NoRotors.com - RX7 Engine Swap Forum

Technical Information => Build Threads => Topic started by: XLR8 on November 03, 2013, 11:52:42 PM

Title: XLR8's Dark Side Build: 416ci's of fun!
Post by: XLR8 on November 03, 2013, 11:52:42 PM
The Decision

Hello everyone!  After much much debate, I have decided to go for an LS3 swap in my FD.  I recently completed a long single turbo rotary project and put down 540whp @24psi.  The rear rotor let go and I was once again faced with the decision of a LS swap.  I have thought about it in the past, but never really gave it serious thought.  After driving a friend's LS3 FD, and doing a little "soul searching", I think an LS3 swap will fit my needs the best for this time in my life.  I'm getting sick of always wrenching and not driving the car.  This will be the last build for this car, and it will be a good one....

As the car sits....

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20130825_131134_zps790d68aa.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20130825_131134_zps790d68aa.jpg.html)
(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20130824_001745_zps10892c00.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20130824_001745_zps10892c00.jpg.html)

As you can see, my FD is very well put together.  My plan is of course to sell off ALL parts rotary related.  I easily have $10k even with a blown rear rotor.  In actuality, I think the rear apex seal is warped, which give way to no damage and a bit of money for my new rotor housings.  In any case, stripping the bay and drivetrain will take some time.

Power Plant

I have been really looking at two major options for this build.  The options must meet my overall criteria.  It must be relatively tame for the street, and it must be as quick as the rotary (within reason).  I will retain both PS, and A/C.  I will be using all Samberg swap parts for this project.  His radiator and intake as well.

1.  GMPP LS376/480 crate engine.  From what I can see, this LS3 with the "hot cam" would give me a mild manor street car, but give me a nice boost from the stock LS3.  I imagine it would dyno out at around 450-460whp with full headers, intake, and tune.

2.  GMPP LS376/525 crate engine.  I originally thought this would be best, but as I looked at the ASA cam used, I feel it may be a bit much for the street.  I have searched around and I do get mixed opinions on this setup.  I imagine it would dyno close to 480-490whp with proper support.

3.  Turnkey 427 LS3 Stroker.  Obviously the "cut throat" approach to what I want.  The only real reservation with this approach is the cost.  I have seen them put down 500-550whp with no issues and still be well mannered.  Ultimately, this is what I want, but I'm not sure if I am ready to bite off the price tag.  It may take some convincing to my wife on this one....  I do realize I could start with the 6.2, and if I were inclined, eventually pull the motor for a revision.  I am still debating on all of this though.


As I start to part out my setup, and do more research, I feel things will become more clear.  Any and ALL opinions are welcome!!

Thanks everyone.
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: mefarri on November 04, 2013, 12:06:44 AM
Glad you made the smart choice.   8)  I've commented in your thread on the club.  The car is super nice.  As far as being as quick as the rotary.... Just get ready.   :cheers:   What you need to do first is get the car weighed in it's current form and then at the end so you can some undeniable evidence that you haven't "ruined" the car when the fan boys on the club give you shit like they already started to. 
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: XLR8 on November 04, 2013, 12:15:30 AM
Glad you made the smart choice.   8)  I've commented in your thread on the club.  The car is super nice.  As far as being as quick as the rotary.... Just get ready.   :cheers:   What you need to do first is get the car weighed in it's current form and then at the end so you can some undeniable evidence that you haven't "ruined" the car when the fan boys on the club give you shit like they already started to.

Oh it's been getting deep over there...lol.  :secret:

I remember seeing your comments from time to time.  I didn't realize you were an LS guy.  Nonetheless, thanks for the warm welcome.  I really do feel like it's the best choice.  I really love rotaries.... but they just don't have the power and reliability that I am looking for right now.

It's funny, if I threw a NA 20B in it, they would be praising my 350whp masterpiece.... lol



Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: digitalsolo on November 04, 2013, 08:59:13 AM
Sounds/looks like a nice build, and also, welcome!

I don't believe the ASA cam is really all that big;  a good tune should make it very streetable.   Any and all of the listed options will do you well though.  :)
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: mefarri on November 04, 2013, 09:44:28 AM
Glad you made the smart choice.   8)  I've commented in your thread on the club.  The car is super nice.  As far as being as quick as the rotary.... Just get ready.   :cheers:   What you need to do first is get the car weighed in it's current form and then at the end so you can some undeniable evidence that you haven't "ruined" the car when the fan boys on the club give you shit like they already started to.

Oh it's been getting deep over there...lol.  :secret:

I remember seeing your comments from time to time.  I didn't realize you were an LS guy.  Nonetheless, thanks for the warm welcome.  I really do feel like it's the best choice.  I really love rotaries.... but they just don't have the power and reliability that I am looking for right now.

It's funny, if I threw a NA 20B in it, they would be praising my 350whp masterpiece.... lol




Lol.  You'll also find this forum is bar none the best on the internet.  With your attitude towards building you'll fit right in.  Blake (digitalsolo) is the owner/grandmaster daddy moderator, but can be bought off with sexual favors involving Tabasco sauce.
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: bikedad on November 04, 2013, 09:52:13 AM
Glad you made the smart choice.   8)  I've commented in your thread on the club.  The car is super nice.  As far as being as quick as the rotary.... Just get ready.   :cheers:   What you need to do first is get the car weighed in it's current form and then at the end so you can some undeniable evidence that you haven't "ruined" the car when the fan boys on the club give you shit like they already started to.

Oh it's been getting deep over there...lol.  :secret:

I remember seeing your comments from time to time.  I didn't realize you were an LS guy.  Nonetheless, thanks for the warm welcome.  I really do feel like it's the best choice.  I really love rotaries.... but they just don't have the power and reliability that I am looking for right now.

It's funny, if I threw a NA 20B in it, they would be praising my 350whp masterpiece.... lol




Lol.  You'll also find this forum is bar none the best on the internet.  With your attitude towards building you'll fit right in.  Blake (digitalsolo) is the owner/grandmaster daddy moderator, but can be bought off with sexual favors involving Tabasco sauce.

And Sprecher Rootbeer   :chug:
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: largeorangefont on November 04, 2013, 10:18:29 AM
I think you'll be fine with the 376/525. I have the ASA cam in a 346 cube LS1 and it has pretty good manners and sounds awesome. It will be even more tame with another 30 cubes.
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: Mik3ymomo on November 04, 2013, 12:43:53 PM
Its my car that Josh drove. We will meet up tomorrow so he can evaluate it a bit better. He was focused on the seats I had in it and not the swap at the time.

Having spent my share of money on rotary rebuilds myself its the logical approach. More and more folks realize this and once able to experience a swapped car goes a long way in  convincing previous rotorheads.

- Mike
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: CharmCity7 on November 05, 2013, 01:08:17 PM
muhahaha, yes!!!!!!  This is great, I love this car.  Sorry to hear about the motor, but glad you are coming to the darkside.  Go big and do the Ls7.  Honestly, I think ls3 are pointless for the money.  They don't make much more power than an ls1/6, and are more expensive.

-Austin
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: XLR8 on November 05, 2013, 09:20:18 PM
Thanks for the welcomes and input everyone!! 

I just got back from a ride in Mikes LS3 FD and I am impressed.  Definitely a different feel and sound but I was instantly confirmed that I will be doing the swap.  I was 99% sure, but I wanted to ride in one again to make sure.  In any case, let the rotary parts sellathon begin!! 8)

As far as my options go, I am really torn.  I have been researching the 525hp as much as possible to see how it will deal with PS, A/C, and vacuum brakes.  It's a mixed bag really.  Most of the positive responses I got on it are from you all.  I see that they are pretty widely used in muscle car swaps and other street car applications, so I assume the drive-ability isn't that bad.  Just as Mike said, if I don't like the cam, I can always swap it out.

As far as an LS7 goes, I have looked at them.  I would really like to go in guns blazing but I just don't think it will happen.  My wife and I just recently bought a house in MS where we will be living for the next 5 years.  I also just spent a small fortune on the epic rotary build that I am now selling off.  An LS7 crate engine is almost twice that of a LS3.  Obviously more capable, but I just don't think it's in the cards this time around.  However, down the road, a stroker motor may be doable.

I'm planning on a very clean and simple LS3 swap.  In my usual fashion, the attention will be in the details. 

Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: zbrown on November 05, 2013, 10:18:21 PM
dont do anything rash

research alot before you pull the trigger on anything

the point of the ls3 vs the ls6/ls1 is the bore for head choices

you can put together a stout and strong combo for less and better than the crate engines offered if you research and take your time
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: XLR8 on November 05, 2013, 10:29:40 PM
dont do anything rash

research alot before you pull the trigger on anything

the point of the ls3 vs the ls6/ls1 is the bore for head choices

you can put together a stout and strong combo for less and better than the crate engines offered if you research and take your time

Thanks for the advice.  Yes, I have definitely been looking at that option as well.  But as you mentioned, it will be awhile before I pull the trigger on anything.  I have a ton of parts to sell at the best possible price, a house to move in to, and a lot of research to do. 

Thanks!
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: karsty on November 06, 2013, 11:29:17 AM
Subscribed.  Beautiful car and great attention to detail.
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: halfspec on November 06, 2013, 02:37:34 PM
Welcome!

I followed your build thread on the club and also enjoyed your review of the Ronin Mazdaspeed hood. You do very good work and I'm sure a lot of us will enjoy your future build thread. Don't worry about the internet jabs from the rotary guys. I've never gotten anything but complements from rotary guys in person. It's a whole different ball game when they witness what's going on in person ;)

I saw in your thread that you're heading down here in January. What part of MS are you moving to?
Feel free to PM me if you think I can help you with anything. I do a lot with AC for LS FDs which I saw is something you definitely want (trust me, you'll need it in MS) so if you need help or a kit just hit me up.

Lane
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: XLR8 on November 09, 2013, 03:50:27 PM
Welcome!

I followed your build thread on the club and also enjoyed your review of the Ronin Mazdaspeed hood. You do very good work and I'm sure a lot of us will enjoy your future build thread. Don't worry about the internet jabs from the rotary guys. I've never gotten anything but complements from rotary guys in person. It's a whole different ball game when they witness what's going on in person ;)

I saw in your thread that you're heading down here in January. What part of MS are you moving to?
Feel free to PM me if you think I can help you with anything. I do a lot with AC for LS FDs which I saw is something you definitely want (trust me, you'll need it in MS) so if you need help or a kit just hit me up.

Lane


Hey buddy!  Glad you liked the Mazdaspeed hood review. :).  Now let's see if it fits with the LS swap...lol

Thanks for the offers and info.  I will be hitting you up for sure!  Still lots of learning and research to do.  Definitely want to get this swap just right, since it will likely be the last one for awhile.

I am moving to Biloxi, MS.  My wife and I are active duty Air Force and we have orders to Keesler AFB.  We will be moving into our new house in January.  8)
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: gnx7 on November 09, 2013, 05:41:24 PM
Beautiful donor car to start with.  You are going to love instant torque combined with a sub 3,000lb car.  It rips.

I sell new T56 Magnums if you want a trans that shifts better than the older style T56's and is very beefy.  PM me for details. One of the best mods I did to my car... aside from the suspension and LS7 ;)
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: radiomike on November 09, 2013, 08:38:28 PM
Have you thought about an LS3 takeout from a nominal miles Camaro SS?  This is the route we took with our rhd and you get all the parts you need except the oil pan kit which you need to remove to fit a cam anyway.  All the SS accessories fit the FD, even the exhaust manifolds fit if you don't want to go 4 branch, all you have to do is flip the throttle body 180 degrees to free up space for the header tank which also makes the bonnet clear.  Trans is the excellent 6060 which can be made even better with an MGW shifter and the PS pump is easily modified with a Turn One restrictor to match the FD rack.
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: XLR8 on November 10, 2013, 01:34:20 AM
Beautiful donor car to start with.  You are going to love instant torque combined with a sub 3,000lb car.  It rips.

I sell new T56 Magnums if you want a trans that shifts better than the older style T56's and is very beefy.  PM me for details. One of the best mods I did to my car... aside from the suspension and LS7 ;)

Thank you!  I finally got my exterior just the way I want it.  I have been looking at the Magnums and have heard great things about them.  On that note,  how do you sort out the shifter position compared to the standard T56?  Also, I assume you use a Quick Time bell housing to connect it to the engine?

Thanks buddy.  ;)

Have you thought about an LS3 takeout from a nominal miles Camaro SS?  This is the route we took with our rhd and you get all the parts you need except the oil pan kit which you need to remove to fit a cam anyway.  All the SS accessories fit the FD, even the exhaust manifolds fit if you don't want to go 4 branch, all you have to do is flip the throttle body 180 degrees to free up space for the header tank which also makes the bonnet clear.  Trans is the excellent 6060 which can be made even better with an MGW shifter and the PS pump is easily modified with a Turn One restrictor to match the FD rack.

I originally considered this but once I started looking around, and saw what was being offered I was really only saving the cost of the transmission (if that). Most LS3/6060 combo's are going for $8-10k with with 30-60k miles.  With not knowing anything about these engines, it seems risky to me.  Granted most would probably be fine, but it's hard to justify the cost when for just a few thousand more, I can have everything fresh.  GMPP also sells the accessory kits for a decent price at around $600, so I'm not gaining a lot with a used engine there either.  Of course I have been looking at the Billet Specialties too.

Unless you are finding better deals??? :D

Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: jeffp5 on November 12, 2013, 01:22:55 PM
just posted in your club thread. Great build. glad you made it over here. You will find people here who are a great resource for your build. Your past history shows your attention to detail that should make this pretty simple for you.


You wont be disappointed with the decision. I have yet to hear anyone say "damn, i should have kept the rotary".

Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: ls3_rob on November 12, 2013, 01:57:43 PM
I bought the gm crate ls3 and also the gmpp harness/ecu

It was all brand new

and only around $6000

I couldnt be happier everything was literally plug and play

good luck (ps i would buy all of sambergs products)
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: FC3S Murray on November 13, 2013, 10:31:19 PM
This will be one clean FD when finished!

Only advice I can give you since I went through this 3 years ago is really sit and think on what you want to do. I too went the cam only route but honestly wish I would have just put heads on my LS back then(I just finished my head swap this summer and am tuning it myself with hptuners).

It is much easier in the long run and cheaper to get it all finished in one try....tuning is not cheap and sucks to have to pay for twice.

Anyway, welcome and you will not regret your decision, I love the way my RX is now and the attention you get is pretty fun too :).
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: XLR8 on November 16, 2013, 12:56:30 AM
Thanks ALL  :drive:
The 402/403 LS2 strokers have caught my eye.  Seems to be a great street combo for around 500whp in NA form.  Doing more research.
Thoughts?
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: FC3S Murray on November 16, 2013, 01:32:48 AM
Get a good strong 8.8 rear end for that rwhp & trq. Who is selling the stroker?

Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: mefarri on November 16, 2013, 12:54:47 PM
He's saying the idea of the 402.   I know you'll be happy with that.
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: XLR8 on November 16, 2013, 03:25:49 PM
Get a good strong 8.8 rear end for that rwhp & trq. Who is selling the stroker?

Lol.. yeah.  The rear and axles are definitely on my mind with that kind of power.  I was considering the Kaaz rear but I definitely need to research it's limits more.  What use to be the answer for the rotary may not cut it with wicked V8 torque.  ;)  My plans are to eventually re-drum my rear's to an 11 for 305/315s.  Once the traction comes, I think an 8.8 may be necessary.

With the engine, I have found a few companies selling long blocks, crates, and even turn keys.  Honestly, the best price I have found was with Dahmer Power-train Inc.  Spotted one of their engines on ebay.  Being a total newb, I'm not familiar with the brand of components so I need to research.  I will also be EFI for sure.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/GM-LS-403-Stroker-560-HP-Chevrolet-6-0L-Chevy-Motor-/110676645194?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item19c4d7954a&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/GM-LS-403-Stroker-560-HP-Chevrolet-6-0L-Chevy-Motor-/110676645194?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item19c4d7954a&vxp=mtr)

Then there's the pricey option...

http://www.turnkeyenginesupply.com/ls2-6-0l-580-hp-stroker-crate-engine/ (http://www.turnkeyenginesupply.com/ls2-6-0l-580-hp-stroker-crate-engine/)

Ultimately, I still need to look into everything.  I've never built an engine, but if I am starting with good parts, I don't think I can go wrong doing it myself.  I just picked up two nice books on building LSx engines step by step.  Just like ZBrown recommended, I'm going to take my time and make sure I make the right choice.


He's saying the idea of the 402.   I know you'll be happy with that.
Yeah, I think I will too.  From what I have seen, I can hit 500whp on the money with around 400ci.  It's doable with less displacement but I need to string it out a little and I loose some driveability.  I would like to get there and still have good manors for the street.  I have no plans to race or drag my car, so it really is solely for public roads.
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: CharmCity7 on November 17, 2013, 08:21:32 AM
Lol.. yeah.  The rear and axles are definitely on my mind with that kind of power.  I was considering the Kaaz rear but I definitely need to research it's limits more.  What use to be the answer for the rotary may not cut it with wicked V8 torque.  ;)  My plans are to eventually re-drum my rear's to an 11 for 305/315s.  Once the traction comes, I think an 8.8 may be necessary.

The biggest advantage with the 8.8 rears in these cars is not necessarily their strength, but the options for gears.  Idk that much about Kaaz rears, but I have to imagine they don't come in anything taller than a 3.90.  Making 500 rwhp, I think a 3.73 would be beneficial.  Some of the higher hp guys would have to chime in on this.  Plus, kaaz rears still use the factory housing, correct?  Which is known to be as large of a weak point as the spyder gears and other internal areas.

Your flared rear fenders certainly will allow a nice wide tire, but your still limited on tire height just like other fds.

Food for thought when considering rear ends.  in my opinion, 8.8 is the only way to go.

-Austin
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: CharmCity7 on November 17, 2013, 08:23:38 AM
Double post, my B
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: Bowtie7 on November 17, 2013, 08:58:11 AM
We did the LS3 376/480 w/hot cam from Scoggin Dickey. The car makes right at 460 with headers (1 3/4) and really works well. Good luck and have fun. It is a trip worth taking!
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: XLR8 on November 17, 2013, 04:59:00 PM
Thanks for the info guys!!  Awesome stuff.
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: zbrown on November 17, 2013, 06:41:02 PM
http://ls1tech.com/forums/parts-classifieds/1685840-forged-ls7-fbody-ready.html (http://ls1tech.com/forums/parts-classifieds/1685840-forged-ls7-fbody-ready.html)
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: XLR8 on November 17, 2013, 06:45:41 PM
YES SIR!  I have been watching that one too.  Trying to get these rotary parts out the damn door!!
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: zbrown on November 17, 2013, 07:07:29 PM
trust me that would put a smile on your face no matter the day

an ls7 topend is the ticket for NA results, WCCH is legit, same people who do Nelsons head work


so you know if you plan on a stroker the ls7 block is the best platform because it has longer sleeves


getting your cubes from that 4.125 bore vs stroke with the ls2/ls3 strokers gets you a stronger piston that is more stable in the bore and you unshroud the valves more up top


Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: mefarri on November 17, 2013, 11:33:55 PM
/\ Listen to him.  ;)
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: karsty on November 18, 2013, 09:52:08 AM
I will be so freakin' jealous if you throw a built LS7 into your FD!
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: XLR8 on November 18, 2013, 07:42:23 PM
http://ls1tech.com/forums/parts-classifieds/1685840-forged-ls7-fbody-ready.html (http://ls1tech.com/forums/parts-classifieds/1685840-forged-ls7-fbody-ready.html)

Talking with him now.  Things are looking good.

