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Vendor Forums => Ronin Speedworks => Topic started by: 65imp on February 14, 2018, 01:26:57 AM

Title: Ronin RX-LS Swap Headers!
Post by: 65imp on February 14, 2018, 01:26:57 AM
Coming Soon:

Ronin RX-LS swap headers...  We're finally launching the long tube headers we've always wanted ourselves.  This has been in the works for quite some time now, but we're close enough that we wanted to share the details and start putting together a list of interested folks.  As per our usual we're planning to offer hook-ups to those who jump in first and are willing to give us feedback.

Basics:
-All stainless long tube headers.  We're not even bothering with mild.
-Made in the USA (Yes even the tubing.  This is both because America F-yeah and because we found it bends nicer than the imported stuff)
-Only one configuration planned for now
-1 7/8" mandrel bent primaries
-1/2" flanges
-Quasi Merge collectors w/ choke trumpeting back to 3" exit.
-02 bungs (duh)
-V band flanges with interlocking features (male female) 
-Intended to fit FC, FD, and RX8

Note on the quasi-merge collectors.  From a flow perspective these are effectively identical to slip-on merge collectors.  The difference is that we wanted to avoid the slip as it offers potential for leakage which can make tuning a PITA (ask me how I know).  These will use a full merge spike with a deep drawn stamped exterior, that lets us weld the spike first then burn them in all the way around.

Design...  well there aren't infinite options since we have specific length targets in mind and we need to keep these tucked tight.  Expect it to be clean.  Don't expect a bowl of spaghetti.  We will check triple check the spark plug clearances, we promise!  That said, we won't just be copying the existing players on the market either.  We plan to end up a bit longer than JTRs (and the Spooling knock offs) after all who doesn't want an extra inch or two?  This will shift the tuned RPM slightly lower and broaden the sweet spot for HP at the top of the RPM band. 

Joel's headers are the starting point but we have several tweaks planned.

(https://sites.google.com/site/frijoleels1fc/Frijolee429Exhaust1.jpg)
Title: Re: Ronin RX-LS Swap Headers!
Post by: 65imp on February 14, 2018, 01:28:04 AM
So here's the deal.  Anyone who's familiar with Ronin knows that Mike and I are perfectionists.  We want these to be perfect and if they're not we're going to keep tweaking them until they are.  That's just how we roll.  We already have a test chassis for FC, FD, and RX8 in place, but we're looking for 5 possibly 6 testers covering 1) as broad a spectrum of available mounting kits as we can.  2) RHD vehicles we can test since we want to check that for our international folks.

We're gonna make you a screaming deal to be sure we have our production sorted.  First articles will be kicking off shortly.  Best guess that puts us a couple months out until we're ready to start shipping.  We're going to prioritize folks who can get these into cars first rather than just first-come first-served.  That said, if you're one of the first 5-6 selected we're gonna sell you your headers for $700!  You can't find that deal used, much less in stainless w/ merges.

The rub...  You're going to owe us a write up with pics and details.  Since we've learned the hard way that life happens and not everyone follows through, this will be charged as $1000 with a $300 refund given when you hold up your end.  Best guess shipping should run about $50.

The guarantee.  If you're not satisfied with fitment we'll take them back and put your $700 toward a set of the second batch where in we'll have solved whatever is was you were concerned about.  We're optimistic that we won't need changes given the effort we're putting into to fixtures and verification, but there it is.

Who'd like to be on the list for the first ones?

1)
2)
3)
Title: Re: Ronin RX-LS Swap Headers!
Post by: 65imp on February 14, 2018, 01:28:43 AM
While we're here, what feedback on existing header options do you have?  What did you like?  What drove you crazy?  We've been around these things for quite some time, but if their are specifics you're looking for now's the time to let your desires be known.
Title: Re: Ronin RX-LS Swap Headers!
Post by: wickedrx7 on February 14, 2018, 08:06:49 AM
Do you have any installed pictures?  How is overall clearance and ground clearance? 
Title: Re: Ronin RX-LS Swap Headers!
Post by: freeskier7791 on February 14, 2018, 11:01:37 AM
Its cool that you guys are gonna start making headers, and I totally agree that longer collector length is better.
Title: Re: Ronin RX-LS Swap Headers!
Post by: largeorangefont on February 14, 2018, 02:53:02 PM
If you need fitment testing Mike, let me know. I'll need my X pipe modified to make them actually work, but that is no big deal.

