down the mid coat some so it'll be a little closer to the black base color. I'm using all Speedokote products. It's definitely not high-end stuff by any means, but it's supposed to be good bang for the buck. So far everything seems fairly easy to use. Biggest challenge has been keeping things clean between coats. I've been spraying the test parts in an open garage with an exhaust fan. I wouldn't expect to be able to keep stuff clean like that, it was more out of necessity since I didn't have the space setup for a booth yet.

So far, I have about $1000 invested total. That includes $439 for the sprayer system on Amazon, $345 for 5qt 2k urethane primer, 1 gal jet black base, 1 gal thinner, 1 gal blender for the midcoat/flake, and 5qt clear coat. Plus about $200 for all the abrasives, bondo, solvents, rags, tape, panel stands...

Right now, the clear coat is mildly orange-peely. I'm not expecting a show car finish, but I also don't want to spend a week wet sanding the car. After re-reading the spray system manual, they recommend a 1.0mm top for clear and I'd been using a 1.3mm, so I ordered a 1.0 to try.

The pearl is Paint with Pearls Black Emerald Candy. My test pieces have shown it to be much more gunmetal/grey than their photos. Still on the fence whether I want to keep it or just stick to black base+clear.
https://www.paintwithpearl.com/shop/candy-pearl-paint-colors/metallic-paint-candy-pearl-paint-colors-candy-pearl-paint-colors/black-emerald-candy-pearl/

The current color is a bit too much and I plan on spraying one more test fender with a lighter pearl mix. I'm trying to get away without respraying the jams and hatch,  so I wan't the car to looks mostly black, just not as boring as a Model T lol.

Current blend, 1g pearl per 4oz sprayable mid coat. Looks pretty much black when not in direct sunlight. Still a bit too grey for my tastes, I think.
(https://i.imgur.com/Jyq6PEX.jpg)

Left: straight out of the gun. Ignore the run, I forgot to turn the air on lol. Right is with a quick wet sand and buff.
(https://i.imgur.com/GfpMVJB.jpg)

Straight out of the gun
(https://i.imgur.com/cfVNUe6.jpg)

Ready for etch primer on bare metal and high build for the entire car
(https://i.imgur.com/cCcoqgz.jpg)
Title: Re: DIY Paint Job Advice
Post by: Exidous on June 23, 2020, 11:18:27 PM
Glad you're liking the turbine. It's laying pretty well for only a couple practices. The only thing I've found is you may need a tad more thinner since the air coming out is a tad warm.
Title: Re: DIY Paint Job Advice
Post by: shainiac on June 24, 2020, 07:57:46 AM
Thanks! Good tip with the extra thinner. I'm kind of in a pickle currently. I bought Medium reducer and catalyst for 65-80F, but it's been unseasonably warm and in the low mid-80s. I've been keeping my garage closed up so it stays as dust-free as possible and it's 85F+ by the time I'm off work every day  :banghead:
I'm ready for a cold front to come through and knock the heat out.

Does anyone have any suggestions on spraying the whole car assembled vs. with the bumpers/fenders removed? I pulled everything off for body work and figured I'd spray it off to do a more thorough job. Now I'm worried that the color or quality won't match from doors to fender or fender to bumper.
Title: Re: DIY Paint Job Advice
Post by: digitalsolo on June 24, 2020, 08:02:07 AM
Paint the jambs and inner areas of the doors/fenders, then assemble and spray the whole thing that way.
Title: Re: DIY Paint Job Advice
Post by: Cobranut on June 24, 2020, 06:37:46 PM
Paint the jambs and inner areas of the doors/fenders, then assemble and spray the whole thing that way.

I agree with Blake.  Metallic or pearl paint will lay differently depending on the orientation of the part and the angle it's sprayed at.
Having the panels mounted prevents it from showing up at the seams.
Title: Re: DIY Paint Job Advice
Post by: shainiac on June 25, 2020, 07:59:34 AM
Thanks for the advice, guys. I'm going to shoot one more test panel before I decide whether I want to keep the pearl or not. It'd be a lot easier to just paint the car black since the car is already torn down. The biggest issue is that I can't fit all the panels on panel stands AND the car in any sort of booth that fits in my garage. I'd have to prime/base them separately then assemble the car for pearl/clear. Also, my Shine FC2000 bumper overlaps the fender and it'd be impossible to paint it on the car without omitting portions of the fender from getting pearl/clear. I like how the pearl looks, but I'm still not confidence that I can lay it consistently enough to make adjacent panels match when sprayed separately.