I will be so freakin' jealous if you throw a built LS7 into your FD!

It will be surreal. 
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: zbrown on November 18, 2013, 09:42:10 PM
very nice
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: mefarri on November 18, 2013, 10:41:18 PM
Daddy likes.
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: XLR8 on November 18, 2013, 11:33:17 PM
very nice

Daddy likes.

Yeah guys, should be putting down a deposit tomorrow.  Cool fella.  He is local to me and this engine was built by his shop, with a warranty  :).  Dude seems to be a real straight shooter.  Willing to help me out on getting the F-body oil pan on, and sourcing a few other parts since it is a long block.

I'll keep everyone posted!!  :cheers:
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: mefarri on November 18, 2013, 11:48:27 PM
When it's done, take any of those whiny ass rotards local to you on a ride and video it.  Then post all their reactions on the club.   :cheers:
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: mefarri on November 18, 2013, 11:49:22 PM
I have a set of LS7 dry sump lines brand new that you can have for free if you want em. 
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: MPbdy on November 18, 2013, 11:51:34 PM
650 horsepower rotary to 650 horsepower ls7.

One of these things is not like the other.
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: Bigblockquad on November 19, 2013, 12:09:59 AM
If you pass on that LS7 you might want to look into a re-sleeved 5.3 (L33).  They are internally stronger than an LS7 and, even re-sleeved, are cheaper even when stroked.  I found out the hard way when the stroked LS7 in my M3 shit the bed.
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: zbrown on November 19, 2013, 08:01:46 AM
He is running the stock ls7 stroke of 4" he is also running a short snout crank
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: zbrown on November 19, 2013, 08:04:32 AM
Badass BTW. I approve. Sadly I hope you aren't tooo disappointed with the "narrow power band" of that thing lol
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: mefarri on November 19, 2013, 10:01:59 AM
Lol.  Just show them the dyno graph where it starts at 450wtq from idle.

And yea I never clicked the link.  Man, what a deal compared to the crate engines.... :yay:
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: CharmCity7 on November 19, 2013, 10:23:46 PM
I read your build thread on rx7 club every night before bed just because it puts a smile on my face, lol.


-Austin
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: mefarri on November 19, 2013, 11:05:04 PM
You should check it out now.  Apparently we over here aren't aware of the LS series' "narrow powerband."  I shit you not. 
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: XLR8 on November 19, 2013, 11:48:34 PM
Well gentlemen, I have put down the deposit on my forged LS7 engine, and all is right with the world!!  :drive:

Did I mention he owns a shop and is going to warranty it?  Just a few precautions with priming on first startup he said he would walk me through and we are set.  I definitely want to thank you guys for pushing my in the right direction, and Zbrown for posting the link.  I had seen it before but wasn't thinking too hard since I really didn't have the money.  One week later I'm slinging rotary parts like a Japanese junk yard, and my Paypal account has never looked so good.

I should be picking it up in a few weeks.  :cheers:

Mefarri - Thanks on the lines!!  But I am going to run an Fbody pan.  I'm not tracking and it keeps the bay cleaner without needing to mount the tank.  Of course, your thoughts and advice is appreciated.  Seem like a good idea? :)

Zbrown - I got in contact with Digitalsolo about a harness setup.  Yep, he is the man.  Thanks for the info and advice. 

As far as the narrow power band.... I laughed too.  After taking one ride in Mike's car I knew it was the right decision.  I have had a few people ask me if I am still going to DGRR and I sure am.... terrorize mode  >:( :D :D

Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: mefarri on November 20, 2013, 12:55:31 AM
Lol.  Love it.  Congrats.  That will keep your car on the "next level" where you're used to. 

So if you haven't looked yet, you'll find that the FAST brand of intake manifolds don't really fit inside the FD bay.  Now you've got an aftermarket hood so it might fit vertically, but I'm pretty certain they all require cutting the lip on the firewall which I'm sure you won't want to do. 

What engine management are you going to use?  HP tuners should more than suffice.


Oh and you should def use the badge "RX7.0"     :D
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: CharmCity7 on November 20, 2013, 07:00:17 AM
Well gentlemen, I have put down the deposit on my forged LS7 engine, and all is right with the world!!  :drive:
 

As far as the narrow power band.... I laughed too.  After taking one ride in Mike's car I knew it was the right decision.  I have had a few people ask me if I am still going to DGRR and I sure am.... terrorize mode  >:( :D :D

Well, I am officially jealous....So stoked to see this project once it's completed.


Mike's car is stock cam I believe also?  Honestly, that's just a brief preview of what your in store for.   The torque that ls7/cam is going to make is going to blow your mind the first time.... 

You should check it out now.  Apparently we over here aren't aware of the LS series' "narrow powerband."  I shit you not. 

Oh, I had just read that post and was still laughing as I found my way over to this board to post.  Its not even worth arguing with them because most over there actually believe the dumb stuff that they type.



So if you haven't looked yet, you'll find that the FAST brand of intake manifolds don't really fit inside the FD bay.  Now you've got an aftermarket hood so it might fit vertically, but I'm pretty certain they all require cutting the lip on the firewall which I'm sure you won't want to do. 

While a FAST makes perfect sense I don't see Josh even needing to mess with it for his desired power levels.  People make 550rwhp all day on stock ls7 manifolds.  Did the motor come with a manifold Josh?

-Austin
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: CharmCity7 on November 20, 2013, 07:08:19 AM
Damn it, double post again.  Im retarded.
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: cool on November 20, 2013, 08:09:40 AM
Reading the last 4 pages of your thread on the club reminded me why I quit visiting that site. 
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: mefarri on November 20, 2013, 09:39:06 AM
Do the stock LS7's fit under the hood?  Why am I thinking that people switched to a LS3 intake manifold?  That could be off, but it's in my head for some reason. 
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: zbrown on November 20, 2013, 10:32:32 AM
Ls7 is different than other square port stuff. It needs its own unique manifold

The stock ls7 manifold is a good manifold and good for real estate
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: zbrown on November 20, 2013, 10:40:27 AM
Here is good info for you

Richard is WCCH

http://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iv-internal-engine/438754-stock-ls7-flow-info.html (http://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iv-internal-engine/438754-stock-ls7-flow-info.html)


I said tech is horrible for advice and it is. It is good if you know who and who not to listen to

Kinda like the barban tool bag on your other thread
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: Mik3ymomo on November 20, 2013, 05:36:56 PM
This is shaping up nicely! Congrats on the LS7!

Yeah they had to take out the riot gear and water cannons over there.

But like all Zombie's I expect them back.
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: XLR8 on November 20, 2013, 10:51:32 PM
Thanks guys!  I am VERY stoked about getting this engine. 

Yes, I do plan to run the OEM LS7 intake manifold.  He does have a FAST available for a discount price, but it does add to the clearance issues from what I have seen .  I know my Mazdaspeed hood will be close as it is, so I don't want to push it.  Besides, it looks like the OEM will provide all I will need.

I have been looking for the Rx-7.0 badges but haven't found anything.  WHERE do I found that sweetness?????  8)

I guess I haven't posted any real progress pictures since it's all mostly been learning and discussing options.  So here is my progress..... getting bare... :D

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/20131120_220634_zps2c80b602.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/20131120_220634_zps2c80b602.jpg.html)
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: zbrown on November 20, 2013, 11:09:08 PM
So it begins!
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: mefarri on November 20, 2013, 11:31:34 PM
Contact Gnx7 (Mark) about the badges.  His old company used to make em.  He may have a set somewhere.
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: goracer on November 21, 2013, 12:31:38 AM
That's it?  :popcorn: Well I guess you need to sell the rest of the parts. Back in the day I was debating I was debating an Edelbrock Supercharger and i'm not sure if it was them that made the engine also, but it was CA legal. I've had my car for 10 years and drove it a total of 10 months. I am watching to see the cost and work involved. I know there is radiator and engine cradle kits but none of the threads I read years ago seemed like it was possible to drop in and run over a weekend. ...i'm also debating buying your turbo and ECU just to sell the car running.
 :drive: <- Me in my 7 on jack stands making car noises.
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: karsty on November 21, 2013, 10:01:22 AM
Man, you don't mess around when you say you're starting a project!

Time to change your build thread title and your sig.  LS3?...phhhhttt.
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: XLR8 on November 22, 2013, 10:55:04 PM
Quick question...


I am running a Walbro 485 pump.  She is rewired with an aftermarket bulkhead, and 40amp relay.  The LS7 utilizes a return-less fuel system.  I am considering using the Holley Dominator ECU.


Easier to convert the rails to a return system with a regualtor?
Easier to run returnless?  What would be required?


Thanks guys!
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: digitalsolo on November 22, 2013, 11:10:01 PM
You can convert the rails very easily.    That would be my recommended path.
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: mefarri on November 23, 2013, 10:45:02 AM
What fuel bulkhead are you using? 90% of the ones I see being used are totally not rated for that use.
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: XLR8 on November 23, 2013, 04:51:50 PM
What fuel bulkhead are you using? 90% of the ones I see being used are totally not rated for that use.

Works very well.  I am using both channels to run the pump.

http://www.racetronix.biz/itemdesc.asp?ic=BCWS-001&Tp= (http://www.racetronix.biz/itemdesc.asp?ic=BCWS-001&Tp=)

Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: Demon on November 23, 2013, 05:09:51 PM
Nice, I'm super jealous of that motor.  Throw your 10sec goal out the window. That thing should easily run 9.7's NA!!
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: mefarri on November 23, 2013, 05:52:07 PM
Good good.
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: XLR8 on November 23, 2013, 08:47:07 PM
So here is another couple of questions....

I am really considering Holley's EFI.  The HP does exactly what I need it to do....except DBW throttle body.  For that, I need the Dominator.  The Dominator has a lot more outputs like boost control, but is the same basic function.   Obviously more than what I need, and it's also a bit more in cost.

I really wanted to keep DBW as it's nice not to have to mess with an IAC.  They also have a cleaner look under the hood with no cable.  However, I know they present their own batch of problems. 

I have looked at the OEM's, and I am really leaning towards a stand alone.  Everyone seems to really like the Holley EFI.  I downloaded the software and looked it over, and it seems very intuitive. 

Thoughts, recommendations?

Thanks guys!!
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: digitalsolo on November 23, 2013, 11:23:44 PM
I am putting ProEFI in my car.    The biggest reason for me was the engine safety features and driveability.
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: halfspec on November 23, 2013, 11:37:39 PM
What fuel bulkhead are you using? 90% of the ones I see being used are totally not rated for that use.

Works very well.  I am using both channels to run the pump.

http://www.racetronix.biz/itemdesc.asp?ic=BCWS-001&Tp= (http://www.racetronix.biz/itemdesc.asp?ic=BCWS-001&Tp=)


Congrats! You've passed Matt's criteria for proper wiring to the fuel pump. Countless souls have failed. I only barely escaped because my pump is external ;)
Good stuff. Bookmarking.

Lane

PS
ProEFI FTMFW. I don't even own one but I wish I did!

Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: 1point3liter on November 24, 2013, 12:04:22 AM
Very nice car. I was also a single turbo rotard about 10 or 11 years ago before i made the swap to LS power.

Welcome to the board.
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: mefarri on November 24, 2013, 12:10:34 AM
Lol lane. 

So why are you wanting a standalone vs. HP tuners.  This isn't like most import stuff.  The stock computer in these works really well.  zbrown is running 8.7's on HP tuners.
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: zbrown on November 24, 2013, 12:26:10 AM
For a street car that is NA and dbw I think the OEM computer is great

It can be configured to start, idle, and drive like a stock vette in no time

IMO

Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: digitalsolo on November 24, 2013, 09:23:48 AM
The biggest downside I can think of for stock ECU with DBW is inability to tune the goofy stock throttle curve.    That's a minor thing vs. 3000-4000 dollars to upgrade it to an equally capable system.
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: halfspec on November 24, 2013, 09:48:57 AM
Lol lane. 

So why are you wanting a standalone vs. HP tuners.  This isn't like most import stuff.  The stock computer in these works really well.  zbrown is running 8.7's on HP tuners.

My position has definitely been influenced by the tuning trouble I've had on my vehicle, so I'll just throw that out there. I just think I would have had an easier time tuning with a solution that was built from the group up be tuned.
Additionally, I purchased HPtuners, Racelogic TC, AEM WB, and did all the wiring to support it. If you do the math, it would have only cost a little bit more to go with a standalone from the beginning...

I do agree though. There isn't a lot the stock ECU can't do and its an especially good choice for us NA guys. I think I'll be perfectly happy once I get a good tune and some dyno time.

Lane
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: Ruler_Mark on November 26, 2013, 04:40:24 PM
Super jeli of the motor, im on stock ecm. There is a single turbo junkyard motor in a 240 in fl that is on a stock ecu in the 8s tuned by jeremy formato down here.
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: XLR8 on November 26, 2013, 11:03:25 PM
Thanks for the input guys!  Still looking everything over. 


FAST just released their EZ-EFI LS with swaps in mind.  Not a bad price if it works well.  There are quite a few happy campers on LS1tech that use it, but I haven't heard anything about their new LS series, as it just came out.  I'm no dummy when it comes to the "self tune" systems out there.  I am well aware human input will always exceed what the ECU can learn in closed loop.  However, with a nice mix of both, a flexible system can be made to work well.  I have yet to hear a bad story about the FAST.  The 2.0 also enables fuel and advance changes.  Looking further into it.  Also looking at the Holley.  Their harness turned me off, as you have to buy every little extension, but thanks to some killer vendors here on the forum, they provide an easy way around that BS.


Been looking at alot of ECU's.  My main gripe is really what halfspec said with the OEM.   By the time I get the harness, PCM, and tuner to dial it in (HP tuner, EFI Live, etc), I am around the price of a quality aftermarket. 


In other news I am looking super hard at Billet Specialties high mount Tru Trac accessory kit.  YES, I know it's stupid over priced.  YES, I know I'm not building a show car... but good gravy does it look fantastic.  I figure hey... only gotta buy it once....  8) 8) .... With some remote mount coils, milspec harness and some other strategically color coded items, I should get my desired look.


(http://www.billetspecialties.com/assets/1/23/DimLarge/13450_C1.png)
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: Sho Amo on November 27, 2013, 06:04:03 PM
It looks like it sits way too far forward for an FD.
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: XLR8 on December 03, 2013, 11:11:15 PM
Engine Time!!

Here are some pics of the engine, before assembly.  I went over to his house to check out the action.  I am sourcing quite a few parts from the builder.  Getting things pieced together before I move to MS in January.  There will still be lots to do, but it's definitely a start...


(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/IMG_20131202_101855_878_zps5e46e077.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/IMG_20131202_101855_878_zps5e46e077.jpg.html)
(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/IMG_20131202_101836_850_zpsaad066f0.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/IMG_20131202_101836_850_zpsaad066f0.jpg.html)
(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/IMG_20131202_102417_981_zps2e23b3a6.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/IMG_20131202_102417_981_zps2e23b3a6.jpg.html)
(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/IMG_20131202_102912_429_zps6188cf58.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/IMG_20131202_102912_429_zps6188cf58.jpg.html)
(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/IMG_20131202_094936_965_zpsbe5c6925.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/IMG_20131202_094936_965_zpsbe5c6925.jpg.html)

Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: digitalsolo on December 03, 2013, 11:13:58 PM
Engine porn!
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: Demon on December 04, 2013, 07:09:34 AM
I very jealous.
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: mech-head on December 04, 2013, 01:24:32 PM
Purdy
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: XLR8 on December 04, 2013, 08:41:34 PM
I have been thinking of what I am going to do with the exhaust.  I plan on either Spoolin or JTR 1 7/8" headers.  However, I am not sure which direction to go after that.  Being all motor, at this level, I want it to flow, but I'm not sure what I will need.  I have access to the standard Racing Beat 3" twin tip, but I wasn't sure if that would choke my engine.  Obviously a "Y" into a standard FD catback would be the easiest, and cheapest option, but would it be the best.  I almost feel obligated to have a wicked "H" setup with duals.  I have been liking the Aero Turbines as well.  At the same token, I don't want it overly loud.  Carrying on a phone conversation in the car was even achievable with my 4" rotary exhaust.  As we know, my car is a street car.

Shoot out some thoughts on exhaust guys!! 

Thanks again!!
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: Demon on December 04, 2013, 08:43:57 PM
Our exhaust is a dual 3" with a Y to a single 3.5" outlet. Hinson headers (1-7/8 that fit like poop).

Aero turbines aren't cheap, lol.
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: mefarri on December 05, 2013, 12:47:38 AM
Look up Kevin Doe's exhaust build thread.  He had dual 3" and switched to a single 3.5" I believe and picked up VE across the whole map. 
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: 1point3liter on December 05, 2013, 02:44:47 PM
I have been thinking of what I am going to do with the exhaust.  I plan on either Spoolin or JTR 1 7/8" headers.  However, I am not sure which direction to go after that.  Being all motor, at this level, I want it to flow, but I'm not sure what I will need.  I have access to the standard Racing Beat 3" twin tip, but I wasn't sure if that would choke my engine.  Obviously a "Y" into a standard FD catback would be the easiest, and cheapest option, but would it be the best.  I almost feel obligated to have a wicked "H" setup with duals.  I have been liking the Aero Turbines as well.  At the same token, I don't want it overly loud.  Carrying on a phone conversation in the car was even achievable with my 4" rotary exhaust.  As we know, my car is a street car.

Shoot out some thoughts on exhaust guys!! 

Thanks again!!

If you want it quiet,  you could use the RacingBeat exhaust and install an e-cutout before it.
Also,  just a heads up, if you're going with a samburg 8.8 kit, the RB catback may not fit without modification...

Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: XLR8 on December 08, 2013, 11:39:29 PM
Great input.  Thanks
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: XLR8 on December 17, 2013, 04:54:28 PM
UPDATE

2 weeks and the engine will arrive.  I went ahead and ordered most of the other engine parts through the builder.  He gets parts at cost with most vendors so it was a viable option.  The LS7 will essentially be a crate engine with harness, ECU, fuel, and intake.  I may have DigitalSolo modify the harness, or I will try my hand at it.  I'm pretty decent with wiring, so I may just do it myself.  I'm using a Fbody ECU and EFI Live.  This also allows me to do some cool OBD stuff.

At this point I will need to get the accessories.  I am likely going with March Performance accessories, but I need to look at the fitment.  I don't think I will have issues, but I will do a bit of research before I pull the trigger on anything.  I'm still debating on keeping PS or not.  My rack is still in tact, but I am considering pulling it apart during the swap to properly "de-power" it.  I personally love the looped line so it can only get better.

I am in on the next group buy for Samberg's radiator/intake kit. 

I have also put my deposit down on Spoolin's 1 7/8 Premium merge Headers.  Very great quality from what you all have said, and what I have seen.

I will be ordering the mount kit from Ronnin as I like their powder coating and poly mounts they add to the Samberg kit.  Overall, I think it's a great deal for what they do.  Justin said he could make the provision on my driveshaft for the Magnum T56, so that is a plus.

I will post pictures of the engine in 2 weeks.  Until then, it's pretty much a waiting game.
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: mefarri on December 17, 2013, 09:52:32 PM
Good choices on everything.   :) 
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: karsty on December 18, 2013, 12:13:50 PM
LS7 + T56 Magnum...can't get much better than that.

Have you considered going with Ronin's new Explorer 8.8 rear diff mount setup?
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: hayabusa on December 18, 2013, 12:25:12 PM
The headers  for ls7 are same for ls1 -1s3?
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: jessethedrifter on December 19, 2013, 01:31:56 AM
The Decision

Awesome bro! i remember seeing your car on the rx7club. I'll be following this build  :cheers:
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: XLR8 on December 19, 2013, 05:34:19 PM
LS7 + T56 Magnum...can't get much better than that.