If the ground clearance is as good as my Spoolin headers I am in. Also not too close to the floor boards is a good thing too.
Title: Re: Ronin RX-LS Swap Headers!
Post by: MPbdy on February 14, 2018, 03:33:40 PM
This is a down the road thing, but I plan on engine dynoing my engine next build. I have spoolin merge 1 7/8Ē to benchmark against if you want.
Title: Re: Ronin RX-LS Swap Headers!
Post by: paul_3rdgen on February 14, 2018, 07:38:10 PM
Iíd be down for a set!  I have jtr 1 7/8ís now.  Iíd like to see if thereís power left on the table. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Ronin RX-LS Swap Headers!
Post by: InevitableFD on February 14, 2018, 08:08:35 PM
PM'd and trying to add my name to that list.
Title: Re: Ronin RX-LS Swap Headers!
Post by: fdrx7 on February 14, 2018, 09:59:12 PM
Any possibility of a 2" primary setup for a ls7?

Thanks
Title: Re: Ronin RX-LS Swap Headers!
Post by: Negrok20r on February 14, 2018, 11:44:16 PM
So here's the deal.  Anyone who's familiar with Ronin knows that Mike and I are perfectionists.  We want these to be perfect and if they're not we're going to keep tweaking them until they are.  That's just how we roll.  We already have a test chassis for FC, FD, and RX8 in place, but we're looking for 5 possibly 6 testers covering 1) as broad a spectrum of available mounting kits as we can.  2) RHD vehicles we can test since we want to check that for our international folks.

We're gonna make you a screaming deal to be sure we have our production sorted.  First articles will be kicking off shortly.  Best guess that puts us a couple months out until we're ready to start shipping.  We're going to prioritize folks who can get these into cars first rather than just first-come first-served.  That said, if you're one of the first 5-6 selected we're gonna sell you your headers for $700!  You can't find that deal used, much less in stainless w/ merges.

The rub...  You're going to owe us a write up with pics and details.  Since we've learned the hard way that life happens and not everyone follows through, this will be charged as $1000 with a $300 refund given when you hold up your end.  Best guess shipping should run about $50.

The guarantee.  If you're not satisfied with fitment we'll take them back and put your $700 toward a set of the second batch where in we'll have solved whatever is was you were concerned about.  We're optimistic that we won't need changes given the effort we're putting into to fixtures and verification, but there it is.

Who'd like to be on the list for the first ones?

1)Negrok20r
2)
3)
Title: Re: Ronin RX-LS Swap Headers!
Post by: AMorgan on February 15, 2018, 10:29:55 AM
Iím pretty freaking excited for these.  Iím already collecting Ronin parts for my swap and these will just ice the cake.  I am sad I canít capitalize on this deal, but I canít swap any faster than I already am, hahaha.
Title: Re: Ronin RX-LS Swap Headers!
Post by: MPbdy on February 15, 2018, 11:11:03 AM
Any possibility of a 2" primary setup for a ls7?

Thanks

I'm really skeptical if these will fit, but I'd probably swap my spoolin 1 7/8" for 2" primary for my stroker that I want to spin 7500.
Title: Re: Ronin RX-LS Swap Headers!
Post by: nkuhajda on February 15, 2018, 12:20:05 PM
Oh man, I already committed to a Sikky Manufacturing mid-length setup that required a bit of "persuasion" on the passenger side to clear the subframe  :'(
Title: Re: Ronin RX-LS Swap Headers!
Post by: largeorangefont on February 15, 2018, 12:22:52 PM
Oh man, I already committed to a Sikky Manufacturing mid-length setup that required a bit of "persuasion" on the passenger side to clear the subframe  :'(

Would longtubes that fit FCs and FDs even work with the Sikky kit?