I also ordered 20X 10' sticks of 1" SCH40 PVC to build a booth frame. Did some measuring and I can make it 20'x12' and it fits pretty well. It'll basically span the distance between my garage door rails which gives me something sturdy to attach the frame to.

Title: Re: DIY Paint Job Advice
Post by: Exidous on June 25, 2020, 08:30:02 AM
Personally not a fan of pearl in black. I'd leave it out IMO.
Title: Re: DIY Paint Job Advice
Post by: shainiac on June 29, 2020, 08:22:29 AM
Mostly finished with the prep and booth. Only a few little things to do like cut the holes for the filters and fans.
For now, the plan is 2x 20" box fans feeding filtered air into the booth, and 2-4 panel filters on the opposite side of the booth exhausting air out the open garage doors. Not sure whether it's best to put the fans and filters up high or down low or some combination.

Glad to have the booth basically done. It's been in the mid 80s and very humid lately. I've been working with the garage doors shut to keep dust out. With all the plastic sheeting, having any fans on made working impossible. Apparenly  paint booth can double as sweat lodge.
I also added 4x 4' LED bars above the car, a flood light at the front and rear, and I'll have a worklight inside the booth if I need.

One other concern/oversight - To maximize the booth size, I put the car sideways in the garage. Now there's no easy way for me to pull the car out of the booth to sand the primer. Would I be making a huge mistake trying to do the primer block sanding in the same booth I'll be spraying base/clear? I'd do my best to clean it well, but the staticky plastic holds on to the dust pretty well.

Near-finished booth
(https://i.imgur.com/XQC3bxV.jpg)

Paint cart
(https://i.imgur.com/XSd9qRu.jpg)
Title: Re: DIY Paint Job Advice
Post by: Exidous on June 29, 2020, 02:24:53 PM
I'd do what you can to sand elsewhere.
Title: Re: DIY Paint Job Advice
Post by: Cobranut on June 29, 2020, 11:00:47 PM
You'll regret it if you sand in that booth. 😫
You've built what should be an effective booth, don't screw it up with sanding dust that will be nearly impossible to remove.
Title: Re: DIY Paint Job Advice
Post by: rk970 on June 30, 2020, 02:21:24 PM
Is that a rotor and e-shaft I see.. Anyhoo.. are you going to put down a seal coat before the color?
Title: Re: DIY Paint Job Advice
Post by: shainiac on June 30, 2020, 02:46:33 PM
Yup, I'm going to etch prime all the bare metal spots from body work and and then lay down several coats of high build.

I did some measurements and I think I'll be able to pull the middle pole, peel the back plastic off and dolly the car outside to sand without too much trouble.
Finished the booth last night. With 2 box fans and 2 exhaust filters, the whole booth gets some decent positive pressure.

(https://i.imgur.com/8vzgIQD.jpg)


Title: Re: DIY Paint Job Advice
Post by: Exidous on June 30, 2020, 04:27:59 PM
Do you have filters on the box fans as well?
Title: Re: DIY Paint Job Advice
Post by: shainiac on June 30, 2020, 05:11:40 PM
Yup, the filters are taped to the inside of the booth and the box fans are taped to the outside of the booth.
Title: Re: DIY Paint Job Advice
Post by: freeskier7791 on July 07, 2020, 07:47:42 AM
I would do anything you can to not sand in the booth, I think that it may seem like a shortcut but you will end up hating it in the end
Title: Re: DIY Paint Job Advice
Post by: shainiac on July 07, 2020, 09:13:24 AM
I'm pretty sure that I can sneak the car out the corner of the booth and sand outside. That's the plan, anyways.
Last night I spot sprayed the etch primer on the bare metal spots. The industrial can of etch primer I bought online would spit droplets every 2-3 seconds  :angry: and the coverage was shit. I ended up trashing that can and using the parts-store etch primer I already had on hand. It sprayed and covered WAY better.
But now the ENTIRE car is covered in dry overspray from the spray cans. I dunno if I should scuff and wipe down the whole car again? The overspray comes off on you hands if you rub a panel, so I don't think I should shoot the high build without doing something about it. Going to see how well it comes off with solvent wax/grease remover.