Have you considered going with Ronin's new Explorer 8.8 rear diff mount setup?

I have been looking at diff options and I am still on the fence.  With my use of the car, the 8.8 may be overkill.  However, it's one of those parts that are good to do....  Still looking and deciding.

Good choices on everything.   :) 

Thank you Sir. :)

The headers  for ls7 are same for ls1 -1s3?

Yes.  From my research, the flanges themselves are no different.  The LS7 has a D port exhaust but the nice large 1 7/8 of these headers will accommodate perfectly. 

Awesome bro! i remember seeing your car on the rx7club. I'll be following this build  :cheers:

Thank you.  I am very excited to get started!  Things are going to be a little slow since the Samberg parts, engine, and tranny pretty much absorbed all of the rotary funds.  However, there isn't a whole lot left to buy.  It's mostly exhaust, little stuff and accessories that will be coming out of pocket. 
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: XLR8 on December 19, 2013, 05:37:38 PM
I had a few folks as me about my wheel re-drumming plans so I thought I would post it up.

I currently run a 18x10.0 +43 (O Disk) on my Meisters.  I will have them re-drummed to a 8x11.0 +30 (O Disk).  This effectively keeps the placement the same, but pulls the outer lip out 1".  I easily have 1" of room after having my finders rolled and smoothed. 

Below is a few pictures of my current fitment.  As you can see, there is definitely room to grow.  As far as putting a 315, it may be too close with the tire and I might have to to go with a 305 and a little stretch instead.  I will definitely be doing much more measuring before I pull the trigger on anything, as this is just preliminary planning.

Thanks guys! :)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/DSC_0803.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/DSC_0803.jpg.html)
(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/DSC_0798.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/DSC_0798.jpg.html)
(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/DSC_0791.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/DSC_0791.jpg.html)
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: MPbdy on December 19, 2013, 05:39:51 PM
You won't be happy with the FD differential in this car.  You could very well break it just by driving the car hard on the street.  The 4.10 gears will be ridonculous.
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: ls3_rob on December 19, 2013, 06:01:32 PM
You won't be happy with the FD differential in this car.  You could very well break it just by driving the car hard on the street.  The 4.10 gears will be ridonculous.

would the auto 3.9 be any better? or worse?
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: Exidous on December 19, 2013, 06:08:52 PM
Better but hardly noticeable. I have the 4.10 and 1.3L less and they are WAY too aggressive. If you go the ronin setup and go to a 3.23 or 3.55 you will be much happier. Otherwise that 427 low end torque will eat your tires alive. And the diff.....

I will be going to a 3.55 as soon as the money allows.
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: ls3_rob on December 19, 2013, 06:14:28 PM
ya thats what  i was afraid of.

 I have a crate ls3 on 3.90
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: Sho Amo on December 19, 2013, 06:36:03 PM
A thread title change is in order.

Once you get this thing running, you will need to adjust what your used to shifting at. Cruising at 4k rpms in these engines isn't comfortable. I think that's the reason why you're thinking you won't need to change gearing.
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: XLR8 on December 19, 2013, 10:43:14 PM
Thanks guys!!

I was doing more research on the gears and you are absolutely right.  3.55 was also recommended by my builder.  Going with a 8.8 kit for sure. 

 
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: V8-rx7 on December 20, 2013, 09:31:44 AM
Love the build, I followed it when you still had the rotary in it. Can't wait to see what you do with the ls7.

If your planning on going 8.8 you should pick up the ronin 8.8 kit when you get your subframe, as they give you a discount on it.

Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: largeorangefont on December 20, 2013, 01:17:39 PM
Thanks guys!!

I was doing more research on the gears and you are absolutely right.  3.55 was also recommended by my builder.  Going with a 8.8 kit for sure. 

 

You can't go wrong with the 3.55 gears at your power level. Get yourself a Truetrac helical differential for the 8.8 as well, it will put the power down better compared to a traditional clutch LSD.

If you go with a Ronin 8.8 using a 06+ Explorer housing they almost all come with open diffs, so you will need a diff anyway. You can get an Explorer pullout with 3.55s for under $300 shipped.
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside build.... LS3, T56, and some NA reliability
Post by: jessethedrifter on December 22, 2013, 12:26:54 AM


Thank you.  I am very excited to get started!  Things are going to be a little slow since the Samberg parts, engine, and tranny pretty much absorbed all of the rotary funds.  However, there isn't a whole lot left to buy.  It's mostly exhaust, little stuff and accessories that will be coming out of pocket.

i feel you bro, but aye, thanks to craigslist and classifieds alot of my rotary stuff paid for my samberg goodies :)
I was originally gonna keep my 13b and turn it into a coffee table for memories but i figured i'm never looking back. might as well get all i can. still waiting on someone to buy the trans am that my motor came out of. LOL  :cheers:
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: acuracy00 on December 25, 2013, 03:08:21 PM
$300?? for the pumpkin? I got a T-Bird 8.8 with 3.73's for  $75 at a junkyard. Thing works great but has a little bit of a growl on deceleration. Oh well
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: largeorangefont on December 25, 2013, 03:18:40 PM
$300?? for the pumpkin? I got a T-Bird 8.8 with 3.73's for  $75 at a junkyard. Thing works great but has a little bit of a growl on deceleration. Oh well

Sounds like you got what you paid for. Also these aren't iron housings, the Explorer housings are aluminium, and almost certainly lower mileage than the old T bird stuff.

You can get them cheaper if you go to the junkyard yourself and pull them.

On Ebay they seem to be ~$160 and $100 to ship if you spend 5 minutes searching and want one today. I have seen them cheaper, and I have seen more expensive. I waited around for a deal and got mine for under $200 shipped.
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: Mik3ymomo on January 10, 2014, 09:28:52 AM
Any updates?
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: XLR8 on January 20, 2014, 10:56:48 PM
Updates coming soon.  I'll toss down a bunch at once since everything is going so slow.  Really just more parts collecting and saving pennies for now....
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: gnx7 on January 21, 2014, 02:14:14 AM
I would do the 3.73 gears when you get to that stage.  If the diff comes with 3.55s and you are running thin on cash... maybe just run those.  I have the 3.73's and love em.  The car pulls HARD with them.
I only use 5th gear on 1 road course out of the 3 that I normally do and that is on a long straightaway.

25.9" rear tire (335/30/18)
7300rpm redline
151mph 1/4 mile max speed in 4th

To play around with gearing/tire size etc
select 1998 M6 at the top 
http://f-body.org/gears/ (http://f-body.org/gears/)
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: XLR8 on January 29, 2014, 01:30:00 PM
Things are moving slow as I collect parts and build my pile.  I will post pictures of all the goodies once I am ready to start installing stuff.  I am doing the Cobra rear as I have one on its way.  I have been working with gnx7 and he has been helping me quite a bit.  Thanks buddy.  :cheers:

I have changed my mind on the ECU.  I will be going with Holley HP EFI.  It initially caught my eye when I was first looking, but wasn't sure how it could stack up against a OEM PCM.  I have yet to read a bad thing about its capabilities.  After playing with the software and doing some more research, I think it's a good direction.  The cost comparison really is pretty close.  Buying a PCM, harness, Flashscan, wideband, and adapting it to my setup comes up to about the same cost as Holley's kit.  It seems packaged well and the capabilities look pretty close to what I am use to tuning (Adaptronic).

I also have some cool stuff planned for my new gauge cluster setup that includes their LCD monitor, and programmable gauges.  But more on that as it gets closer.   :secret:

Should have some serious updates in a few months.  Looking to order my Samberg swap kit soon.  My radiator kit is here, and looking sharp.  My engine should be here within the next month, and I hope to be ordering my T56 Magnum as well.  I put in an order for a set of 1 7/8" Spoolin premium collector headers, and they should be done soon.

I've been focusing a lot of time studying as my promotion test is at the end of March.  Once that is out of the way, I will be able to get balls deep in this project. 
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: FC3S Murray on January 30, 2014, 11:50:23 AM
What promotion test are you taking? (If you are AF, Course 15 by chance  :yay: )
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: ls3_rob on January 30, 2014, 12:31:06 PM
I like pictures and I dont see very many pictures

 :P
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: jessethedrifter on January 31, 2014, 11:50:47 PM
I've been focusing a lot of time studying as my promotion test is at the end of March.  Once that is out of the way, I will be able to get balls deep in this project. 

Good luck bro!

What promotion test are you taking? (If you are AF, Course 15 by chance  :yay: )

If it is then there should be no excuse for a SNCO to not be dumping his money into his FD  :D
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: jayv64 on February 01, 2014, 12:01:59 AM
Good luck on your advancement exam. I took my last one in 2010, thankfully in the Navy we stop taking tests once we make it to the Chief level. I dreaded studying for those things
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: XLR8 on February 04, 2014, 08:47:01 PM
Thank's guys!  Yes, my promotion exam is for Air Force E6 (WAPS test).  We only test once a year and I am due.  I SHOULD have had it last year.  I scored very well, but the promotion rates dropped drastically.  Congress plays with the numbers so you never know how it's going to go.  Either way, I am in it to win it this year and have been studying my ass off.  I do a little research here and there, but I haven't really touched the car much.  Once I get this out of the way, it's on.   :drive:


Pictures coming soon.  Trust me, I like them too.  The DSLR is standing by.

Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: FC3S Murray on February 05, 2014, 09:08:27 PM
Man, Active Duty is so much more different than the ANG.  I put on E6 back in 2010 and I didn't take any test, just was eligible based on the usual criteria. :-[
I just finished up and passed my Course 15 and let me tell you, that involved some major studying. I should have went to the academy instead of just requesting the study material...took me 2 weeks of non-stop studying for the Set A books and another 3.5 weeks for Set B.

Anyway, best of luck man and I hope you snatch up Tech.

Better be some dang good updates after you pass it :cheers:
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: jessethedrifter on March 08, 2014, 02:47:04 AM
good news i hope  :)
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: XLR8 on April 06, 2014, 02:58:11 PM
Just a quick update:

First, testing went well!  I should know results early June.  It's nice to not have to study.

As of now, I am STILL waiting on my built engine.  The builder is taking WAY longer than originally stated and things are moving from happy to slightly grey.  Considering I have already paid in full for the engine, and moved 1,000 miles away, it has got me on edge.  Nonetheless, without getting into too much detail and going over every angle of the "engine issue" I am still hopeful that everything will turn out good.  Nonetheless, it is going to halt the build until the engine arrives.

I have all the money together to order my Magnum T56 from Mark, and plan to do so.  However, until the engine arrives and I know I will move forward with the LS7, I am holding off.  As much as I hate to say it, I may need that money to fight a legal battle if things get ugly.  I highly doubt that will happen, but I am not buying any more parts until the engine I paid for arrives.

I am in Halfspec's recent group buy for A/C lines, and I am researching a few other small things to continue to compile my list.  I picked up a clean Cobra rear with 40k miles and a nice set of stock inner snubs.  I will be sending my FD outers and the Cobra inners to DSS for them to assemble.  From there, there isn't much to order to actually get the drivetrain in the car.   

Again, pics of all the cool parts and REAL updates will come when the engine arrives and I am more motivated about the build.  Still very excited, but I am not liking this engine situation.  Until my engine arrives, everything is kind of on hold.

Thanks
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: Ruler_Mark on May 01, 2014, 06:41:14 PM
cd009s take a very good beating. you might want to take a look at this: http://collinsadapters.com/index.php/adaption-kits/lsx-to-350z-370z-vq-transmission-adapter-plate.html (http://collinsadapters.com/index.php/adaption-kits/lsx-to-350z-370z-vq-transmission-adapter-plate.html)

could save you a few $$s
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: XLR8 on May 01, 2014, 10:28:32 PM
This is pretty cool.  Thanks for the link.  I guess the only downside would be making a custom mount for the tranny, and having a driveshaft made.
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: 1point3liter on May 02, 2014, 08:58:35 AM

Thats pretty slick.  I suspect it may not work with a twin disk clutch, but thats probably not a big deal for most people.

What's the advantage other than the Z guys already having one and not needing to buy a gear box. How strong are they?
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: Ruler_Mark on May 02, 2014, 11:24:21 AM

Thats pretty slick.  I suspect it may not work with a twin disk clutch, but thats probably not a big deal for most people.

What's the advantage other than the Z guys already having one and not needing to buy a gear box. How strong are they?

Brett collins(the maker) is using a twin disk in his 240 ls1 driftcar... There are some drag teams that ran the same gearbox all season on 1200hp no issues. When you can get a good working unit for 500-600(atleast down here) then 500$ in that swap kit, spend 2k on a really good clutch you arent that far in the hole.
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: XLR8 on May 02, 2014, 08:21:51 PM
Pretty impressive.  Seams like it would handle my setup all day.  Even a stiff disk would probably be fine, as I don't plan to launch hard or drag.  I would like to see how the shifter lines up and a mounting solution comes together.  Do you know of anyone using this in an FD yet?
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: Ruler_Mark on May 03, 2014, 04:49:53 PM
Pretty impressive.  Seams like it would handle my setup all day.  Even a stiff disk would probably be fine, as I don't plan to launch hard or drag.  I would like to see how the shifter lines up and a mounting solution comes together.  Do you know of anyone using this in an FD yet?

swap kit was just released. his kit shortens the overall length, i know they are longer than the t56s. If this was available last year i'd have gone it in my car.
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: fdrx7 on May 03, 2014, 08:36:42 PM
The 370Z looks like an interesting option. Although the gear ratio for first is pretty steep.

370z Transmission
Type   6-speed manual
Transmission Gear Ratios   
1st   3.794
2nd   2.324
3rd   1.624
4th   1.271
5th   1.000
6th   0.794
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: zbrown on May 03, 2014, 09:41:00 PM
fixed with  the right rear gear
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: Ruler_Mark on May 03, 2014, 10:35:07 PM
a 3.08 would tear that shit up
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: XLR8 on May 05, 2014, 01:44:35 PM
fixed with  the right rear gear

Agreed.
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: XLR8 on May 05, 2014, 01:46:28 PM
Thanks for this info!  I will keep this on my radar.  I haven't pulled the trigger on the T56 Magnum just yet, as I am still waiting for my engine to arrive.  But things are looking good.  I may wait to see how this develops.  I may give Collins a call and ask a few questions.
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: sunshine on May 07, 2014, 02:44:28 PM
I skimmed through your tread real quick and didnt see you mention it but, do you think your hood is going to clear with the new motor?
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: quinns on May 07, 2014, 04:57:09 PM
(http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/attachments/sports-bar/29676d1343478806-olympics-2012-201250d1224730070-fuse-diagram-thread-useless-without-pictures.jpg)

We're waiting  :D :D :D
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: ls3_rob on May 07, 2014, 06:22:49 PM
seriously  :(

(http://makeameme.org/media/created/Still-waiting.jpg)
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: XLR8 on May 07, 2014, 11:08:34 PM
I skimmed through your tread real quick and didnt see you mention it but, do you think your hood is going to clear with the new motor?

I am hopeful....  Gnx7 has the same hood with a different intake pipe setup.  I was going to ask him if he did any chopping.  I love my hood but if push comes to shove it will get swapped.
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: XLR8 on May 07, 2014, 11:24:35 PM
LOL.... You are telling me! 

I am driving back from vacation tomorrow and plan to get started this weekend.  With anticipation growing I am ready to start digging in on what I can.   

I will get some pics up for you gents! 
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: atli126 on May 08, 2014, 05:36:43 AM
Can't wait for this one! :-)
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: XLR8 on May 11, 2014, 10:51:06 PM
UPDATE

Well, with everything starting to slowly come together I figured I better get to work.  I am still saving for a large chunk of parts that need purchasing, but I'm not really too far off.  After all, once the engine arrives, I want to work on getting it in, instead of all the things I should have had done already.

I got the car up on 6 stands and stabilized really well.  It was a little tricky getting it up where it felt really secure, and I felt comfortable yanking on stuff underneath.  I wanted to be able to drop either front or rear subframes without having to move things around. 


Go time!....
(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/DSC00941_zps931963f8.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/DSC00941_zps931963f8.jpg.html)
(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/DSC00936_zps2e9b172c.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/DSC00936_zps2e9b172c.jpg.html)


Cobra IRS 8.8
As I have mentioned I decided on the Cobra 8.8 for two main reasons, strength and gearing.  As many of you helped sway me, I really think it was the best choice.  I am sticking with the factory 3.55 gearing and OEM LSD.  For my needs, I think it will work well.  I purchased a 04 differential with 39k on it.  After inspection, everything looked in order.  I cleaned it inside and out thoroughly in preparation for its final home.

I installed new axle seals.  Though the originals looked fine, I figured it couldn't hurt, and they are pretty cheap.  I picked up a modified cover, and installed it on there as well.  I had a few folks say that I should paint the diff, but I don't plan to.  I like the raw aluminum look.  In any case, it's cleaned up and ready to go in.

I painted the Samberg 8.8 cradle with Dupicolor 500 deg engine primer, and paint.  I have always had great luck with this paint.  It's pretty darn tough and I think it turned out well.  Should I have went powdercoat, maybe.  But I think it will look great for a long time....
I ordered the Energy Suspension bushings for the front ears, and they will be here this week.  This is the only thing I am missing to "physically" mount up the diff and cradle.  However, I need to rework my fuel system and get my axles together before it goes in.


(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/DSC00937_zps7c8900d6.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/DSC00937_zps7c8900d6.jpg.html)
(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/DSC00943_zpsf7cb60f1.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/DSC00943_zpsf7cb60f1.jpg.html)
(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/DSC00944_zpse8b07a08.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/DSC00944_zpse8b07a08.jpg.html)
(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/DSC00947_zps3b324001.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/DSC00947_zps3b324001.jpg.html)


Out with the old!
Well, the factory stuff is out, and the new stuff is going in!!  Next update will include my very minimal fuel system upgrade and getting everything mounted up.  Since I already have a solid pump and good wiring I really just need to get the Corvette filter/regulator mounted up.  Nothing fancy.  Just some OEM style lines likely in the OEM filter location.  My current configuration supported 540whp rotary, so I don't see a need to get too crazy.

I am disassembling my axles now.  Still deciding if I'm going to have Drive Shaft Shop assemble the new ones, or to just do it myself.  Gnx7 advised me to have them do it, but we will see.  I got a good set of Cobra inner snubs and my outers are in good shape.

I purchased a 1" socket set from Tractor Supply during an outing with my wife.  I have been needing a large set for awhile and saw this one on sale.  It has worked great for popping axle nuts and using the large sockets for the press.  Overall a handy set that I definitely needed.

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/DSC00950_zps429ba088.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/DSC00950_zps429ba088.jpg.html)
(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/DSC00935_zps6733c205.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/DSC00935_zps6733c205.jpg.html)
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: largeorangefont on May 11, 2014, 11:33:45 PM
Neat that WV allows 8 digits on their license plates.

Nice work so far.
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: AKINA FC on May 11, 2014, 11:52:44 PM
Awesome! Nice to see you moving forward.
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: fdrx7 on May 12, 2014, 09:41:37 PM
Awesome build! I am also gathering parts for ms LS7 FD and was curious as to your preference of the Samberg vs Ronin 8.8 setup. I haven't decided on which one yet and figured I would pick your brain. Thanks Jon
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: XLR8 on May 12, 2014, 11:30:18 PM
Awesome build! I am also gathering parts for ms LS7 FD and was curious as to your preference of the Samberg vs Ronin 8.8 setup. I haven't decided on which one yet and figured I would pick your brain. Thanks Jon

Thanks!  Great to hear about more LS7 builds.  Such a good combination!  Though I can only speculate at this point.  The power and torque of my LS7 should be putting a permagrin on my face for many years.