Title: Re: Ronin RX-LS Swap Headers!
Post by: nkuhajda on February 15, 2018, 12:25:33 PM
To clarify - I have the full samberg/ronin mount setup but grabbed the sikky headers to finish it. Drivers side fit perfectly but the passenger side collector runs into the rear lower control arm mount by a solid 1/2"
Title: Re: Ronin RX-LS Swap Headers!
Post by: carlb on February 15, 2018, 08:13:46 PM
I'd be in this for being an early tester. Sounds like fun. Let me know.
Title: Re: Ronin RX-LS Swap Headers!
Post by: AZieger on February 16, 2018, 12:44:16 AM
Currently in the middle of my swap and fabricating my exhaust for my spoolin 1-7/8" non-merge collector headers.  Not impressed with the ground clearance on the drivers side (LHD).  They sit about 1" lower on that side compared to the pass. side.  They are the lowest part of the car no doubt.  Will yours be better???  There isn't much room between the bellhousing and the floorpan/tunnel.
Title: Re: Ronin RX-LS Swap Headers!
Post by: Exidous on February 16, 2018, 09:03:10 AM
If I wasn't on the other side of the planet from my car for the next year I'd be all over this. I have the sikky in and while the build quality and gained a fair bit of ground clearance I lost a lot of low and mid range. You would't think it would be noticeable but it's there.

I'll keep my eye out a year from now.
Title: Re: Ronin RX-LS Swap Headers!
Post by: Sacrilegious-FD on February 20, 2018, 09:44:54 AM
RHD Version?
Title: Re: Ronin RX-LS Swap Headers!
Post by: DailyDSM on April 10, 2018, 11:32:34 AM
I'm local (Irvine, CA) and might be interested in being part of the first batch.  I currently have a running/driving, swapped, car with Samberg subframe and Hinson/Stainless Works 1 7/8" headers.  If you guys want to take a look of the fitment of these headers, let me know.  Based on my experiences with the SW headers, I have a few suggestions for areas of improvement, if you're interested.

I'm actually planning to pull my current engine (L33) this weekend and swap in an LS2, with limited down time, so I would be in a position to provide feedback relatively quickly.

Do you have an idea of when these would be ready. 
Title: Re: Ronin RX-LS Swap Headers!
Post by: 65imp on April 10, 2018, 11:47:50 AM
Frijolee has it all in CAD, and we have been making tweaks for optimal clearances.  Mandrels and benders are all squared away.  We should have a prototype by the end of the month.  Then we just have to fit them on everything under the sun. 
We are only havint 1 7/8 at first, primarily we want the best fit for the FD/FC LHD guys.  We are also doing our best to allow them to work for the RHD folks around the globe. 
If we can also make them work for RX8/FB swaps then we are Gold.
For ease of communication send an email to roninspeedworks@gmail.com in the subject title say Header prototype. 
We will keep you updated as we go. 
Title: Re: Ronin RX-LS Swap Headers!
Post by: NOROTOR on April 15, 2018, 11:08:50 PM
Any chance you'd sell a set without the flange installed?

Thank you.
Jesse
Title: Re: Ronin RX-LS Swap Headers!
Post by: Exidous on May 17, 2018, 09:53:36 AM
I have not looked into it too deeply but would a tri-y be easier to tuck up into the tunnel? I know it's a fair bit more difficult to make, I just don't know how long/big the secondary and primary would need to be.
From looking at the pfadt the secondary is relatively short but might make for the cake and eat it too with the power and ground clearance.
Title: Re: Ronin RX-LS Swap Headers!
Post by: frijolee on May 17, 2018, 03:26:00 PM
Any chance you'd sell a set without the flange installed?

Thank you.
Jesse

Merge end or primary end?  I suspect the answer is a qualified maybe.  We're trying to keep custom variations to a minimum on these, but if it happened to time out right and we were in the midst of building a set, we could probably help you out.

I have not looked into it too deeply but would a tri-y be easier to tuck up into the tunnel? I know it's a fair bit more difficult to make, I just don't know how long/big the secondary and primary would need to be.
From looking at the pfadt the secondary is relatively short but might make for the cake and eat it too with the power and ground clearance.

If we can't get a fitment we like we'll look into this.  I can see what you mean about having two tubes stacked vertically rather then 4 tubes in a square though.  The prototypes will be 4 to 1 and (crossing fingers) we should have a significant update with pictures come Monday.  Should be a good weekend!


Title: Re: Ronin RX-LS Swap Headers!
Post by: Exidous on May 17, 2018, 06:18:39 PM
I know it's a big idea when you guys are so far into the development of these. I don't really mean a replacement really, just an additional idea if you have the time. Would be really cool to see.