(https://i.imgur.com/aVMvUyT.jpg)
Title: Re: DIY Paint Job Advice
Post by: digitalsolo on July 07, 2020, 02:52:08 PM
I’d hit it lightly with a gray scotch brite then wax/grease remove it.
Title: Re: DIY Paint Job Advice
Post by: Cobranut on July 07, 2020, 09:10:39 PM
You definitely need to remove the overspray.  I think the solvent should do it, though it may take a few passes.
At lease that won't produce sanding dust in your booth.
Title: Re: DIY Paint Job Advice
Post by: Exidous on July 08, 2020, 02:12:36 AM
I'm with Blake on the scotch Brite. Add in the wax remover to keep dust down. Should be okay.
Next time do a little test on so e cardboard. If it does that again give it a bath in hot water to up the pressure.
Title: Re: DIY Paint Job Advice
Post by: shainiac on July 08, 2020, 08:11:38 AM
I used about a dozen microfibers and solvent-based wax/grease remover and was able to buff the overspray off. It seemed to melt the parts-store brand etch primer way easier than the industrial can I wasn't happy with.
Anyways, I cleaned the car one more time, cleaned the booth again, tack clothed the car and sprayed primer last night. I ended up doing 4 light-ish coats and using about 1/2 gal total. I probably put down an extra 2-4 coats in the areas I did body work and the body lines where I know it needs work. Pretty happy with the process so far. I ended up using a 1.3mm tip, which seems small after doing some reading, but that’s what the primer manufacturer recommends in the TDS. I sprayed a test piece using a 1.8mm tip and it had crazy orange peel, so I stuck with the 1.3mm.

So far, the only thing I’d do differently is buy a proper 2-part sprayable etch, DTM urethane, or epoxy primer rather than aerosol crap for the bare metal spots. Yeah, cleaning the gun sucks, but it would have laid down faster and my thumb wouldn’t hurt lol.

(https://i.imgur.com/UYQi0rk.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/F6odazg.jpg)
Title: Re: DIY Paint Job Advice
Post by: freeskier7791 on July 14, 2020, 08:28:58 AM
Looking good!  if you want to do something different for bare metal primer you could always use some preval sprayers, a bit better than just a standard rattle can
Title: Re: DIY Paint Job Advice
Post by: shainiac on July 14, 2020, 09:14:58 AM
Those are interesting. Never heard of them.
There are options I could have bough that would have sprayed well through my gun, but I didn't do my research until it was a bit too late.
I plan on starting the block sanding the chassis this week and get the fiberglass parts in primer while the booth is empty. Not looking forward to the mess!
Title: Re: DIY Paint Job Advice
Post by: shainiac on August 28, 2020, 08:57:15 AM
I finally finished block sanding the car and got everything prepped to paint last weekend. I was laying down the 2nd coat of base color before I noticed that the entire car was starting to blister!
There were little spots on the entire car. Like EVERYWHERE. I had spent basically the entire week prior cleaning the car and booth multiple times with the appropriate cleaners was dumbfounded with how this could have happened.

A friend of a friend is a pro painter and he was nice enough to take a look at the pictures and give me his advice.
When block sanding the primer, there were lots of small places where I sanded through primer to the old base coat. I figured that since you can paint directly over scuffed old paint AND you can paint directly over primer, having breakthroughs from primer to old paint wouldn't be an issue. Apparently that's not the case. Because because the primer around the breakthroughs was extremely thin, the new solvent melted the old paint in the breakthroughs and melts paint under the primer too. This causes the super thin primer to lift. just outside these breakthroughs and that's why most of the damage is in ring shapes. In fact, if you look at photos of the car just before paint, the shape of the failures matches up perfectly to the shape of the breakthroughs! 

Anyways, now the entire car needs re-sanded. Then reprimed. Then sanded again. Then painted again.  >:(
It's almost like a bunch of smart people on the internet suggested I pay a professional and I ignored their advice... :banghead:

(https://i.imgur.com/9pYGrcI.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/eVCdyHe.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/hIsm6IY.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/FvsPiyK.jpg)

You can see the breakthroughs in primer from the image above failed in the paint below.