I chose the Samberg kit for a few reasons.

1.  I have a 94 car, so the Samberg kit literally just bolts in.  The 93 cars do require welding on a set of mount ears to the subframe, but the 94-95 subframes does not need this.  The Ronnin kit requires a bit more welding obviously.  It's not that I am affraid of welding, its just less work. 

2.  I feel the Samberg kit strength is inferior to the Ronnin kit.  The Ronnin kit mounting points are larger and its easy to see it would be a tad stiffer.  But, for my needs, the Samberg kit is fine.  Many folks launch the shit out of their setups and it keeps smiling.  The added strength of the Ronnin was a moot point.

3.  Cost is virtually the same.  Sure, Ronnin's kit is more complete, but all you need is the Energy Suspension bushings and a set of DSS axles and the Samberg kit is ready to go.  Furthermore, if I wanted DSS's top line axles, the bars that come with the Ronnin kit would be useless.  As far as the Explorer diff vs the Cobra, I got a decent deal on a low mileage Cobra.  I also think the stock Cobra 3.55 gearing will be perfect for my street setup.

4.  Everything else is Samberg....so why not.
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: Mik3ymomo on May 13, 2014, 10:50:00 PM
Glad to see you are getting it ready. They are paving ATCO this week. Naturally now that my car needs to be track tested again!
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: fdrx7 on May 13, 2014, 11:18:50 PM
Thanks for the info. ;)
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: XLR8 on May 14, 2014, 12:12:02 AM
Mike, I expect good numbers!
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: V8-rx7 on May 15, 2014, 01:44:54 AM
I love your car, I followed your build on the Rx7club when it was still rotary. Cant wait to see it all done with the ls7, looks like your off to a great start.
Also with the Ronin kit you have better exhaust clearance, with the Samberg kit you love some exhaust clearance because of the bars going to the back of the subframe.
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: XLR8 on May 15, 2014, 10:06:08 AM
Thanks!  This car has definitely been a journey.  I have always tried to have a cut  throat approach to the car and to try new things.  I feel like the LS7 and drivetrain I have planned will be practical insanity.  Simple, but highly effective.

Correct!   The Ronnin kit definitely has that going for it as well.  I actually had a Greddy Race exhaust that I sold from the previous setup.  In any case, I will be building a custom exhaust this time around.  Still researching and deciding what parts to use. 

More pics coming soon!  I have quite a few parts on their way.  My Magnum T56 is officially ordered!! 

Diff will go in this weekend and tank side fuel should get squared away.
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: digital_hoon on May 15, 2014, 01:56:47 PM
More pics coming soon!  I have quite a few parts on their way.  My Magnum T56 is officially ordered!! 

Diff will go in this weekend and tank side fuel should get squared away.

Glad to hear, yet very jealous!

Impatiently waiting for pics....haha
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: XLR8 on May 15, 2014, 06:48:16 PM
A/C Round 1 8) 8) 8)

As I mentioned initially I will be running A/C.  Naturally I hopped on Halfspec's A/C line group buy.  The kit arrived today and everything looks so awesome.  During the last rotary revision, I reworked my evaporator and put in a new valve.   Everything should be set to rock.  I am using LS1 accessories so that part should be straight forward.  I do still plan to use the Holley HP EFI so we will see if I can get it to trigger things properly. 

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/DSC00956_zps74169eec.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/DSC00956_zps74169eec.jpg.html)
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: XLR8 on May 15, 2014, 09:22:58 PM
My Hinson modified Wilwood master cylinder came in today as well.  I will get it mounted but making the -4 line will wait until I get the engine and tranny in.  I need to order the slave fitting as well.


(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/DSC00957_zpse9657984.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/DSC00957_zpse9657984.jpg.html)
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: XLR8 on May 16, 2014, 08:20:58 AM
I had a quick question for you veterans.   After a bit of research and going back on forth on what accessories to use, I think I settled on Fbody LS1.  My LS7 is built with a shorter snout 24x crank so there is no issue there.   I was originally planning for one of the GMPP kits but I don't want PS.  It seems that piecing together a new Fbody kit would be cheaper and pretty easy.  I did a little research and found this belt configuration on Ls1tech.  Folks seem to be having success with it but wanted to get some opinions over here.  I do plan to de-power my rack.  I have loved the looped line and read that a depowered rack is even better.  I have driven the car with no  PS since I owned it and I really do prefer that configuration.

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/LS1PSDeleteBeltRouting_zps0vi3k7xp.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/LS1PSDeleteBeltRouting_zps0vi3k7xp.jpg.html)
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: largeorangefont on May 16, 2014, 11:11:00 AM
That is the belt configuration I run, but I use a 25% under drive pulley, and the larger 76mm idler (dayco #38009 or gates #38009). You may have to do some minor clearancing on the alternator bracket to get the mounting bolts away from the belt. With the under drive pulley you need to do more clearancing than you would with a stock sized pulley.

I made a spacer and stepped bushing for my idler pulley instead of using washers.

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a386/largeorangefont/F48613A9-0184-4213-9FD1-6C9389C884D4-5143-000004668FE35442_zps3599bdd5.jpg)
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a386/largeorangefont/4222B302-116F-4FB5-8289-003C729BF335-5143-000004669FFF3D40_zps59ea7964.jpg)
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: digitalsolo on May 16, 2014, 11:14:25 AM
I've used an allen head bolt with a washer for that bottom bolt (button head) to get more clearance, FWIW.   Just a few bucks for a stainless one from McMaster.
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: atli126 on May 16, 2014, 03:51:20 PM
awesome!!! :drive:
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: XLR8 on May 16, 2014, 09:04:13 PM
Thanks for the input guys! 
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: XLR8 on May 16, 2014, 11:22:23 PM
Since I am on a picture role, I might as well post up my headers.  I sprung for a set of Spoolin premium merge 1 7/8" headers awhile back.  They look fantastic!  Now just to figure out what to do for the rest of it.....

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/20140215_104208_zpsbujikjge.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/20140215_104208_zpsbujikjge.jpg.html)



Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: XLR8 on May 16, 2014, 11:32:37 PM
A few months ago I picked up a new daily driver.  Honestly, it absorbed some of my FD project money.  At first I was pretty apprehensive to that fact, but I am glad I did it.  I have to say that my Miata is the funnest "not serious" car I have ever owned.  Handles like a champ, decent power, and an overall awesome daily driver.  It has really kept me sane as I work on the FD again.  I was driving a little Ford Ranger to work everyday, and it was getting frustrating.  I guess it wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't a 30 minute drive down some nice twisty roads.  I figured it was time to upgrade.


I am a little snug at 6'1" 220lbs, but not terrible.  It's a 2002 with 80k miles and in really good condition.  Who knows, I may decide it needs an L33 one day.
:D


(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/20140411_191728_zpsyb8cipso.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/20140411_191728_zpsyb8cipso.jpg.html)
(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/20140217_003959_zpsilwe1odx.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/20140217_003959_zpsilwe1odx.jpg.html)
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: AKINA FC on May 16, 2014, 11:41:35 PM
Nice score, those are fun little cars!
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: atli126 on May 17, 2014, 05:32:54 AM
Sweet. I'm going l33/cam/ls6 (370ish) this summer. :-) should be a nice upgrade from my 280/295 Lm7.

Sweet miata. I loved mine when I had it :-)
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: XLR8 on May 18, 2014, 12:29:49 PM
UPDATE


I installed a WIX filter/fpr from a Vette and pretty much wrapped up the fuel system on the tank side.  As I mentioned before, I didn't have a whole lot to do.  I decided this route because it was pretty easy and simple.  Apparently that fpr has been proven to my power goals, and supposedly 800whp.  If I was running E85 or making more power, I would definitely rework the entire system.  But for now, I think this will do the trick.  There was a write-up on here that I got alot of the basic info from.  I moved the filter to the passenger side more, so it should be relatively easy to reach up and replace.  I will be logging fuel pressure on the backside of my fuel rail as well.  I am going to replace the 3 lines that go from the hanger to the hard line above the tank with fresh rubber.  Ironically the Mazda lines are all still in great shape with no cracks and still very pliable, but as I decided to replace them anyway.

YES, I agree its still a little dirty under there.  I started scrubbing with rags and degreaser and realized I was wasting my time.  I am a stickler for cleanliness, so I swallowed my pride, and kept working.  I am going after a pressure washer today, and plan to blast the entire underbody.  I was meaning to do it before I got started

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/DSC00953_zpsc65a371e.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/DSC00953_zpsc65a371e.jpg.html)
(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20140517_142453_zpsmyqpdcjl.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20140517_142453_zpsmyqpdcjl.jpg.html)


The Cobra 8.8 is all mounted up.  The Samberg kit was made very well and fit perfectly.  1point3liter sold me the cover that he modified and it also fit well.  Cheers bro! :cheers:   I also spent about 2 hours beating the living piss out of my stock axles to get the outer CV off.  In the end, I won.  My Drive Shaft Shop axle kit should be here soon and I can get them assembled to start putting the rear suspension all back together. 

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20140517_154951_zps8ah0piub.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20140517_154951_zps8ah0piub.jpg.html)
(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20140518_110955_zpswir2ivtf.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20140518_110955_zpswir2ivtf.jpg.html)

From here, my list is starting to get a little thin.  I will go ahead and mount up my Wilwood clutch master and give it the usual paint.  My bay also really needs cleaned as it hasn't been touched since I towed the car to MS.  I may repaint the lower rails with black since it's been a few years.  I'm not completely sure if I will trim the rear firewall lip or not.  If I can get away without doing it, I just may leave it since my bay is already painted and fancy.  I do have some wiring to clean up from the last setup as well.  I plan to pressure test my heater core.  During my last rotary revision, I couldn't get the pipe on the firewall to stop leaking.  I'm pretty sure I tweaked the line like a dumby and cracked the metal.  I'm not 100% sure so now that I have easy access, I will test it to see if I am in for a dash pull....yay
:yay: .


Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: ls3_rob on May 19, 2014, 10:56:33 AM
you may want to rethink those plastic push on fuel fittings and go for these:

The plastic ones seem to pop off and leak

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/rus-644123 (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/rus-644123)

Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: AKINA FC on May 19, 2014, 11:50:00 AM
Looks good! Just make sure that the connectors click when you attach them, if there not fully seated they will pop off. I usually lube the o-rings and the end of the tube before installing them so they fully seat.
With the way your building this you should have a nice driver when your all said and done. :cheers:
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: largeorangefont on May 19, 2014, 01:19:16 PM
you may want to rethink those plastic push on fuel fittings and go for these:

The plastic ones seem to pop off and leak

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/rus-644123 (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/rus-644123)



I have not had any issue with my plastic Dorman fuel connectors to date. You do have to make sure they click on and are secure. I know there were problems with the old Russell aluminium clip on connectors popping off (not the ones you linked). Do you know of someone that has had a documented problem with the Dorman plastic connectors?


XLR8,

Congrats on the progress! You will like the Spoolin headers, they are a quality piece!!
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: digitalsolo on May 19, 2014, 01:34:01 PM
I have had no trouble with Dorman ones, they are like OEM pieces.    The Russel non-screw in ones sucked though.    FWIW, I put Russel screw together ones on my car though.   Fire bad.
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: XLR8 on May 19, 2014, 07:01:00 PM
I did a bit of searching on those fittings before I purchased them but couldn't find any negative information.  I saw them used in the write-up and was definitely hesitant.  Plastic anything when it comes to engine components doesn't really give me the warm fuzzy......especially fuel.  My research found that everyone that used them, liked them and had no problems.  Just that you gotta make sure they click.  I did see the newer style Russel fittings, and almost ordered them.  However, with using Pushlock style back there, adding another extension for barb seemed silly if I wasn't going with all AN. 

I will definitely keep my eye on them though.  When I installed them, I gave them a drop of oil on the o-ring and they all clicked into place with ease.  I used OEM style fuel line clamps as well.  Once the engine is here I will be able to pressurize the system, and look everything over as well.

Magnum T56 should be shipping once the check clears!  I talked to Gnx7 today and everything is good.  I think that getting the tranny is really the warm up for my LS7 arriving.  I'm still very excited to see that sexy beast in my garage on pallet.   :bacon: :bacon: :bacon:
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: XLR8 on May 22, 2014, 08:08:05 PM
In my excitement, and confirmation by a gentlemen's agreement, I think I can go ahead and post some pics of my soon to be new exhaust.  I will be getting Kevin Doe's dual 3" from Halfspec.  I want to thank Lane for giving me dibs after I contacted him about it.  Very excited to set this bad boy up on the LS7!! 

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/408_zpslvwljh69.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/408_zpslvwljh69.jpg.html)
(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/409_zpsi7bybq5q.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/409_zpsi7bybq5q.jpg.html)
(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/11693852153_c81d159a73_b_zpsru138azo.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/11693852153_c81d159a73_b_zpsru138azo.jpg.html)
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: cool on May 22, 2014, 10:43:28 PM
I've had those Dorman fittings on my 7 since 08 and haven't had a single issue. I've used them to make repairs on my other personal cars as well as family members cars. No problems.
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: digital_hoon on May 23, 2014, 08:10:55 AM
That exhaust looks to be a nice piece! Maybe you can take some pics of the underbody once its mounted. I may have to steal some ideas from you when I have mine done.  ;)
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: Tomo on May 23, 2014, 10:18:09 AM
Those headers look amazing!  :o  beautiful car. Much jealous.
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: XLR8 on May 23, 2014, 12:25:56 PM
That exhaust looks to be a nice piece! Maybe you can take some pics of the underbody once its mounted. I may have to steal some ideas from you when I have mine done.  ;)

Sure man, whatever you need.  I can take pics and measurements.
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: XLR8 on May 23, 2014, 05:06:38 PM
Slow day today.  I degreased and pressure washed the undercarriage today.  I also spent some time on cleaning up the heat shields.  A few I know I won't use, but they will look nice when I list them on the "other" club.  I will probably tackle the engine bay tomorrow and possibly start de-powering my rack soon.  My small package of Magnum parts arrived today too! :D.....Next week. 

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20140523_152211_zps4rvq82qe.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20140523_152211_zps4rvq82qe.jpg.html)
(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20140523_152308_zpspzk5axny.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20140523_152308_zpspzk5axny.jpg.html)
(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20140523_103807_zpsnz9ntl38.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20140523_103807_zpsnz9ntl38.jpg.html)
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: XLR8 on May 23, 2014, 10:19:08 PM
After finishing up today I pulled out my Samberg v3 radiator kit and snapped a pic.  Looking forward to seeing this in the bay.  I'm still deciding on how I will present it.  Most of the color scheme will be figured out once the engine is in, and I can get a visual.

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20140523_190150_zpsnlpisf2e.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20140523_190150_zpsnlpisf2e.jpg.html)
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: bz7 on June 02, 2014, 08:21:27 PM
Nice progress! Any updates?

How is the Samberg V3 kit different than the V2?
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: XLR8 on June 02, 2014, 08:44:38 PM
The Magnum


Well gents, my Tremec T56 Magnum, Fbody bell housing, and shifter arrived today.  I gotta say that I am pretty ecstatic!  It arrived with the factory Tremec box pretty beat up as UPS once again likes to sling stuff around.  I looked everything over, got some advice from Mark and its all good.

I want to thank GNX7 for helping me.  I ordered through him and couldn't be happier with the service!  Thanks a bunch Mark.

On to the Porrrrnnnnnnn


(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20140602_1859550_zpsl04d5iob.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20140602_1859550_zpsl04d5iob.jpg.html)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20140602_190043_zps2esn5ysw.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20140602_190043_zps2esn5ysw.jpg.html)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20140602_190245_zpsowv0w9rc.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20140602_190245_zpsowv0w9rc.jpg.html)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20140602_190200_zpsmbnkghim.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20140602_190200_zpsmbnkghim.jpg.html)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20140602_190219_zpswnv4uoby.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20140602_190219_zpswnv4uoby.jpg.html)


Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: halfspec on June 02, 2014, 09:58:39 PM
(http://www.partyvibe.org/forums/attachments/lsd/81386-your-best-acid-southpark_nice.png)

Lane
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: mefarri on June 02, 2014, 10:47:24 PM
/\ lololol
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: jessethedrifter on June 03, 2014, 03:32:37 AM
sweet! glad to see you getting back on it bro! look forward to seeing more progress  :cheers:
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: AKINA FC on June 03, 2014, 12:02:39 PM
Awesome trans! When is the engine to arrive? :cheers:
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: XLR8 on June 04, 2014, 08:09:24 PM
Nice progress! Any updates?

How is the Samberg V3 kit different than the V2?

I may have misspoke on that one.  It may be V2.  In any case, it is the most recent design with the hood fix implemented.  The top shrowd now slided for adjustment.
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: XLR8 on June 04, 2014, 08:27:08 PM
Ah, the engine.....my illlusive LS7.  As I have posted before, my builder has been very slow.  He seems to be an honest dude that is very busy and trying to stay afloat with life.  He is experienced and worked at East Coast SC.  He now has his own business but builds engines on the side. As you saw from the original engine link, the block was a smokin deal and visually everything was top notch.  I looked everything over, and we chatted for about 3 hours at his home.  However, my engine should have been delivered long ago. 

He notified me last month that he found an issue with the block.  Essentially the pistons weren't protruding evenly.   As a sanity check he took everything to his machine shop.  Sure enough, the block needed to be decked.  He explained it was that way from the factory as its a new block.  Fine for stock setup, not so fine with bigger cam and lower heads.  Well, like all quality machine shops, they are slow.  He is picking it up tomorrow and proceeding with assembly.  My hopes are to have it soon but we will see.  He knows I haven't been happy considering the original deal was for him to have it ready in January. 

Nonetheless,  I have been patient and letting it go until all hope is lost.  If it comes to that point, I will pull the plug and request a refund.  I haven't really needed the engine just yet, but I am getting close.  With my Samberg order complete, I will soon have everything to drop the drivetrain in the car.  I have many friends that still live in the NJ area so I am not too worried about getting "ripped off".  If it gets to that point, my usual laid back demeanor will wave goodbye.

Beleive me, when that sucker arrives, this site will be the first to know. ;-)

Things will work out.  The Big Guy is on my side.
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: quinns on June 04, 2014, 10:49:29 PM
Sounds like a builder I hired one time. After hearing horror stories of people never getting their engines I was glad I held out and received a motor that was done right.
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: XLR8 on June 06, 2014, 12:14:09 PM
It's pretty frustrating to say the least.  Really, this is why I wanted to buy a crate engine.  You pay more, but I just click the button on Jegs and its all good.  I feel that it will work out, and I'm not going to let it take the wind from my sails. 
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: XLR8 on June 08, 2014, 10:24:36 PM
I got a few things done this weekend.  It has really been heating up down here so it slows me down a bit.  I haven't got my garage A/C setup yet, but I am working on it.  I will be adding 4x4 banks of florescent lighting, foam insulating my garage doors, and a 15,000 btu A/C unit.  It's hard to do quality work when I am soaked in sweat all day....lol

I lined the tranny tunnel with Thermatec heat material.  It's good stuff, easy to work with and does a good job. 

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20140606_150644_zps0yuk2bik.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20140606_150644_zps0yuk2bik.jpg.html)
(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20140608_132012_zpsbc4p32mh.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20140608_132012_zpsbc4p32mh.jpg.html)

I got my Wilwood master cylinder mounted up as well.  I had to manipulate my custom brake line configuration in that corner a little bit, but it was pretty straight forward.  I may have to rebleed the brakes as I had to crack a few fittings open.  No biggy though. 