I have the sikky shorties and they allow all of the ground clearance one could want but the power band is super goofy. It almost feels like a big cam coming on at 35-4000. The Sikky are also super thin. Like 18ga or thinner. Easy to dent and allow a lot of under the hood nose. I'd take a weight penalty for 16 or 14ga.

Either way, I'm really interested to see what you guys come up with.
Title: Re: Ronin RX-LS Swap Headers!
Post by: frijolee on May 23, 2018, 01:56:24 PM
Glad to see so many folks are stoked on these.  We are too.  I was really hoping to have pictures of the prototype headers to show today.  I spent about 16 hours over the weekend working with our fab shop and dialing in the mandrel bender.   All dies and and a massive stack of tubing are on hand.  All flanges and piece parts (collectors/bungs) are ready.

We have what the first design locked down and I'm really pleased with where we're landing. 

Downside (and the reason I don't have complete pictures to show) is that we had a setback with the mandrel bender's ability to control clocking.  I'm not going to get too deep into the tech of it but since tubes are 4 bends the tolerances can stack up quickly and we don't get the results we want.

We're working on it and have a plan for how we'll address, but I stil wanted to offer status since I promised an update.  Like I said. I'm still happy with where we're going but it's still not quite the update I wanted to be sharing.

Staying the course.  You guys know how much we care about getting things right. 

-Joel (for RSW)
Title: Re: Ronin RX-LS Swap Headers!
Post by: Stubbs on May 29, 2018, 11:04:37 PM
If you've got fitment for a V8Roadsters subframe on a RX8, I'm all in on these.
I tried fitting some off the shelf headers on mine but nothing fit.
Title: Re: Ronin RX-LS Swap Headers!
Post by: frijolee on May 30, 2018, 01:09:54 AM
If you've got fitment for a V8Roadsters subframe on a RX8, I'm all in on these.
I tried fitting some off the shelf headers on mine but nothing fit.

@Stubbs, please send some pics to roninspeedworks@gmail.com and we'll let you know if we think you have a shot.  Primary areas of interest will be as it passes the engine mount interface whatever that looks like as it bolts to the block... and the position of the engine fore/aft relative to the firewall.

-Joel (for RSW)
Title: Re: Ronin RX-LS Swap Headers!
Post by: gnx7 on June 04, 2018, 02:48:38 PM
Could you make a set with 2" primaries that increase to 2 1/8" with 3.5" collectors based upon your piping CAD design?
Title: Re: Ronin RX-LS Swap Headers!
Post by: frijolee on June 04, 2018, 09:56:45 PM
Could you make a set with 2" primaries that increase to 2 1/8" with 3.5" collectors based upon your piping CAD design?

It's not very likely unless you want to spend $28,000 in dies.  Screws up the spacing where tubes run together as well so it'd be quite a  bit of CAD work.  For one off things like that, cut and splice is still probably the way to go.
Title: Re: Ronin RX-LS Swap Headers!
Post by: SLACer on June 14, 2018, 11:23:11 PM
Who'd like to be on the list for the first ones?

1)
2)
3)


Yes! Put me down for a set
Title: Re: Ronin RX-LS Swap Headers!
Post by: Exidous on June 16, 2018, 03:54:00 AM
I'll be on board for a set but not until Novemberish.
Title: Re: Ronin RX-LS Swap Headers!
Post by: frijolee on June 16, 2018, 02:28:24 PM
I have some good news.  The fab shop we have a long standing partnership with is using the Ronin header project as a reason to upgrade their entire mandrel bender.  The new version will be full CNC, including clocking (which solves the issue we were running into above).  It's a huge investment but is going to take their bending capabilities through the roof.  The owner is stoked.  I'm stoked.  And you guys should be stoked too!

Mandrel bending is damn cool to watch.  The one they had was already bigger than most cars.  The new machine is supposed just be a monster.  As point of reference, the new machine is electric instead of hydraulic which avoids variations in flow rates and improves consistency.  It has a 40 hp motor for the bend head, another 20 hp motor driving tube, and a 3rd 20 hp motor for clamp dies.  It takes 200 amps of 480V three phase just to run!   :cheers: 

It also comes with quite a bit of tooling.  No idea how it'll time out but @gnx7, this might reopen our ability to make custom variations.  It would still have to be a healthy upcharge to cover the time, but I imagine should a good bit less than the $3k that full custom long tubes tend to run.  No promises, as I know I'm getting ahead of myself, but needless to say it's good news.