(https://i.imgur.com/ovwJmzT.jpg)

Title: Re: DIY Paint Job Advice
Post by: Exidous on August 28, 2020, 09:40:37 AM
If and when I paint mine, I'll be going to metal. Every time I've done any auto body painting, if your new base gets to the old paint you get issues like this.

Sucks to hear but better now than at the clear. This pretty much applies to every later.
Title: Re: DIY Paint Job Advice
Post by: Cobranut on August 28, 2020, 02:39:34 PM
If and when I paint mine, I'll be going to metal. Every time I've done any auto body painting, if your new base gets to the old paint you get issues like this.

Sucks to hear but better now than at the clear. This pretty much applies to every later.

Look into wet media blasting for stripping the car.  The water cools the metal and prevents warping, and they can add an additive to the water that helps protect from flash rust long enough to get a coat of primer on it.
Title: Re: DIY Paint Job Advice
Post by: Exidous on August 28, 2020, 03:19:43 PM
Sounds expensive. Rough idea how much?
Title: Re: DIY Paint Job Advice
Post by: digitalsolo on August 28, 2020, 05:32:07 PM
Alternately, after you've done all your body work, epoxy seal it, then scuff/spray.    Taking to metal can be dangerous for flash rust, etc.   My 0.02.
Title: Re: DIY Paint Job Advice
Post by: Cobranut on August 28, 2020, 08:35:01 PM
I'm considering the wet media as my FD has a thick buildup from a somewhat cheap paint job.
I can probably drop a few pounds when it's stripped. LOL
Title: Re: DIY Paint Job Advice
Post by: frijolee on September 01, 2020, 08:57:20 PM
That looks a lot like alligatoring resulting from improper paint recoat windows, but I agreed it seems to attack the edges of the primer much more notably... Those circles are crazy looking.  I like Blake's suggestion of an epoxy seal and scuff.
Title: Re: DIY Paint Job Advice
Post by: shainiac on September 02, 2020, 09:38:55 AM
I spoke with the tech rep for the paint/primer I'm using. He agreed that the new solvent lifted the old paint at the edges of the primer. He also said sealing with epoxy would be ideal, but asked that I try doing a thin coat of the 2k urethane primer I already have.

I'm 90% done re-sanding the car down for primer again. Hopefully I'll be able to spray this weekend.
He also had some helpful hints for using turbine spray systems. He recommended using a slower solvent and activator for base/clear since the turbine puts heat into the air.
I was using 65-80F thinner and spraying at around 75F and I was getting some dry spray in the base coat. Makes sense since the spray air was likely 10-15F warmer than ambient.
Title: Re: DIY Paint Job Advice
Post by: shainiac on September 10, 2020, 08:26:38 AM
I was able to get the chassis sprayed last night. Overall, it went pretty well. During the base coat, I got two blistery spots on the hood like before. Everything got sanded down and re-primed, so I'm not sure why the hood failed. The rest of the car turned out pretty good for my first time painting. After I finished spraying clear coat, I found a huge hole in the top of the paint booth where a 3' section came untaped  :banghead:. Some dust did get into the paint, but should clean up well with some wet sanding. Certain panels have more orange peel than others which is annoying. I somehow managed to not get any runs or sags on any of the large/flat panels, but did get a few on the lower rear quarters. Best place to have them, tbh.

Mixed the original primer 4:1:1 with reducer to act as a sealer rather than high build.
It laid out really nice and only required some sanding with 400+600 grit to be paint-ready.
(https://i.imgur.com/5isVWkO.jpg)

DS door
(https://i.imgur.com/H43z0DJ.jpg)

Roof turned out better than I expected. No tiger stripping or dry spray. The reflection looks funny because of the plastic sheet ceiling and lights, but it looks pretty good with the exception of some dirt nibs.
(https://i.imgur.com/i4oidZY.jpg)

PS B-pillar
(https://i.imgur.com/OKo05h7.jpg)