(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20140608_161628_zpsj9r9cdr6.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20140608_161628_zpsj9r9cdr6.jpg.html)

I de-powered my rack.  I went back and fourth on whether to keep power steering.  I finally decided I would press with the depowered rack.  I have been driving the car with looped lines for 4 years and really do like the feel.  I have heard that a proper de-powered rack is even better.  We shall see.

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20140607_100850_zpskfirthpl.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20140607_100850_zpskfirthpl.jpg.html)
(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20140608_163553_zpssps5hakl.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20140608_163553_zpssps5hakl.jpg.html)

I bought a 5" stick with GTO threads on ebay.  Clearanced the holes a little and it bolts right to my fancy shifter.  Now I have to find me a cool shift knob.  ;)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20140608_130908_zpskhuw2owm.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20140608_130908_zpskhuw2owm.jpg.html)

Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: Mik3ymomo on June 10, 2014, 07:12:42 AM
I might as well get started with the suggestions
(http://i657.photobucket.com/albums/uu297/eemann1mmckin/85%20model/newknob1.jpg)
(http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/339225.jpg)
(http://img.dxcdn.com/productimages/sku_140901_1.jpg)
(http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/attachments/2nd-gen-tacomas/108754d1311093277-cool-shift-knobs-baseball-knob.jpg)
(http://tmaxxpowerpipes.tripod.com/DSC_0016ab.JPG)
(http://i00.i.aliimg.com/wsphoto/v0/641207842_1/COOL-Darth-Vader-Head-Shaped-Gear-Shift-Knob-for-Manual-Cars-3-Colors.jpg)
(http://www.buellxb.com/buell_images/4005_20100430125122_L.jpg)
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: jeffp5 on June 10, 2014, 09:57:31 AM
what year gto shifter? I have an 04 gto transmission, and my knob is not a thread on, it is a push on.

im using the stock knob, and the stock gto boot. i love it.

(http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd7/jpatrone/RX7%20build/2013-05-19174640_zps097cafd0.jpg) (http://s226.photobucket.com/user/jpatrone/media/RX7%20build/2013-05-19174640_zps097cafd0.jpg.html)
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: XLR8 on June 11, 2014, 10:35:22 PM
It said 04-06 GTO.  Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if it was bogus.  In any case,  with M16 x 1.5mm threads, I should be able to find a nice knob. 

I saw a factory GTO setup.  It looks like it would bolt on but good gravy was it expensive. 

I like the grenade....lol
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: Sho Amo on June 12, 2014, 01:24:05 PM
Cant go wrong with the 03 cobra t56 knob.
 :drive:

Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: halfspec on June 12, 2014, 02:07:57 PM
http://shop.moddiction.com/Shift-knobs-and-shifters_c2.htm (http://shop.moddiction.com/Shift-knobs-and-shifters_c2.htm)

I like my moddiction anvil 2

(http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2873/11694324136_be41bfaa56_b.jpg)

Lane
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: GEAUX FAST on June 12, 2014, 03:05:17 PM
That rap came out so clean in your car. Every time I see it I do a double take..
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: XLR8 on June 12, 2014, 09:03:40 PM
Thanks Lane!  I really like that one!  I found one that Mike sent me as well, it's similar.  I really like my Miata shifter and both of those are close to that.  Small and slender.  I'm not a big fan of the ball knobs or a knob that is large. 

Ordering this one!
http://shop.moddiction.com/Moddiction-Anvil-2-Stainless-Steel-Shift-Knob-019.htm (http://shop.moddiction.com/Moddiction-Anvil-2-Stainless-Steel-Shift-Knob-019.htm)

Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: digitalsolo on June 12, 2014, 09:21:24 PM
I want one of those but cannot justify spending 75 bucks on a shift knob!    Maybe someday when I'm rich.  :)
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: Mik3ymomo on June 12, 2014, 09:27:56 PM
I want one of those but cannot justify spending 75 bucks on a shift knob!    Maybe someday when I'm rich.  :)

Engrave a Norotors buster on the top of that thing and call it site advertising.
Problem solved. Plus you just got a raise.  :cheers:
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: halfspec on June 12, 2014, 09:29:12 PM
I want one of those but cannot justify spending 75 bucks on a shift knob!    Maybe someday when I'm rich.  :)

I agree. Definitely steep, but the way I think of it is that I'm getting 50% discount on similarly spec'd twm performance knob. Twm is what's a ripoff in my opinion ;)

Lane
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: XLR8 on June 15, 2014, 12:41:33 PM
I received my DSS axle kit at got them put together this weekend.  As others have said, it was kind of a PITA.  However, I got it done.  Its definitely one of those jobs that would probably take about 1/3 as long the second time around...LOL.  I was going to take more pics along the way but as most of you know, it's a greasey sweaty job. 

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20140614_142737_zpsk1z5svac.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20140614_142737_zpsk1z5svac.jpg.html)
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: XLR8 on June 20, 2014, 09:56:52 PM
Cobra 8.8

The differential and subframe are finally assembled.  I had to wait on a snap ring to come in.  One of my inners was missing its snap ring and I definitely didn't want to install it without it.  I scoured and searched until I found one.  I also took the time to paint the bare metal on my axles, since they will just get rusty again.  I ordered 2 quarts of Royal Purple 75w 140 and 4 oz of Ford Friction Modifier.  I decided to go all Royal Purple this time around so we will see how it does.  I have to admit, I am pretty proud to see the rear come together.  One portion of the car is finally complete.  Now lets get these other piggies wiggling.

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20140620_111608_zps34qowssb.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20140620_111608_zps34qowssb.jpg.html)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20140620_122246_zpso1hwhizm.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20140620_122246_zpso1hwhizm.jpg.html)

The Knob

Well, I decided on a Cobra knob.  It looked like it would match and it has a leather wrapped OEM feel to it, which I like.  If it starts to feel too bulky, it will likely get swapped for the one Lane posted up earlier.  I still really like that one...lol.  I think the Cobra knob should match the interior well.  I also had to order a different shifter rod considering the threads are different.  Good old Ebay strikes again. :D

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20140616_173959_zpsnzyqxxvp.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20140616_173959_zpsnzyqxxvp.jpg.html)

In my down time I decided to give my slotted rotors some love.  They were slowly corroding on the hub portion so I decided to give them a shot of ceramic paint.  I'm actually surprised they looked as good  as they did for so long.  The rears are mounted up and the fronts are still hanging out until my subframe comes in and I can assemble.  I will torque and paint the axle nuts once I can drop the rear.

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20140614_171515_zpsluajetzl.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20140614_171515_zpsluajetzl.jpg.html)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20140616_182157_zpsjjhu5vvy.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20140616_182157_zpsjjhu5vvy.jpg.html)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20140620_135214_zpskzmhuyry.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20140620_135214_zpskzmhuyry.jpg.html)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20140620_135154_zpspmvxw0nu.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20140620_135154_zpspmvxw0nu.jpg.html)
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: Sho Amo on June 23, 2014, 03:30:52 PM
YAY I win!! :D
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: XLR8 on August 04, 2014, 03:02:53 PM
My Samber kit and DSS drive shaft has finally arrived.  Engine should be close behind...
(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20140801_125326_zps0ublpgdz.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20140801_125326_zps0ublpgdz.jpg.html)
(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20140719_161203_zpscrz65mhn.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20140719_161203_zpscrz65mhn.jpg.html)
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: halfspec on August 05, 2014, 11:17:20 AM
Looking good Josh. Can't wait to see your engine arrive safely in your hands. Getting excited over the possibility of a small meet up with our mutual friend :)

Lane
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: 1point3liter on August 05, 2014, 11:26:49 PM
Cobra 8.8

The differential and subframe are finally assembled.  I had to wait on a snap ring to come in.  One of my inners was missing its snap ring and I definitely didn't want to install it without it.  I scoured and searched until I found one.  I also took the time to paint the bare metal on my axles, since they will just get rusty again.  I ordered 2 quarts of Royal Purple 75w 140 and 4 oz of Ford Friction Modifier.  I decided to go all Royal Purple this time around so we will see how it does.  I have to admit, I am pretty proud to see the rear come together.  One portion of the car is finally complete.  Now lets get these other piggies wiggling.

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20140620_111608_zps34qowssb.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20140620_111608_zps34qowssb.jpg.html)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20140620_122246_zpso1hwhizm.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20140620_122246_zpso1hwhizm.jpg.html)

The Knob

Well, I decided on a Cobra knob.  It looked like it would match and it has a leather wrapped OEM feel to it, which I like.  If it starts to feel too bulky, it will likely get swapped for the one Lane posted up earlier.  I still really like that one...lol.  I think the Cobra knob should match the interior well.  I also had to order a different shifter rod considering the threads are different.  Good old Ebay strikes again. :D

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20140616_173959_zpsnzyqxxvp.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20140616_173959_zpsnzyqxxvp.jpg.html)

In my down time I decided to give my slotted rotors some love.  They were slowly corroding on the hub portion so I decided to give them a shot of ceramic paint.  I'm actually surprised they looked as good  as they did for so long.  The rears are mounted up and the fronts are still hanging out until my subframe comes in and I can assemble.  I will torque and paint the axle nuts once I can drop the rear.

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20140614_171515_zpsluajetzl.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20140614_171515_zpsluajetzl.jpg.html)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20140616_182157_zpsjjhu5vvy.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20140616_182157_zpsjjhu5vvy.jpg.html)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20140620_135214_zpskzmhuyry.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20140620_135214_zpskzmhuyry.jpg.html)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20140620_135154_zpspmvxw0nu.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20140620_135154_zpspmvxw0nu.jpg.html)

sweet diff cover :D
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: 1point3liter on August 05, 2014, 11:31:03 PM
That thermatec heat barrier looks good. I've thought about doing the same thing on my car.
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: XLR8 on August 08, 2014, 10:15:17 AM
Thanks guy.  Yeah, the Thermatec stuff turned out good.  I have always had good luck with it.

Lane, I am really looking forward to getting this thing wrapped up as well.  Our little rendezvous is going to be epic!
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: XLR8 on August 15, 2014, 01:20:49 PM
Engine is suppose to ship next week....  Any bidders??


I have also given him a deadline of September 1st.  If the engine does not arrive by then, I am getting a refund and moving on.  I think 8 months after the proposed deadline is more than patient.
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: halfspec on August 15, 2014, 02:32:02 PM
Good luck Josh. 8 months is definitely more than fair. Reminds me of giving my 1st painters 7+ months to do my car.

Hopefully your deal goes better than mine did and your builder steps up his game and delivers.

Lane
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: XLR8 on August 23, 2014, 10:11:11 PM
Last weak of August.  He says it will ship this week.  We will see.  Certified letter requesting a refund and lawyer on standby.
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: 1point3liter on August 24, 2014, 10:05:53 AM
so frustrating
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: XLR8 on August 24, 2014, 08:48:16 PM
Yeah dude.  I am....annoyed.
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: XLR8 on August 29, 2014, 11:31:22 AM
UPDATE

Well folks, the LS7 is no more.  After finding out the engine would not ship this week, and the builder running into even more problems, he offered me a full refund and I accepted without hesitation. 

I have been going back and forth on my options and I feel like I need a sure thing.  So I will likely order a LS3 480hp crate engine from Jegs.  That will also give me enough money left over to completely finish the build.  No more saving, and waiting.  It will still be a blast, and plenty fast for what I actually will do with the car.  If I want to get wild later, I will supercharge the damn thing.
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: cool on August 29, 2014, 11:36:44 AM
Sucks about the LS7 but you'll be plenty happy with that LS3. 
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS Build
Post by: FC3S Murray on August 29, 2014, 11:44:19 AM
LS7 is a great engine but what I have read over the years the LS3 is opening the door for so many different modification routes. That engine is tried and true, you will easily be able to get the power you desire. I am excited to see you finish up. That car will no doubt scream & will breathe easy the whole time doing it.
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS Build
Post by: halfspec on August 29, 2014, 12:13:13 PM
Nice choice Josh. Sorry the LS7 didn't work out but I agree with the other guys. The LS3 is going to be an awesome setup :)

Just be careful with your accessory choices relating to your AC compressor. The AC lines I built you are made for a LS1 compressor which would require your run fbody accessories. If you wanted to go with LS3 accessories, I'd recommend going with SS camaro ybody accessories NOT ybody CTSV accessories as the CTSV compressor is still a pain in the ass to connect to. If you went with SS camaro ybody accessories and its compressor, it would require modifications to 2 of your lines. Pretty minimal mods, but it would have to be done.

Let me know when you've settled on a plan and I can help you plan your AC around the changes if you need any help.

Lane
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: Mik3ymomo on August 29, 2014, 01:15:43 PM
UPDATE

I have been going back and forth on my options and I feel like I need a sure thing.  So I will likely order a LS3 480hp crate engine from Jegs.

Shits weak...
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS Build
Post by: XLR8 on August 29, 2014, 01:25:14 PM
^Shut it slave!

Everyone else, thanks for the support.
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS7 Build
Post by: Powaah on August 29, 2014, 01:29:39 PM
UPDATE

Well folks, the LS7 is no more.  After finding out the engine would not ship this week, and the builder running into even more problems, he offered me a full refund and I accepted without hesitation. 

I have been going back and forth on my options and I feel like I need a sure thing.  So I will likely order a LS3 480hp crate engine from Jegs.  That will also give me enough money left over to completely finish the build.  No more saving, and waiting.  It will still be a blast, and plenty fast for what I actually will do with the car.  If I want to get wild later, I will supercharge the damn thing.


Have you thought about starting out with a stroker?  Maybe I'm missing something, but a stroked shortblock from ERL seems like it would give a lot more bang for your buck than a crate motor.

http://www.erlperformance.com/gm-ls-stock-sleeve-short-blocks (http://www.erlperformance.com/gm-ls-stock-sleeve-short-blocks)

Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS Build
Post by: AKINA FC on August 29, 2014, 05:38:00 PM
For what it's worth I have a good friend who has the 525HP ls3 in his camaro and it is very streetable, idles at 850 rpm and has a/c. I would highly recommend it if your wanting a turn key gm engine, it is a stout factory piece and will make the power you want. I am glad to see you finally reach a resolve with that other engine though :cheers:
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS Build
Post by: fdrx7 on August 29, 2014, 09:03:05 PM
Sorry to hear about the LS7 not working out. But thankfully you got your full refund with no further hassles.
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS Build
Post by: karsty on August 30, 2014, 10:34:54 AM
Was really hoping to see another LS7 build.  Such a wicked engine.  LS3 will still be pretty sweet, but I would either buy the 525hp version right off the bat and enjoy that, or buy something built.
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS Build
Post by: largeorangefont on August 30, 2014, 11:43:56 AM
Does the warranty allow modification to the crate engine? I am guessing not but thought I'd ask.

If so the stock LS3 crate engine and a ASA cam will get you the 525 HP for much cheaper.
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS Build
Post by: XLR8 on August 30, 2014, 12:56:53 PM
It does not allow tampering.  I looked at the dyno on the 525 and 480 crates.  The GM Hotcam on the 480 is all about midrange.  It actually makes the most midrange of the aftermarkets below 4500rpm.  Makes for a good street cam compared to all out power up top.

I am looking at a LS3 stroker 427, 418, or even LS2 402.  I am pretty torn.  I had this decision sorted and now it has come back.  I'm not building an engine myself, and I'm not buying a used engine pullout.  I've decided that no matter what I do, I will be buying from a reputable source.  Whether it's a GM crate, our a large shop with a good name and a warranty.  I'm not waiting months and months for an engine to be assembled either.  My patience hasn't necessarily run out, I'm just ready for this project to move forward. 

Ultimately, I could buy any GM Crate engine LS3 and have the money right now to finish the build.  I only have a few things left to buy such as accessories and ECU (have the money for the ECU).  The reason I am so torn is that I don't want to regret not going big.  Supercharging our cars is a pretty big undertaking considering space and overall fabrication.  It's not really what I want from the car.  A LS3 stroker would make the power that I want, but I constantly ask myself will I really be able to use it.  I have a street car with no plans to compete in any way.  I really can't deny that I have always had an uncontrollable urge to make my car an all out badass.  My rotary setup was pretty wild and that is kind of the way I like to do things.  By doing a stock crate, I feel like I am settling somewhat.  At the same time, there is no denying it would still be very quick.

Like all things money plays a big part.  I have been saving my ass off for a year, and things are now coming to a head.... 

As always guys, opinions are very welcome.
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS Build
Post by: zbrown on August 30, 2014, 03:52:59 PM
I would of waited for the ls7 , no comparison
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS Build
Post by: XLR8 on August 30, 2014, 05:06:40 PM
I considered it...  But with a builder that is 9 months past his original delivery date, I think it was the right choice to get my money while I can.  It has really been nothing but excuses with this guy.  He didn't tell me there was a problem with the block until 3 months after it was suppose to be done.  If he had missed something, or I received the engine with an issue, I would once again be dealing with a guy that is slower than all hell and now 1,000 miles away.  The whole deal has been making me nervous with every month of him not delivering.  I'm not a rich guy, and $11,000 is enough to make me sweat.


 
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS Build
Post by: paul_3rdgen on August 30, 2014, 05:27:42 PM
I think you made the right choice..... Get the LS3 crate and call it a day..... How long is the warranty? If you get bored after a year or two throw a head and cam package on it and gain 75rwhp....
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS Build
Post by: XLR8 on August 30, 2014, 07:11:00 PM
The "warranty" is a 2 year/50k mile deal.  I really think I am going to get the crate, get the swap sorted and get it on the road.  When this thing needs freshened up or if I get bored, I will pull it get my hands dirty stroking it myself. ;-)
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS Build
Post by: digital_hoon on August 30, 2014, 08:04:18 PM
Sorry to hear about the LS7, but at least you're not having to take him to court for your refund. Do you happen to know what the latest delay was caused by?

If it could be worked out, I wonder if a partial refund could be paid out while having him ship the motor as-is to another, more reputable builder. That would probably depend on how far he was into the build. I know some builders won't work on others' builds, and I could obviously see you not wanting to even deal with him anymore. Just an idea though.

As far as an LS3 goes, I would say at least put a cam in it. Not that difficult to do with the motor out of the car and great bang for your buck. If you get a brand new LS, you shouldn't need to worry about it blowing unless you're spraying anyhow.
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS Build
Post by: XLR8 on August 30, 2014, 09:25:18 PM
Thanks.  The latest issue was the pan not sealing and the Improved Racing baffle not wanting to fit right.  He gave me the option to ship it without the pan, or even buy a new pan and have him try to get it right.  Again, at this point, my faith in this guy is completely depleted.  He seems like an honest guy and even a competent builder, but his business skills are completely off base.  The entire experience has had me nervous for quite awhile.  I was really trying to hang in there and be polite.  As he took more and more time to complete the engine it was apparent that if there were any further issues I would be on my own.  I could be buying a botched setup in a shiny wrapper.  I am washing my hands of that dude.  I should expect a check in the mail this week.  We talked about a refund a few months ago but he said "he didn't have the money or he would have offered".  This time, he offered and I took it. 

Yes, the LS3 will get a cam. 
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS Build
Post by: Classy on September 02, 2014, 08:14:46 AM
Buy the LS3 crate motor, get it running and on the road.  Enjoy the car for awhile, then either go buck wild with that engine, or buy the engine you want and not pull out the LS3 until you actually have said motor in your possession.   Either way, good luck sir.
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS Build
Post by: AKINA FC on September 02, 2014, 06:38:20 PM
It does not allow tampering.  I looked at the dyno on the 525 and 480 crates.  The GM Hotcam on the 480 is all about midrange.  It actually makes the most midrange of the aftermarkets below 4500rpm.  Makes for a good street cam compared to all out power up top.