Best yet, the tolerances this new machine is capable of are blowing my mind, I can already tell we're going to need a Y-pipe design to match, so folks can run the catback of their choice.

It all should be setup and running sometime mid next month.

Regards,
-Joel (for RSW)
Title: Re: Ronin RX-LS Swap Headers!
Post by: Exidous on June 22, 2018, 05:08:47 AM
3" merge to 3.5" as close to the driveshaft as possible please and thank you.
Title: Re: Ronin RX-LS Swap Headers!
Post by: digitalsolo on June 22, 2018, 09:28:46 AM
Damnit, I wanna see some pictures, or I'm gonna have to start banning people.  :D
Title: Re: Ronin RX-LS Swap Headers!
Post by: wickedrx7 on June 22, 2018, 09:33:49 AM
Damnit, I wanna see some pictures, or I'm gonna have to start banning people.  :D

I agree with this statement!
Title: Re: Ronin RX-LS Swap Headers!
Post by: Exidous on June 22, 2018, 03:56:39 PM
I third this motion!
Title: Re: Ronin RX-LS Swap Headers!
Post by: celer on July 06, 2018, 01:02:01 PM
Any updates? I'm interested as well, I have a 93 FD / LM4 / T56 Magnum, fully caged race car which I was trying to keep the power down on for endurance racing, but now I wanna go play around in time trails. I have been using stock manifolds with v-bands welded ....

Thanks!
Title: Re: Ronin RX-LS Swap Headers!
Post by: SLACer on July 07, 2018, 10:09:06 AM
Yes, I'd would like to know when they might be available too.
Title: Re: Ronin RX-LS Swap Headers!
Post by: celer on July 07, 2018, 01:54:20 PM
Oh man, I already committed to a Sikky Manufacturing mid-length setup that required a bit of "persuasion" on the passenger side to clear the subframe  :'(

Did you modify the exhaust or subframe to make it fit? Do you have any pictures?  Did it require cutting the tubing on the subframe or the plate?

Title: Re: Ronin RX-LS Swap Headers!
Post by: Exidous on July 10, 2018, 10:16:43 AM
I had to modify the subframes for the sikky mid-length. I suppose I could have modified the headers but really didn't want to. Sliced almost down to the bushing. Still a ton of meat on the frame though.

I just want to swap them out because of the loss of low end torque and thin 18ga bell sounding metal.
Title: Re: Ronin RX-LS Swap Headers!
Post by: SLACer on July 10, 2018, 01:33:09 PM
I'm pretty much at a holding point until I put headers in to see where I need to route my exhaust piping. let me know when you get closer. I excited for the new headers
Title: Re: Ronin RX-LS Swap Headers!
Post by: frijolee on July 28, 2018, 07:06:03 PM
Update:  On Friday our fab shop took delivery of the new bender...   Setup will be happening this week.  I'm heading up next weekend to spend a day and see if we can get prototypes done.

This bender is a monster!

(https://sites.google.com/site/frijoleels1fc/RoninNewBender_crop.jpg)


And since folks asked for pics, here's the final CAD design we're working to (flanges not shown)...

(https://sites.google.com/site/frijoleels1fc/RoninPassHeader_crop.jpg)

(https://sites.google.com/site/frijoleels1fc/RoninDriverHeader_crop.jpg)


Mostly a teaser, but it is a scratch design that's exclusively Ronin's.  Really hoping I have real pics for you in a week and half.
Title: Re: Ronin RX-LS Swap Headers!
Post by: paul_3rdgen on July 28, 2018, 10:16:46 PM
Looking forward to seeing the prototype!  Iím definitely buying a set!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Ronin RX-LS Swap Headers!
Post by: Exidous on July 29, 2018, 10:22:13 AM
How close are the runner lengths? Doesn't look quite equal length from the photo but could just be the angle.