I'm going to remove the hood and respray it when I do the bumpers and fenders.
My plan is to pull the car out of the boost, tear down half the booth's length so that it's no longer taking up both garage spots, and shoot the bumpers/hood in the half booth.
Still lots of work to do. I need to prep and prime 4 fenders, both bumpers, hood, mirrors, and all the misc. stuff like door handles and trim pieces.
Title: Re: DIY Paint Job Advice
Post by: digitalsolo on September 10, 2020, 09:23:20 AM
Looks like it came out much better this time!
Title: Re: DIY Paint Job Advice
Post by: shainiac on September 14, 2020, 10:05:38 AM
Got the car back on the ground and outside for the first time! Pretty happy with how it turned out.
The hood and fenders are primed and sealed. I should have them sanded and sprayed in the next couple days. All that's left after that is to spray the bumpers, spoiler, mirrors, and trim.

(https://i.imgur.com/W2KNsBm.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/wplZWkM.jpg)
Title: Re: DIY Paint Job Advice
Post by: largeorangefont on September 14, 2020, 10:42:50 AM
Looking good!!
Title: Re: DIY Paint Job Advice
Post by: kinger on September 14, 2020, 03:45:36 PM
Uffda!  So much work!  Looking great though!  I bet your happy! 
Title: Re: DIY Paint Job Advice
Post by: shainiac on September 15, 2020, 11:27:02 AM
Looking good!!
Thanks!

Uffda!  So much work!  Looking great though!  I bet your happy!
Thanks, yeah, it was much more than I anticipated. I am happy with the result, though.
Title: Re: DIY Paint Job Advice
Post by: shainiac on September 17, 2020, 03:28:41 PM
I cut my booth in half it's original size so that I don't have to leave the car outside.
The hood and front fenders are now complete. They turned out pretty well. No breakthroughs in the hood this time (3rd time's a charm  >:()
I did notice that this morning there was quite a bit of trash in the clear coat, especially in the hood. I don't remember seeing much when i finished spraying, so I'm not sure if this happened at some point after I was done? I'd guess I let the fans run for another 30 min after the last coat of clear went down. Should I leave the fans running over night? The booth got swept out 30 minutes before spraying, then the floors got wet down, and finally all the panels got tack cloth'd right before spraying. I also wore a painter's suite and left the booth closed up during the whole painting process.

To try and get rid of the dirt nibs on the chassis, I bought a carbide Mirka Shark Blade. It's a little carbide tool that's supposed to basically shave drips and nibs flush to the panel and leave a smooth enough finish that can just be buffed out. Well, I tried it a few times and thought I had the hang of it until I tried shaving a rogue drip by the taillight and took a big bite straight to primer :banghead:
It just so happened to be on the only 1" section of visible body paint between the over fender and tail light lol. Oh well, I guess I get to try doing touchups now.

(https://i.imgur.com/zAdwxq3.jpg)
Title: Re: DIY Paint Job Advice
Post by: digitalsolo on September 17, 2020, 07:42:57 PM
This is the "joy" of painting, haha.    Good news is when you're done with all of it, you'll know how to do it better!   LOL

I repainted a fender on my Mustang 3x and the hood 2x.   Practice makes... decent.  :D

30 minutes should be more than enough time for the clear to flash off, though, I'd think.
Title: Re: DIY Paint Job Advice
Post by: sciff5 on September 18, 2020, 02:53:27 PM
Looks good man. Painting and body work are deff a matter of hard tedious work combined with a little trial and error.
Title: Re: DIY Paint Job Advice
Post by: shainiac on September 29, 2020, 09:16:13 AM
Nearly done with all the spraying! I was finishing up the front bumper, mirrors, trim, and door handles, but I ran out of clear coat  :banghead:
This resulted in a lot of dry spray from areas that didn't quite get enough clear to wet out. Also, as the weather has been getting cooler, I've noticed a lot more runs. I think it's mostly to do with me being impatient with dry times between coats. My booth is also pretty rough at this point. There's just a lot of dry overspray static clung to the plastic sheeting and the panels I've painted recently look noticeably dirtier than the panels I painted a month ago.

New clear coat should be here by the weekend so I can finish the trim and redo the mirrors. Then I need to start wet sanding and buffing.

(https://i.imgur.com/yycW9WD.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/4lFgNv9.jpg)