I am looking at a LS3 stroker 427, 418, or even LS2 402.  I am pretty torn.  I had this decision sorted and now it has come back.  I'm not building an engine myself, and I'm not buying a used engine pullout.  I've decided that no matter what I do, I will be buying from a reputable source.  Whether it's a GM crate, our a large shop with a good name and a warranty.  I'm not waiting months and months for an engine to be assembled either.  My patience hasn't necessarily run out, I'm just ready for this project to move forward. 

Ultimately, I could buy any GM Crate engine LS3 and have the money right now to finish the build.  I only have a few things left to buy such as accessories and ECU (have the money for the ECU).  The reason I am so torn is that I don't want to regret not going big.  Supercharging our cars is a pretty big undertaking considering space and overall fabrication.  It's not really what I want from the car.  A LS3 stroker would make the power that I want, but I constantly ask myself will I really be able to use it.  I have a street car with no plans to compete in any way.  I really can't deny that I have always had an uncontrollable urge to make my car an all out badass.  My rotary setup was pretty wild and that is kind of the way I like to do things.  By doing a stock crate, I feel like I am settling somewhat.  At the same time, there is no denying it would still be very quick.

Like all things money plays a big part.  I have been saving my ass off for a year, and things are now coming to a head.... 

As always guys, opinions are very welcome.


Well it sounds like you won't be happy unless you get something not out of the box, which I don't blame you. I would call Texas Speed, Vengance Racing or ERL and have them knock out a 427 or 441 and have it at your door in a few weeks. For 11K you could have one badass NA motor built in not to much time, make 550+whp with great street manners and a warranty. Texas Speed has a expiditing option and can have a engine built in a week if they dont already have a short block on the shelf for some extra cash. Just a few thoughts :cheers:
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS Build
Post by: XLR8 on September 25, 2014, 10:03:20 PM
I plan to have a 416 stroker built....by a reliable builder.  Patience is a virtue, and mine is being tested.  But the truth is, I know I wont be happy unless the car is ridiculous.   The drivetrain is there so it makes no sense to go half way.  It may take longer, but it will be properly nasty.

Stay tuned...
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS Build
Post by: FC3S Murray on September 26, 2014, 06:06:48 PM
416ci will be at home in that clean azz FD :)
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS Build
Post by: wickedrx7 on September 26, 2014, 09:52:29 PM
A little late coming in here, what are your power goals? This is from an L99 with vvt1 (pretty small cam). 

(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5582/15034904520_b7aa58509e_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/oUzPiJ)Scan 7 (https://flic.kr/p/oUzPiJ) by Jonathon Smithson (https://www.flickr.com/people/34173280@N05/), on Flickr
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS Build
Post by: XLR8 on September 29, 2014, 12:47:05 AM
My goals are mid 500's.  It has really just been a matter of how much I want to compromise with those goals.

A little progress today...

I finally man'd up and bought a welder.  I have been barrowing friend's and farming out little jobs for far too long.  With my upcoming exhaust modifications, and needing to get the camber bolts welded, I knew it was time to pick one up.  Weld shop was closed so I had to use flux core on the below.  I will have argon for the exhaust work.

Samberg cradle is in, front suspension is assembled and everything bolted up well.

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20140927_134331_zpsqnctgsux.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20140927_134331_zpsqnctgsux.jpg.html)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20140927_160427_zps1gk62arb.jpg)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20140927_160915_zpsewkrk9k5.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20140927_160915_zpsewkrk9k5.jpg.html)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20140927_211517_zpsqlijxcic.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20140927_211517_zpsqlijxcic.jpg.html)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20140928_161247_zpsykdcb5ry.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20140928_161247_zpsykdcb5ry.jpg.html)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20140928_161335_zpsdsfotbtn.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20140928_161335_zpsdsfotbtn.jpg.html)
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS Build
Post by: XLR8 on September 29, 2014, 01:06:56 PM
UPDATE!

Finally!!  I got my money back from the nightmare deal that was the LS7.  I am now pressing forward with the 416ci stroker.  This builder comes recommended by Gnx7 and has been great to work with thus far.  4-6 weeks, I will have my powerplant.

Finally!  I am moving forward.  I do believe all is right with the world.
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS Build
Post by: largeorangefont on September 29, 2014, 01:59:15 PM
Nice!! You'll like that much better than the iron block 454.

Have you been in a V8 powered 7 yet?
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS Build
Post by: halfspec on September 29, 2014, 02:24:56 PM
Congrats Josh! Looking forward to seeing the 416!

Nice pickup with the welder too! Question - Are you going to be able to weld SS with that MIG? I'm no welder, so I'm asking for real, not asking because I know the answer and want to know if you know ;)

Lane
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS Build
Post by: XLR8 on September 29, 2014, 07:07:10 PM
Congrats Josh! Looking forward to seeing the 416!

Nice pickup with the welder too! Question - Are you going to be able to weld SS with that MIG? I'm no welder, so I'm asking for real, not asking because I know the answer and want to know if you know ;)

Lane


Thanks Lane!  I am so pumped man.  I literally leaped in the air at work when I saw the wire transfer clear.  I'm ready to move forward for sure. 

Yes, I will be able to weld steel, stainless steel, and aluminum.  Though MIG welding aluminum is tricky it can be done.  You just can't create those beautiful smooth welds you typically see from a TIG.  You have to move fast because aluminum is conductive, and melts quick.

This is the one I purchased.  It's a nice 120v which allows me to plug it into any standard wall socket.  It's important that it's on its own breaker, but I had no issues.  I did repeated passes when welding my camber bolts, which are around 1/8" thick on the hottest setting with no issues.  There is a nice cheat sheet on the inner lid to show you wire feed and heat settings for particular materials.  Really helpful for beginners.  Overall, a good buy for simple automotive jobs.

Lincoln - K2480-1

I did look at this one.  It was a bit less, and still got consistent good reviews.  I chose the above really for increased power if I would ever need it, and the ability to independently adjust wire feed speeds and power.  These Lincolns will last 20+ years of use so I figured it was worth the little extra.

Lincoln - K2185-1

Nice!! You'll like that much better than the iron block 454.

Have you been in a V8 powered 7 yet?

Thanks!  Between you and Mark, you really swayed me.  I have ridden in Mikymomo's white LS3 FD.  It was... an eye opener.  He is putting down around 440/440 and it was pretty brutal.  Even coming from a 500whp rotary setup, it just felt instant and nasty.  I think this 416 is going to be very interesting! ;)
Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS Build
Post by: halfspec on September 30, 2014, 10:27:59 AM

Thanks Lane!  I am so pumped man.  I literally leaped in the air at work when I saw the wire transfer clear.  I'm ready to move forward for sure. 

Yes, I will be able to weld steel, stainless steel, and aluminum.  Though MIG welding aluminum is tricky it can be done.  You just can't create those beautiful smooth welds you typically see from a TIG.  You have to move fast because aluminum is conductive, and melts quick.

This is the one I purchased.  It's a nice 120v which allows me to plug it into any standard wall socket.  It's important that it's on its own breaker, but I had no issues.  I did repeated passes when welding my camber bolts, which are around 1/8" thick on the hottest setting with no issues.  There is a nice cheat sheet on the inner lid to show you wire feed and heat settings for particular materials.  Really helpful for beginners.  Overall, a good buy for simple automotive jobs.

Lincoln - K2480-1

I did look at this one.  It was a bit less, and still got consistent good reviews.  I chose the above really for increased power if I would ever need it, and the ability to independently adjust wire feed speeds and power.  These Lincolns will last 20+ years of use so I figured it was worth the little extra.

Lincoln - K2185-1

Well that's good to know. I've done some reading over the years and I was under the impression that working with SS was a real chore with MIGs. Especially 110VAC MIGs. I thought it was hard to get the proper shielding, rods, and penetration with MIGs. I'll be interested to see your results  :cheers:

Lane

Title: Re: XLR8's Darkside LS Build
Post by: XLR8 on September 30, 2014, 02:12:18 PM
It can be.  SS does require a little more heat,  but that also depends on how thick of metal you will be working with.  I knew the only real SS I would be welding is exhaust pipe which I can get by with on a 140 amp.  Another key thing with SS is the gas mix used.  It is different from steel to SS as welk as types of SS.  So knowing what you are working with can help eliminate splatter. 

I looked at quite a few things when I bought this welder and figured I would have no issues doing light duty SS work such as the exhaust.   Hopefully it works out.  We shall see...lol
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on October 03, 2014, 08:07:16 PM
Holley HP EFI, Holley 95mm throttle body, Holley anodized black fuel rails

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20141003_173102_zpsqgqzyr6v.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20141003_173102_zpsqgqzyr6v.jpg.html)
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: AKINA FC on October 03, 2014, 08:18:04 PM
Awesome, no valve covers too?
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: Supe on October 03, 2014, 09:33:12 PM
You'll love the HP EFI.  I do! (At least when I don't forget to double nut the exhaust so the O2 sensor doesn't read a massive false lean...  :secret:)
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on October 04, 2014, 09:52:42 AM
Awesome, no valve covers too?

I looked at the valve covers and they are nice.  But I prefer the concealed coil look.  With my black and polished scheme, I plan to run these and see how they do.  If I don't get the desired looks, I will probably get the Holley valve covers.  The Billet Specialties coil covers are hands down the nicest I have seen but a $1k pricetag is just insulting.

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/3993_zps1u98n6gy.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/3993_zps1u98n6gy.jpg.html)


You'll love the HP EFI.  I do! (At least when I don't forget to double nut the exhaust so the O2 sensor doesn't read a massive false lean...  :secret:)

Vband... ;)

Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on October 04, 2014, 03:09:34 PM
Some details on my engine and builder...

416ci LS3 Stroker being built at Redline Motorsports
 
New 6.2L LS3 Block and covers
Crank – Callies 4340 Forged 4" w/58x reluctor
Rods – Callies 4340 Forged I Beam with ARP bolts
Pistons w/ Pins and Rings– 4032 Forged
Bearings(Main,Rod) – King Extreme Rod and Mains
Pushrods - 4130 3/8"
Camshaft w/ Cam Plate– Custom Grind
Lifters – GM LS7 with trays
Lifter Trays/bolts - GM
Heads – LS3 CNC Ported by WCCH, Stainless Valves
BTR Spring kit w/ titanium retainers
Comp Cam roller rockers
GM Head Gaskets
ARP Head studs
ARP Main Studs
Oil Pump – Mellings
Timing Chain Set – Billet Single Roller with Damper
Balanced rotating assembly

I will be running a BER ported factory LS3 intake with the Holley 95mm TB as well.
LS9 Injectors on the Holley rails
Mcleoud RXT twin disc
ATI balancer
PWR high flow water pump
Polished LS1 accessories

 :drive: :bacon: :drive:

Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: wickedrx7 on October 04, 2014, 03:23:24 PM
Why ls1 accesories? Ls3's work fine.
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: largeorangefont on October 04, 2014, 03:23:40 PM
Yep that will do.
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: digitalsolo on October 04, 2014, 04:25:43 PM
Why ls1 accesories? Ls3's work fine.

Why not?
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: Mik3ymomo on October 04, 2014, 04:58:39 PM
Why ls1 accesories? Ls3's work fine.

I believe the path to A/C is easier and well established.
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: wickedrx7 on October 04, 2014, 06:45:16 PM
Why ls1 accesories? Ls3's work fine.

I believe the path to A/C is easier and well established.

Not true, I actually like the LS3 compressor line path much better than f-body.  The water pump is more efficient on LS3's, that would be the only reason I would lean that way. But his motor is getting built from block up so he won't have accessories so I am assuming the F-body stuff is much easier to come by. 
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on October 04, 2014, 09:20:03 PM
The reason for the Fbody accessory choice is because of the Halfspec A/C line kit.  I am starting from scratch so it's just as easy to buy either setup.  All of which will be new.  As far as the water oump goes, I will be using a high flow PWR.
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: mefarri on October 04, 2014, 11:22:22 PM
I'm STILL trying to figure out what AC setup to run if I want to run LS3 accessories. :confused:  Well LS3 or Y body I think it was.  Whichever brings them in closer.
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on October 05, 2014, 09:13:58 AM
This was my delima as well.  Custom lines, and more work.  I like the CTSV accessories as they are similar to the Fbody and GMPP sells their kits that are well priced.  I also really dislike the pulley design of the Fbodg water pump as well.  After a bit of research,  I just gave in to using Fbody accessories.   Halfspec's kit make it super easy so there is no need to reinvent the wheel.  PWR makes a very nice high flow water pump.  I also found Tuff Stuff Performance who sells chromed or polished factory Fbody accessories.   As far as the coolant pipes go, I may do 1" hard pipes with some trick bracketry.  We shall see.
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: wickedrx7 on October 05, 2014, 01:23:22 PM
Half spec makes and ls3 kit as well.
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on October 05, 2014, 02:28:18 PM
It was my understanding that he didn't have a fitting for the CTS-V compressor.  What am I missing here.   I already purchased the Fbody lines.  :scratch:
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: Ruler_Mark on October 05, 2014, 02:35:21 PM
A turbo or two is what you are missing.  :(
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: mefarri on October 05, 2014, 05:00:44 PM
Yea, ctsv is LS2.  But if I remember right, there was something weird about the LS3 accessories as well.  I'm sure it just had to do with the ac compressor.  I think it's fatter than the f body.  Then I went down the path of ctsv water pump and crank pulley, and then using a f body compressor on the ctsv mount, but I can't remember what the issue was with that.  This is kind of a thread jack, but it's surprisingly hard to figure out without having all the parts in front of you.
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on October 05, 2014, 05:51:54 PM
No sweat dude.  That is how I found the accessory game to be, confusing.  It's easy to figure out what bolts up, but facilitating proper accessories for my needs and other component retrofit was the challenge.  Like Mike stated, the Fbody setup is just easy.  Well documented and the AC line kit I have fits.  The water pump is easily upgradeable as well
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: halfspec on October 05, 2014, 06:04:06 PM
I'll try and settle some of the questions here so Josh's thread can get back on track.

What wicked is referring to is camaro SS LS3 line kits. In this regard, yes, this is something I easily support as an adapter for this particular configuration came into being this spring.
This is not the same thing as a kit that will work with CTSV LS3 accessories. However, I support CTSV lines as well now. The only tricky part about getting AC working with a CTSV LS3 configuration is the compressor adapter. The only means for getting around this issue that I have found is to modify stock CTSV AC lines. It has been done twice and I have built lines for this configuration twice. Actually I'm working on a third at the moment. Pictures of the modified lines used to create a CTSV adapter can be seen here:
http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=19986.15 (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=19986.15)
I can build the lines and support the electronics for anyone that can fabricate the adapter or can hire the work to do it.

Apart from that the only confusing stuff here is mix and match questions. Its best to just simplify things to say that nothing is compatible with anything else haha. What I mean is you can't mix and match parts from LS1, LS2, LS3 CTSV, and LS3 SS Camaro systems. This is especially tricky with the fact that a camaro SS LS3 compressor can not be used with CTSV LS3 accessories and vice versa. The only exception is that LS1 compressors can be used with LS2 accessories as its been done 10x times with lines I've built.

I let Josh know that he could go either way as the LS1 lines are easy to mod for LS3 purposes earlier this year when I met him. I think LS1 accessories are just fine though  :cheers:

With that being said, I hope this clears the air and Josh can continue to give up progress updates on his most excellent choice of engines :D

Lane

Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on October 05, 2014, 07:55:50 PM
 :bacon: :bacon: :bacon:
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: Ruler_Mark on October 06, 2014, 02:01:23 AM
Turbo turbo turbo?  :yay:
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on October 06, 2014, 11:50:41 AM
Not happening my man.    8)
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on October 18, 2014, 11:24:52 PM
UPDATE

Engine:  I got a nice update email from my builder. :) .... Hey Josh, Block is getting machined and will hopefully be done early next week, rotating assembly en route. Richard is getting the heads done, early next week too. (Richard from WCCH) :bacon: :bacon: :bacon:

Parts:  I have my Mcleoud RXT, aluminum flywheel, and ARP hardware ordered from Norcal Autogroup.  I purchased a set of 52lb LSA injectors from a 2014 ZL1.  Same size and plug as the LS3 injectors so they will pop right in and supply plenty of fuel.  I also ordered a dual 3" Magnaflow X-flow muffler.  I'll be replacing the crossover on the Kevin Doe exhaust with this guy.  It should sound great, and not hinder power much.  It's a street car, so I want it to sound good while still be able to hold a conversation.  Besides, if it's too obnoxious, my wife will never ride with me.  Same one as below so it should mock up easily.
(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/2012-03-30_14-46-18_621_zpsdca9fd71.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/2012-03-30_14-46-18_621_zpsdca9fd71.jpg.html)

Plans:  I decided to relocate my coils to the lower frame rail.  It will be tight on the passenger side with A/C but I think I can make it work.  I really want things to be as clean as possible and nice smooth valve covers go a long way in doing that.  Going to order these...


(http://www.jegs.com/images/photos/800/809/809-19171502_20.jpg)

Work:  Still kind of idle without my drivetrain.  Doing little jobs though.. I sorted out my surge tank just the way I want it.  I have never liked the way Samberg mounts it up front.  Functionally, it's great, but for me, it isn't as slick visually.  I went with the vertical Howe tank and it works perfectly.  Steam ports will still vent to the highest point as well.  I will be using aluminum hardlines and Russle fittings.  Picture is of it mocked up.  Brackets and the tank will be black.

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20141018_170146_zpsubvz6vml.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20141018_170146_zpsubvz6vml.jpg.html)
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: Classy on October 20, 2014, 07:56:08 AM
Awesome news on the engine!
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: halfspec on October 20, 2014, 08:06:53 AM
I think the X-Flow is definitely a good idea  :D

Lane
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: Classy on October 20, 2014, 09:05:12 AM
It was my plan for when I still had my RX7.  There is plenty of clearance and you can even fit the long muffler in there if I remember right.
Title: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: paul_3rdgen on October 20, 2014, 10:13:50 AM
You guys don't have to run cats?  Emissions here in Toronto, Canada are a real pain in the ass!
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on October 20, 2014, 03:39:10 PM
Classy -  Thanks!  So pumped man!  It will be nice to actually receive what I paid for!!  Working with RedlineMotorsports has been nothing but awesome so far.  With the muffler it's funny.  I accidentally ordered the larger one.  It arrived with a small dent from shipping.   Called up Summit and they sent the smaller one out with no need to return the other.  Looks like I have two sizes to play with.  Killer customer service!

Lane - I agree!  After watching your video, it's going to be needed to maintain some sort of civility. Lol

Paul-3rdgen - Technically, yes.  Realistically, not having one only comes in to play for 2 scenarios.  If you get pulled over for excessive noise it may be obvious or if you live in a state that has yearly inspections.  My car is registered to the greatest state in the Union; West Virginia.   I am also active duty military so my vehicle registrations never match where I live.  In turn, as long as it's not stupid loud, it's all gravy. ;)
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: quinns on October 20, 2014, 10:51:54 PM
You guys don't have to run cats?  Emissions here in Toronto, Canada are a real pain in the ass!

Better move to SK. As long as your exhaust isn't too loud and exits behind the passenger compartment your golden.