Title: Re: Ronin RX-LS Swap Headers!
Post by: frijolee on July 29, 2018, 10:59:26 PM
How close are the runner lengths? Doesn't look quite equal length from the photo but could just be the angle.

They're as close as we could reasonably package but to be honest equal length was only a secondary goal.  To quote David Vizard, equal length is far less important than the right length.  Case in point, perfectly identical equal length "3/4 length" headers just mean that none of the tubes will achieve pulse wave tuning.  In a properly designed long tube header, length is driven by the shock wave at exhaust valve open that heads down the primary at the speed of sound, then when it hits the first major change in cross sectional area the negative reflected pulse wave heads up stream.  You want to time this negative pressure front to occur at valve overlap.  However the math only works perfects for one length, one exhaust temperature, for one ideal RPM.  In practice we see a great deal of benefit over a range of RPMs since the shock wave has some duration to it.

The key point is that, yes equal length is nice to but it's not that big a deal if one runner is ideal at 5800 rpm while the one next to it is ideal at 6500 rpm.  But that would still be a 10% runner length difference.   However, if the shorter tube only comes into play at 8000 rpm, that doesn't work so well for our engines. The RIGHT length, that matters a great deal and that's where we spent our major effort.

Joel
Title: Re: Ronin RX-LS Swap Headers!
Post by: Exidous on July 30, 2018, 02:41:42 AM
Fair enough. If be curious if you could phase match the runners similarly to electrical length of RF cables. Meaning, as long as the length is in whole wavelength steps you get no interference.
Title: Re: Ronin RX-LS Swap Headers!
Post by: freeskier7791 on July 30, 2018, 05:55:09 AM
Nice job joel.  Always good to see a set of headers with long runners.  Are you gonna dyno test these?

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Ronin RX-LS Swap Headers!
Post by: Track_FC on August 22, 2018, 05:51:02 PM
Any updates on the headers?
Title: Re: Ronin RX-LS Swap Headers!
Post by: DailyDSM on August 23, 2018, 10:49:52 AM
^What he said.  New engine is going back in my car in the next couple weeks and I've been dragging my feet a bit in order to time it with one of the prototype sets, if they will be available.
Title: Re: Ronin RX-LS Swap Headers!
Post by: Exidous on August 28, 2018, 06:41:24 AM
Seems like most folks are really interested in SS. Personally, I'm more interested in a mild steel(or stainless but $$$) ceramic coated version? I like the corrosion resistance of the SS but ceramic/mild steel seemed to do better with under hood heat and noise. The only downfall is under the car if you scrape off the coating like I did with my JTR's.

Oh and pics please!!!  :secret:
Title: Re: Ronin RX-LS Swap Headers!
Post by: 65imp on August 30, 2018, 02:40:33 PM
You guys will get pics when we have some to show.  Our new bender is installed, and we should be situated with appropriate dies for proper bends soon.  We went with slightly thicker Stainless pipe for longevity and reduced noise, but then we needed non-standard dies, and on and on. 
Also Joel has interesting developments, but I will let him share.
Title: Re: Ronin RX-LS Swap Headers!
Post by: staticx27 on August 30, 2018, 04:53:04 PM
Depending on when these come out, I might even be down to prototype a set too ;)
Title: Re: Ronin RX-LS Swap Headers!
Post by: onefastrx7turbo on October 04, 2018, 03:33:50 PM
If you still need an FC for testing, I'm 100% in, tell me where to send the money!
Title: Re: Ronin RX-LS Swap Headers!
Post by: frijolee on October 09, 2018, 11:32:37 PM
Thanks for your patience y'all.

Like many things sometimes you have to overcome the difficulties before you reach success.

In this case, I know I threw a pretty big wrench in the works with my new job and pending move to an island.   I haven't been able to sit down for a proper work session.  It's also been hard to get time on the bender.  Since setup took longer than they wanted (and they're still fighting heat issues with it) our shop has made a conscious choice to prioritize some easy but lucrative work over finishing up our R&D effort.  We get it, they went balls deep buying this thing and now it needs to make a return as quickly as possible... 

I'm stoked folks are into these but it's going to take some more time before we get there.
Title: Re: Ronin RX-LS Swap Headers!
Post by: onefastrx7turbo on October 10, 2018, 12:14:21 PM
All good, Joel! Life is what happens when you're busy planning things :)