Take good pics of this exhaust once your done. I wanted to run one of those x mufflers but didn't think it would fit.
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: coastlineamps on October 22, 2014, 10:27:45 PM
I am loving this thread. I am going to do the same route on my FD....Keep me posted....
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on October 22, 2014, 11:21:47 PM
Once I obtain the drivetrain and start movi g forward I plan to document as much as possible.  I have learned so much in the past year and I am still absorbing.   I always enjoy helping folks!
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: bimbleuk on October 23, 2014, 03:47:42 AM
I relocated the coils each side behind the outer wings and used ~1m custom leads routed through the existing cable ducts. Plenty of room to mount them and they must run cooler which can't be a bad thing.

I'd be interested to see how far the mid box hangs down as I was going to do a similar upgrade to my single 3" exhaust next year.
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: Ebush on October 23, 2014, 04:13:57 AM
Great looking build, if your interested, I have some valve covers for sale in the forsale section. They might be what your looking for, or you might hate them. The coil brackets can be removed and you will never be able to tell they used to have coil brackets on there. The brackets bolt onto the valve covers down near the base where the cover and intake meet.
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on October 23, 2014, 07:07:29 AM
Thank you.  I looked at the Proform covers and I like them ok.  I need them to be polished, which they do sell, but I liked the GMPP style a litte better.
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on October 23, 2014, 09:51:39 PM
I relocated the coils each side behind the outer wings and used ~1m custom leads routed through the existing cable ducts. Plenty of room to mount them and they must run cooler which can't be a bad thing.

I'd be interested to see how far the mid box hangs down as I was going to do a similar upgrade to my single 3" exhaust next year.

When you say "behind the outer wings", do you mean on the backside of the heads between the heads and the firewall?
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: bimbleuk on October 24, 2014, 03:12:46 AM
^^^ Maybe you call them Fenders rather than wings! Anyway a picture is usually best.

(http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s257/bimbleuk/Mazda%20RX7%20V8%20-%20Jenvey%20ITBs/Coil_Packs_Relocated_zpsa444bccd.jpg) (http://s154.photobucket.com/user/bimbleuk/media/Mazda%20RX7%20V8%20-%20Jenvey%20ITBs/Coil_Packs_Relocated_zpsa444bccd.jpg.html)

(http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s257/bimbleuk/Mazda%20RX7%20V8%20-%20Jenvey%20ITBs/Magnecor_Leads_Installed_2_zpsccb9f6bc.jpg) (http://s154.photobucket.com/user/bimbleuk/media/Mazda%20RX7%20V8%20-%20Jenvey%20ITBs/Magnecor_Leads_Installed_2_zpsccb9f6bc.jpg.html)
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: Classy on October 24, 2014, 08:04:51 AM
Awesome deal on the mufflers!

As for the coil placement...  I like how hidden the coils are hidden behind the fender, but at the same time, it isn't super pleasing to the eye to have the wires run like that. 

I always like them being installed on the firewall that way you can really tuck the wires too.
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: bimbleuk on October 24, 2014, 01:14:07 PM
As for the coil placement...  I like how hidden the coils are hidden behind the fender, but at the same time, it isn't super pleasing to the eye to have the wires run like that. 

I always like them being installed on the firewall that way you can really tuck the wires too.

:) No problem hiding the leads on my install as I have an air box sat on each valve cover but that's for another thread.
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: jparker7 on October 24, 2014, 04:14:26 PM
What is the purpose of putting the coils there
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on October 24, 2014, 11:58:03 PM
Ah, I get it now.  I have actually seen a C6 with this done as well.  Coils placed inside the fenders.  For me, coil relocation is a tricky thing.  I want to place the coils in location that is hidden, but also doesn't make the wires apparently obvious either.  The lower frame rail will seem to work well, if I use a 90 degree plug end.  By doing this, and efficiently placed mounts, I can guide the wires under the headers and forward.  Of course, staring at pictures for hours, I can only get an idea of how it will work.  Once I get the engine in the bay, I will be able to put together what is possible.  For me, it's my favorite part!!  Like car builder Tetris I get to try to make it all work while also making it unique.  8)

It has been proven that the coils can be mounted on the covers and still look decent.  If I just can't do anything I think will be functionally sound, and visually appealing, then I may go back to putting the coils on the covers.  The Holley covers do it pretty well.  Billet Specialties makes a modular valve cover/coil cover set that is just excellent.  However, at $1200, it's a complete joke for anyone not building a $115k hod rod resto.
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: Exidous on October 27, 2014, 06:24:49 AM
I cannot see pics at work but make sure you back purge any SS with argon. I have never MIG'd SS as I bought a cheap 200A TIG that has served me well for four years now but if you don't backpurge the SS, sugaring will be so bad that you can hit the seam with a hammer and it will want to nearly shatter.

Love the build FYI! :-)

P.S. if you are ever in the market, I use a longevity 200 Amp TIG welder and it works on 120 single phase(limits you to about 90 amps) or 220/240v split phase 50/60Hz just fine. Only issue is you cannot control the frequency for AC.

Having 220v in Europe is awesome. I just plug my welder into the dryer outlet(normal euro plug) and I can get to nearly 200A. The circuits here are good to 3300w(220v/15A rather than the 2000(120v/20A usually 15A plugs though) in the states.
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on November 02, 2014, 11:54:37 PM
I have been in constant contact with the builder and everything is going great.  Rotating assembly is off to balance and it should be a complete engine in 2 weeks. 

I have opted to have the builder dyno the engine before shipping it.  We discussed the option and I think it's worth it.  This does a few things for me.  First, it ensures the engine is broke in with no ring washing and, it will get broke in on the dyno.  Next, I am shipping all of my injectors, rails, TB, ECU, harness, etc; so I am getting a very nice base map with my parts.  Finally, it ensures everything on the engine is solid when I receive it.  Though an issue isn't likely, it would be a pretty big hassle finding out after the swap IF there was an internal issue.  This way, I receive the engine with dyno sheet, ready to rock.  I think it's $500 well spent.

Oh, and surge tank mounted.  Overflow line routed through the fender.

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20141031_114208_zpsxjslxivi.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20141031_114208_zpsxjslxivi.jpg.html)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20141101_172558_zpsdi0wfgb3.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20141101_172558_zpsdi0wfgb3.jpg.html)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20141031_114228_zps1km4cvk6.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20141031_114228_zps1km4cvk6.jpg.html)

I had to make some modifications to the Holley harness.  Though I am shipping everything to the builder for the dyno day, I did sone prefitting to move things along.  I also wanted it to be modular.  There are about 6 loose wires that come off the harness to be wired to the chassis.  I added weatherpak connectors and loom so it can be easily removed from the car if needed.

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20141025_145707_zpsb51shywa.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20141025_145707_zpsb51shywa.jpg.html)

Below is my Racetronix dual fan relay harness.  I could have made one but I just love supporting these guys.  They have some great wiring solutions.  All excellent quality.  The Holley will stage each fan by temp while also dedicating one for independent A/C control.

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20141101_115149_zpsftruofnm.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20141101_115149_zpsftruofnm.jpg.html)
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: halfspec on November 03, 2014, 08:59:31 AM
I'm loving the surge tank. Great work Josh :)

Lane
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on November 07, 2014, 12:08:30 AM
My heads are completed by WCCH and my Comp Cams custom grind cam will be here by week's end.  Assembly should start shortly, followed by some dyno action!  We decided on the following specs with an all around good street cam in mind.

231/247 .617/.624 113

I will post up some more pics soon.  Getting close!

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/attachment_1414687634823_image1_zps0myy3s5q.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/attachment_1414687634823_image1_zps0myy3s5q.jpg.html)
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on November 08, 2014, 08:37:39 PM
I figured I would do a little sound deadening work while I had the time.  I have some foam on order to help fill some of the space  behind the plastics.  The mat I used is "FatMat".  It got good reviews and it is WAY cheaper then Dynomat.  I know I know, it isn't Lizard Skin but I think it will do well.  IF I have to pull the dash I will do the entire front of the car.  I definitely plan to line the doors when I pull them apart for my alarm system and keyless install.

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20141103_184103_zpsiojcd1sx.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20141103_184103_zpsiojcd1sx.jpg.html)
(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20141108_124227_zpsxuvcqydx.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20141108_124227_zpsxuvcqydx.jpg.html)
(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20141108_124307_zpsdekbkgp0.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/201411  08_124307_zpsdekbkgp0.jpg.html)

I got my relay boxes relocated to my liking.  They are close to where they were but I had to move some of the mounting around.

 (http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20141108_170846_zpsdhv9lyhm.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20141108_170846_zpsdhv9lyhm.jpg.html)

 I am mocking up my Samberg radiator tomorrow so I can mount my fan harness and tie the wiring together.  I noticed when I first got the kit it looked like it will be tricky with the way my bumper mounts on the top side. 

The car as it sits.  Lots to do yet.  I am taking a week of leave when my engine arrives.  My last class for the year ends at around the same time so it's perfect.  No students until January.   It's game on!

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20141107_104222_zps9toq9ekt.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20141107_104222_zps9toq9ekt.jpg.html)
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on November 11, 2014, 11:47:23 PM
The Samberg radiator kit didn't mount up around the bumper due to my Feed Type I wickedness.  As such, some trimming was in order.  Steady hand and a cutoff wheel got it done. 

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20141109_153726_zpsgky0holr.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20141109_153726_zpsgky0holr.jpg.html)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20141111_182511_zpsaolrdpsd.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20141111_182511_zpsaolrdpsd.jpg.html)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20141111_182437_zpslnyl7ehv.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20141111_182437_zpslnyl7ehv.jpg.html)

The lower lip lined up perfectly.   I will be doing some more duct work.

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20141109_153751_zpst8ucofeo.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20141109_153751_zpst8ucofeo.jpg.html)
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: AKINA FC on November 12, 2014, 10:41:33 AM
Looking great!
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: BlinD on November 12, 2014, 11:01:42 AM
Car is coming along great. Do you have a more detailed picture of how you mounted the thinner relay box? I've been scratching my head on a good way to mount this as there is not a good place to drill into without hitting a contact for something.

Mine is currently floating by the wires
(https://scontent-b-mia.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/1459153_10151724415451566_1433746593_n.jpg?oh=87218ff02a625d19590a612446cfbc41&oe=54DD454F)


(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20141108_170846_zpsdhv9lyhm.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20141108_170846_zpsdhv9lyhm.jpg.html)
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: ls3_rob on November 12, 2014, 11:52:53 AM
that does look really good

I want to wire tuck mine because my wheel can sometime catch a stray wire
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on November 12, 2014, 10:29:18 PM
Thanks guys!

Below are some pictures of how I mounted the main fuse box.  I had the exact issue a few years ago when I first relocated it to the lower rail, so I had to get clever. 

If you look at the side of the plastic fuse box you see a slotted tab that slightly raises above where the fuses begin.  The slot fits a 1" wide strip of aluminum perfectly.  Of course, it slides in perfect but there is no natural way to mount it.  I drilled 2 small holes through the plastic at the very top of the slot.  There is just enough room to drill the holes in the plastic, and clear where the fuse plugs in on the other side.  Beyond that, drill matching holes in the aluminum strip, use some short screws with thin nuts...boom.  I bent the bottom of the aluminum strip to make an "L".  From there,  you can mount it virtually anwhere.  For the cover, I had to slot it to clear the screws.  After that, it snaps into place as normal.  The slots are completely hidden.  Hope this helps.

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20141112_205158_zpsfvjrbffb.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20141112_205158_zpsfvjrbffb.jpg.html)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20141112_205038_zpsh6qjdr05.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20141112_205038_zpsh6qjdr05.jpg.html)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20141112_205227_zpsn7ylfon8.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20141112_205227_zpsn7ylfon8.jpg.html)
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: BlinD on November 14, 2014, 01:23:34 PM
Interesting solution, I'll have to look at how the bus bar is setup again because where your fusebox support is located is where my battery feed goes.
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: 4packet on November 14, 2014, 06:26:22 PM
Did a similar thing on ours, but mounted higher up
post 136....
http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=9956.135 (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=9956.135)
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: gnx7 on November 14, 2014, 09:09:00 PM
Moving along nicely.....

your clutch ships out next week.  I believe Dave said your 416 is nearly done as well!  I'll mail you out a base tune for the Holley also which should be pretty close.  You will just have to play with hot/cold start, lean cruise, etc.

Did your ABS just not work.... or you deleted it for weight savings?  I'm on the fence on what to do with my non working ABS.  Engine bay is looking good.... just missing a powerplant!
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on November 15, 2014, 03:06:12 PM
Moving along nicely.....

your clutch ships out next week.  I believe Dave said your 416 is nearly done as well!  I'll mail you out a base tune for the Holley also which should be pretty close.  You will just have to play with hot/cold start, lean cruise, etc.

Did your ABS just not work.... or you deleted it for weight savings?  I'm on the fence on what to do with my non working ABS.  Engine bay is looking good.... just missing a powerplant!

Thanks Mark!  You have been a big help.

I am so excited to get the engine here,  let alone installed and driving.  Dave has been awesome to work with.  It's going to be so epic!

With the ABS, it worked fine.  Well, I think it did.   In the 5 years of owning the car, it never engaged during lockup or threw a code for that matter.  The weight savings didn't really mean much either.  I deleted it for sheer cleanliness.  Of course, I did a bit of research before I did and what I found was that most guys that tracked their car or drove at the limit found it to be a big hindrance.   Furthermore, for street driving, I never used it before so it didn't seem to be a "necessity".  My car is driven on nice days only and I keep it geared towards the open road.  I keep good wide, sticky tires on it, which are fixing to get wider and stickier as well ;). 

After weighing my options I gladly ditched that big grubby eye sore.  I have put about 3k miles on it with no ABS and it works fine.  I actually felt like the pedal response was more progressive and controllable.  No regrets at all.
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on November 15, 2014, 09:11:53 PM
I mocked up the Samberg radiator kit completely today.  I had to tweek the positioning a little because of the way my bumper mounts on the top side.  After getting it to my satisfaction, it was time to lay down some satin black.  The fan wiring is also complete with independent control routed to the ECU.  It is now ready for final assembly once the engine is in.

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20141115_121633_zpsx1u2ibcv.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20141115_121633_zpsx1u2ibcv.jpg.html)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20141115_132855_zps25vsxl3c.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20141115_132855_zps25vsxl3c.jpg.html)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20141115_142412_zps2lzt5vu7.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20141115_142412_zps2lzt5vu7.jpg.html)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20141115_155041_zpsjuktoa1w.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20141115_155041_zpsjuktoa1w.jpg.html)
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: digital_hoon on November 15, 2014, 09:25:01 PM
I'm diggin the satin black! I am considering painting mine so I'm looking forward to seeing yours installed!
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on November 15, 2014, 11:48:43 PM
I gotta admit, I really went back and forth on painting or polishing.  But my master plan has structure.  With my color coordination in the bay, it's going to look killer.  You'll see. ;)
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: 1point3liter on November 16, 2014, 01:38:55 PM
looking good.  :bacon:
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: Mik3ymomo on November 16, 2014, 02:46:29 PM
12v ground for the fans on that piece. Hopefully the paint doesn't cause you a problem
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: Sho Amo on November 16, 2014, 09:43:10 PM
I've always wondered why no one does that piece in body color.
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on November 16, 2014, 09:49:18 PM
12v ground for the fans on that piece. Hopefully the paint doesn't cause you a problem

I grounded on the frame rail.
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on November 16, 2014, 09:52:26 PM
I've always wondered why no one does that piece in body color.

It would be a pain to color match.  I also see the intake as an extension of the engine, not the body.  So the black carries over.
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: Ruler_Mark on November 17, 2014, 09:38:07 AM
is this done yet
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on November 17, 2014, 11:39:45 PM
is this done yet

The engine should be on the dyno and shipped within 2 weeks.  From there, it will be at least 2 months before completion.  Can't rush perfection.
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: FC3S Murray on November 21, 2014, 11:41:29 AM
Quote
Can't rush perfection

 


 ::)   Come on man.......you own a RX-7. That word doesn't belong in our vocabulary :D 

I miss the days of building my LS swap, it was a ton of fun trying to put together the "look" you want for your engine bay. I look forward to seeing your completed car :cheers:
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on November 23, 2014, 02:55:09 PM
LOL.  It's my favorite part.  But I always struggle with patience to execute my plan and excitement to drive the car.  Especially with this setup.  It will likely be the most wild.
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on November 24, 2014, 11:13:50 PM
The Holley HP EFI inputs/outputs harness is wired in to the car.  I plan to have the Holley control A/C just as the Fbody PCM does with pressure safety features.  And of course fan control, and traction control.  I do plan to do a full writeup on using the Holley with Halfspec's A/C kit to fully control A/C once it is complete.  I currently have the complete steps, but I don't want to post them until I am 100% sure it will work as intended.  However, I am quite confident.  The Holley is so flexible.  Very happy I went this route so far.

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20141123_153629_zpsdtofv7ni.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20141123_153629_zpsdtofv7ni.jpg.html)
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: digital_hoon on November 24, 2014, 11:18:20 PM
Feel free to write up as much as you want about that holley install! I'll probably bug you about it down the road.

Can't wait to see a startup video!
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on November 24, 2014, 11:21:59 PM
No sweat buddy.  :)
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: Ruler_Mark on November 25, 2014, 10:53:05 AM
Are we there yet?
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on November 27, 2014, 10:17:08 AM
RXT twin disc should be here soon and once the engine arrives everything is ready for it to go in. 

Only major components left to buy are my accessories.   My ATI main pulley is on the engine already so water pump, AC compressor, alternator, brackets and pulleys.  The particular combination I want is pricey, but it will look fantastic.  Coil relocation parts on order so they will arrive soon as well. 

I have a 2 ton hoist, balancer bar, and I ordered this.
 
(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20141127_090152_zps8tihlsye.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20141127_090152_zps8tihlsye.jpg.html)
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on December 06, 2014, 12:50:06 AM
Hits the engine dyno tomorrow. Pics were taken a few days ago. It will be broke in and shipped to me next week. Any takers on power guesses?

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/DSC_1318_zps9wuao86r.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/DSC_1318_zps9wuao86r.jpg.html)
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on December 06, 2014, 09:38:41 PM
Well, the dyno day didn't happen due to congestion.  It looks like the dyno guys are heading to PRI next week so it will be the following week.  More waiting and preparing.
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: digitalsolo on December 07, 2014, 02:00:26 AM
I can find them at PRI and tell them to dyno it good.  ;-)
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: quinns on December 07, 2014, 03:13:01 AM
At least it looks like your getting an engine this time!  8)
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on December 07, 2014, 11:23:12 PM
Oh man, you said it!   So glad that nightmare is over.  It honestly hasn't phased me and I know I will get a quality product this time.  Working with this guy has been awesome and I understand that this one is out of his control.  He has made some great recommendations that saved me money and lined me up with the right parts for the package. 

I did get to drive this today.  :)...  A good friend is flying down from Norfolk to buy it so he wanted me to check it out before he made the trip.  01 ZO6, 48k miles just down the road from my house.  I have to say that I was impressed.   I haven't driven a quick car for over a year, so I just may be getting soft.  I think I am in for a wild ride with the FD, considering the power to weight....

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/Misc%20Pics/20141207_123416_zpsxuudq1sp.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/Misc%20Pics/20141207_123416_zpsxuudq1sp.jpg.html)
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: digitalsolo on December 08, 2014, 09:05:09 AM
An LS/FD like you're building is pretty much a scalpel.   Very effective but will cut the crap out of you if you fail to respect it.   I think you'll have a blast.
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: quinns on December 08, 2014, 09:24:09 AM
Your FD will be at a different level then that vette. My friend has an 03 c5 z06 and while it is certainly fast for a stock car my fd will lay the boots to it every time. :D
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: AKINA FC on December 09, 2014, 12:02:10 PM
Yeah you have just been away from fast cars for a while  :cheers: Z06's are still quick for a production car but our conversions will smash them if done right.
My guess on your engine would be a hair over 600 fwhp on pump gas.
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on December 18, 2014, 06:20:07 PM
Well gents, I can say that I am very pleased!
I should have a video soon, and she should be shipping soon.

Peak numbers...
637hp @ 6300rpm
587tq @ 5300rpm


(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/IMG_1741_zpsjd9ggrlj.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/IMG_1741_zpsjd9ggrlj.jpg.html)
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: coastlineamps on December 18, 2014, 06:23:02 PM
omg....Sweet ass numbers
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: wickedrx7 on December 18, 2014, 06:30:39 PM
Nice numbers. It's going to spin the tires a lot. ;) :D
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: largeorangefont on December 18, 2014, 06:34:14 PM
You are going to wonder why you bothered playing around with turbo rotaries for so long.
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: halfspec on December 18, 2014, 07:27:19 PM
Oh wow! That's awesome Josh! Congrats!


Lane
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: FC3S Murray on December 18, 2014, 08:09:39 PM
Sticky sticky tires are needed. Awesome numbers dude! It will be interesting to see what you put down for rear wheel #'s after you get your own exhaust system on it and  your drivetrain. 
As much as parasitic loss sucks it will be a cool comparison of power/torque your engine makes uninstalled and installed :)
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on December 18, 2014, 08:51:30 PM
Thanks guys!  My expectations have been shattered with those numbers. 

As for tires, I have a pair of BFG 275 drag radials I am picking up from Mikymomo.  Once I get the car rocking and in full form, I do plan to redrum the rears to an 11".  See if I can get a 295 or 315 under it.  I will likely switch to a Nitto NT555R.
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: digital_hoon on December 19, 2014, 09:11:27 AM
Great numbers Josh! Can't wait to see what it puts down at the wheels!

I will likely switch to a Nitto NT555R.

More than a couple local guys happily running NT05R's around me. Depending on how much rain the car will see, might want to look into them as well.

If you didn't want to modify your wheels, you could run a 275 MT ET Street. That would probably give more grip than a 295 Nitto.

Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: zbrown on December 19, 2014, 09:16:24 AM
So what it's the cam and icl?
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on December 19, 2014, 12:19:51 PM
So what it's the cam and icl?

231/247 .617/.624 113 LSA

I'm not sure what the ICL is.  I would imagine it's straight up or a few degrees advanced.
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: zbrown on December 19, 2014, 01:43:58 PM
OK thank you. Be interesting to see what an intake would do.  Carry that tq a little higher and it would really make power
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: Mik3ymomo on December 19, 2014, 01:50:38 PM
OK thank you. Be interesting to see what an intake would do.  Carry that tq a little higher and it would really make power

Or go the easy route and just throw boost at it. Either way...
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: paul_3rdgen on December 19, 2014, 01:59:03 PM
Very nice numbers!  Time for racelogic traction control. 
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: MPbdy on December 19, 2014, 05:01:26 PM
I'm a nerd so I made a graph of your engine dyno.

Really impressive through the ls3 intake.  You thought the c5z was fast?  I have a feeling this car is going to want to go every direction but straight haha.

(http://i.imgur.com/DesIqZp.png)
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: largeorangefont on December 19, 2014, 05:29:57 PM
A Torsen with DRs will hook up and kill.

You are running 3.55 gears?
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on December 19, 2014, 06:18:20 PM
OK thank you. Be interesting to see what an intake would do.  Carry that tq a little higher and it would really make power

I considered it.  But with the FAST fitment being a hassle, and my overall use of the car, I will likely stick with the ported stock intake.

Very nice numbers!  Time for racelogic traction control.

Thanks!  I plan to run the Davis Traction Control EFI-TC2 unit that interfaces directly  with the Holley.  It looks very trick.

http://www.moretraction.com/Products_Drag_EFI.htm (http://www.moretraction.com/Products_Drag_EFI.htm)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/EFI-TC2_small_zpset8v00gr.png) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/EFI-TC2_small_zpset8v00gr.png.html)

I'm a nerd so I made a graph of your engine dyno.

Really impressive through the ls3 intake.  You thought the c5z was fast?  I have a feeling this car is going to want to go every direction but straight haha.

Thank you!  I was going to do that but things have been super busy.  It's nice to get a visual on how it did.  As for the FD, I think it's going to rip!  It truly should be more power then I can use, which is what I wanted.

A Torsen with DRs will hook up and kill.

You are running 3.55 gears?

Yes Sir.  OEM Cobra diff with 3.55s.
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: mefarri on December 19, 2014, 06:49:10 PM
Can we just take into account you have 500ft lbs at what is most likely 3 grand if not sooner?  How can you argue with that? Also. Please weigh your car after and post it on rx7club so hopefully they'll finally understand the whole weight and weight bias thing.
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on December 19, 2014, 09:34:52 PM
Can we just take into account you have 500ft lbs at what is most likely 3 grand if not sooner?  How can you argue with that? Also. Please weigh your car after and post it on rx7club so hopefully they'll finally understand the whole weight and weight bias thing.

Absolutely!   Most 416 builds I have scouted out that showed engine dyno numbers made nearly 400ftlbs at 2k rpm.  Considering mine has some seriously rockin numbers, I think it will do every bit of it. 

As for weight, I am close to a scale and plan to have it weighed.  Even if I picked up 100lbs, the power plant I have installed isn't even on the same planet as a turbo 13b.  I am very excited to move forward!

Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: largeorangefont on December 19, 2014, 09:52:28 PM
This will be great with 3.55s. Consider a Torsen style diff at some point, if you like to corner carve. The Ford Trac Lok will work but the Torsen will put the power down better
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: wickedrx7 on December 19, 2014, 10:00:33 PM
This will be great with 3.55s. Consider a Torsen style diff at some point, if you like to corner carve. The Ford Trac Lok will work but the Torsen will put the power down better

+1, love mine, glad I listened to Ashley on this and did it right the first time. 
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: gnx7 on December 20, 2014, 04:11:11 PM
Nice #'s!

The LS3 intake hits a wall around 6200rpm just like a production LS7... but those numbers will definitely work.

My LS7 only made 520rwhp/472rwtq and did 110mph in the 1/8 and 138 best 1/4.  Normally 135-137mph.  Your car basically has the same power.  It'll rip.
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on December 22, 2014, 03:40:07 PM

Mcleod RXT arrived today. :D

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20141222_115315_zpsfgsjxqlc.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20141222_115315_zpsfgsjxqlc.jpg.html)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20141222_115618_zpsjycnzhrd.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20141222_115618_zpsjycnzhrd.jpg.html)
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: AKINA FC on December 22, 2014, 04:17:59 PM
Nice! You're gonna love that clutch.  Looks like they changed some things in the past year or so as the base plate isn't gold anymore. Did you get there aluminum flywheel?
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: quinns on December 22, 2014, 11:28:25 PM
Do I get to see an engine in an engine bay sometime this year or what? :yay:
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on December 23, 2014, 01:32:03 AM
Nice! You're gonna love that clutch.  Looks like they changed some things in the past year or so as the base plate isn't gold anymore. Did you get there aluminum flywheel?

I did get the aluminum.  ;)

Do I get to see an engine in an engine bay sometime this year or what? :yay:

We shall see!  I now have everything to drop it in place.  It should ship soon but with the holidays I'm not sure what to expect with a delivery date.  I paid for residential delivery so it will come straight to my door!
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on December 27, 2014, 12:40:44 PM
http://youtu.be/-Gfd3hUmax4 (http://youtu.be/-Gfd3hUmax4)
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on December 27, 2014, 01:48:06 PM
Engine ships Monday...  8)
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: digitalsolo on December 27, 2014, 03:02:43 PM
That thing is going to be plain nasty!
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: RTRx7 on December 27, 2014, 04:47:57 PM
Can't wait to see this thing in action!  :D
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: mattster03 on December 27, 2014, 07:17:26 PM
oh man... your car is going to be insane with that power plant.  does the shop have an "average conversion" factor that they give people for what to expect in WHP from their engine dyno numbers?  Im thinking between drivetrain and accessories it's gotta be around 20%, but I have no idea
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: halfspec on December 27, 2014, 07:19:39 PM
Very excited to see this beast dropped into your engine bay :)

Lane
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: FC3S Murray on December 27, 2014, 07:35:57 PM
.......sounds so good.....I want one......so poor I am.... :'(
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: paul_3rdgen on December 27, 2014, 08:15:03 PM
^It's not poor, it's being able to justify the cost to yourself... Lol
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on December 27, 2014, 09:34:05 PM
^It's not poor, it's being able to justify the cost to yourself... Lol

Truth.  All I can say is I am glad my wife supports me.  Otherwise, it would be hard to justify $10k for the engine alone....  As for justifying it to myself, you guys know I went back and forth quite a bit.  I know me, I would regret not going all out.

As for a whp number, we will see.  There is a chassis dyno close to me and I plan to give it a go.  My speculation is 550-570whp.    That may be optimistic but our swaps seem to put it down.
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: MPbdy on December 27, 2014, 09:49:13 PM
Sorry I'm gonna be a buzz kill but I don't want you to be disappointed later with what is an awesome build.

Keep in mind your intake won't be as efficient, headers and exhaust won't be nearly as good, you'll have accessories on, and you won't be able to run as aggressive of timing in the car as they did on the engine dyno.

The engine won't make 630fwhp in the car, and regardless what the chassis dyno says this thing is going to thump! 
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: paul_3rdgen on December 27, 2014, 09:50:40 PM
Congrats and I'm sure you will not regret the choice you made...can't wait to see the Rwhp numbers.  It's tough to drop 10k but it always costs more and it's never the same when you build it slowly.  You did it right!  I regret not building a real motor for my car.  One day.
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on December 27, 2014, 09:51:04 PM
I got a PM about the Holley HP inputs and how I am setting it up.  I wanted to post this here for others.

I figured out my I/O's about a month ago.  I actually planned to post a thread with screen shots to help others along.  They changed a little, but I am pretty set on the configuration now.  I have yet to test everything but I am confident it will all work as planned.  The fan configuration is already set aside in the software for configuring temperature and so fourth.  The A/C was a little tricky at first, but I have it sorted out.  I used Halfspec's wiring A/C kit which provided a relay wire to turn on the compressor, a relay wire to give an input for the in-cabin A/C button, as well as the GM pressure sensor wiring for the input.  The Holley allows you to trigger outputs under many different conditions of inputs.  Whether it's an internal sensor threshold or the actual (4) wired inputs.  This allows awesome flexibility for the A/C or any other function you want to tailor.  For example, I have it set up to turn on the A/C compressor only if the following conditions are met; the cabin button is pushed, the pressure sensor reads within the correct range (voltage), and the engine is under 4k rpm.  With the cooling fans, I have them staged by temperature.  However, the second fan is not only staged by temperature, but it also turns on when I turn on the A/C compressor.  You can do this with literally any output.  You have this and/or feature that give you all the control you need.  I encourage downloading the Holley software and playing with it to get a feel for what you can do.

As you know we have 4 inputs and 4 outputs.  But, you have to be strategic on how you wire things up and what you choose.  The reason being is only certain pins can output in certain ways.  For example, only the PWM + output can switch to a constant +, and the same for the PWM -.  The same is true with the inputs.  The HP runs out of inputs and outputs fast as well.

Below is what I am doing. 

Running A/C like the factory ECU
Traction Control
Cooling Fans

Inputs
1 - A12 - Frequency (F) - Driveshaft Sensor input - Driveshaft sensor input needed for the Davis Traction Control.
2 - A3 - Hot Positive (H) - A/C Button switch - Used for when pressing the A/C button.  Wired in to Halfspec's A/C kit.
3 - A13 - Frequency (F) - Traction Control Input - Signal from Davis Traction Control unit to tell the ECU there is a slip.
4 - A4 - 5 volt (5) - A/C pressure sensor input - Input for GM safety pressure sensor.  Allows compressor to run safely with refrigerant.

Outputs
1 - B12 - 12 volts + (H) - Turn On A/C Compressor - Outputs to Halfspec's wiring kit.  Used to turn on compressor
2 - B11 - 12 volts + (H) - Factory CEL - Wired to CEL in cluster.  Allows you to trigger for any condition (water temp, oil pres)
3 - B10 - 12 volt - (G) - Electric Fan 1 - triggered at a certain temperature
4 - B3 - 12 volt - (G) - A/C Electric Fan 2 - triggered at a certain temperature or when A/C is triggered.

There is only one missing link with the above; Traction Control enable.  I am one input short to allow me to wire up a physical switch to turn on/off the Traction Control.  Davis's wiring manual shows the option to set up a switch input, or to put the actual box power on a switch as well, but I don't know if the box switched power will effectively work the same way.  I need to call them to confirm.  There is another option... The new Holley LCD dash or 5.7" LCD.  Both of those units have a "digital" switch system that allows you to configure touch screen switches.  They do not require a physical input rather simply set up the input to "LCD" in the software; so they would effectively work the same. 

Feel free to hit me up with any more question.  I'm always happy to help.
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on December 27, 2014, 11:28:47 PM
Sorry I'm gonna be a buzz kill but I don't want you to be disappointed later with what is an awesome build.

Keep in mind your intake won't be as efficient, headers and exhaust won't be nearly as good, you'll have accessories on, and you won't be able to run as aggressive of timing in the car as they did on the engine dyno.

The engine won't make 630fwhp in the car, and regardless what the chassis dyno says this thing is going to thump!

Lol, I hear ya.  My goals have always been 500-550whp.  That is what I made with the rotary so I wanted to make the same power when I started this swap.  Honestly,  I try not to get too hung up on numbers.  As you know, chassis dynos really vary a lot.  I think I will get it down the track a few times so I should be able to throw up a trap time eventually.  I am pretty confident I will be very happy with the power.

And thanks everyone!   Getting a quality power plant has been over a year in the making.  I have some cool stuff planned for asthetics.  I will be taking my time as much as it pains my anxious side.  I will be showing the car a little here and there so I take pride in making things clean and visually unique.  Hopefully, I can get it right the first time in that area. 
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on December 28, 2014, 01:48:58 PM
Build List

I started this spreadsheet a year ago.  It has changed quite a bit, and it will continue to change until I'm completely done.  I also want to continue adding some technical data in there so as I change it, I will come back to this post and update the file.  This was my purchase path and a good start for someone wanting to build a similar setup. 
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: Ryan23 on December 28, 2014, 07:32:26 PM
Sounds like a solid build and you've got to be chomping at the bit to get it installed. :) I won't be a "buzzkill" but Daniel's point was spot on and as you said, dyno's will vary. You should certainly be in the ballpark of what you're looking for, even on a more optimistic dyno. I chased my tail, for no good reason, and arrived @ 520 whp with my 427. Once the weather warms up, I'll be able to hit the track and finally settle it.

I pulled the trigger on the Holley Dominator to replace my 0411 GM box this winter. Should be interesting to trade notes with ya when the time comes.

Ryan   
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on December 28, 2014, 09:55:13 PM
Sounds like a solid build and you've got to be chomping at the bit to get it installed. :) I won't be a "buzzkill" but Daniel's point was spot on and as you said, dyno's will vary. You should certainly be in the ballpark of what you're looking for, even on a more optimistic dyno. I chased my tail, for no good reason, and arrived @ 520 whp with my 427. Once the weather warms up, I'll be able to hit the track and finally settle it.

I pulled the trigger on the Holley Dominator to replace my 0411 GM box this winter. Should be interesting to trade notes with ya when the time comes.

Ryan   

Oh man, I sure am!  This thing should be one mean street car. You can't go wrong with the Dominator.  It truly has every feature you will ever need.  I have yet to meet one person who went with the Holley HP or Dominator and regret it.  I look forward to seeing many of its functions work first hand.
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: digital_hoon on December 29, 2014, 07:51:08 PM
Whoa! Thanks for sharing all that info! Thing is going to be a monster!
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on January 02, 2015, 10:27:59 PM
Whoa! Thanks for sharing all that info! Thing is going to be a monster!

No problem.  I have a wiring document as well, I will post it once I finish adding everything.

 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
Engine shipped with tracking. I will pick it up Tuesday!
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: halfspec on January 03, 2015, 08:36:56 AM
Engine shipped with tracking. I will pick it up Tuesday!

Drum roll please  :yay:

Lane
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: Classy on January 05, 2015, 07:25:58 AM
So, it will be in on Wednesday???
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on January 05, 2015, 01:15:23 PM
So, it will be in on Wednesday???

Engine arrives tomorrow morning at the terminal in Mobile.  I will be picking it up tomorrow afternoon.  Time for the daily to go to work  :)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/20140719_182705_zps4p3q8u4s.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/20140719_182705_zps4p3q8u4s.jpg.html)
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on January 06, 2015, 09:45:53 AM
So, it will be in on Wednesday???

In my garage. :-)

I should get it in the car this weekend.  But I have a few "things" to take care of first.
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: Mik3ymomo on January 06, 2015, 11:03:23 AM
Polishing the underside of the oil pan first?
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on January 06, 2015, 12:20:11 PM
Polishing the underside of the oil pan first?

It's all about the details....
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: wickedrx7 on January 06, 2015, 01:01:46 PM
You are a baller only if you polish the inside of oil pan!
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: halfspec on January 06, 2015, 01:08:18 PM
You are a baller only if you polish the inside of oil pan!

I hear that decreases your chances of oil starvation by 10%  :yay:

Lane
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on January 07, 2015, 12:31:12 AM
ENGINE!!!!

Everything has been inspected with no shipping damage.  Overall, very happy.  Now the real work begins...

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150106_185354_zpsrydkzlg7.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150106_185354_zpsrydkzlg7.jpg.html)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150106_190547_zpse4piptiu.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150106_190547_zpse4piptiu.jpg.html)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150106_210205_zpsuwmzc81o.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150106_210205_zpsuwmzc81o.jpg.html)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150106_210214_zpsagzj0raz.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150106_210214_zpsagzj0raz.jpg.html)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150106_210236_zpstbm4kb5m.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150106_210236_zpstbm4kb5m.jpg.html)


Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: quinns on January 07, 2015, 02:06:40 AM
(http://a2.img.mobypicture.com/fa99f61ada2df2bd41977d3fb8fe01ad_view.jpg)
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: digitalsolo on January 07, 2015, 08:58:56 AM
That looks like they accidentally shipped you my engine.  I'll get a crate right over to pick that up!

:D

Looks great!   Happy you finally got a motor!   This thing is going to be a BEAST.
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: halfspec on January 07, 2015, 09:09:58 AM
Wow! That thing is sweet! Can't wait to see it in the bay. Glad you finally got someone who could deliver the goods  :cheers:

Lane
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: digital_hoon on January 07, 2015, 09:28:52 AM
Yahhh buddy! Congrats!

I'm living vicariously through your build while I continue to gather my remaining parts so I expect installed pics soon! lol
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: fdrx7 on January 07, 2015, 09:00:04 PM
The motor looks sweet! Which fuel rail did you run?
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on January 07, 2015, 10:15:47 PM
Thanks guys!  Holley billet rails.
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on January 11, 2015, 12:57:42 AM
Go time!!

To continue my master plan I masked everything off and laid down a coat of satin black on the entire engine.  I'm sure many folks think I'm crazy for painting an all aluminum engine, but I have a specific vision in mind.  It's going to look very unique, clean, and sharp when finished.  Should be pretty quick too. 8)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150107_205954_zpsyo6sokrz.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150107_205954_zpsyo6sokrz.jpg.html)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150108_181746_zpshbvrmf5z.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150108_181746_zpshbvrmf5z.jpg.html)

The Mcleod RXT install went smoothly.

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150109_190003_zpsrvltxzed.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150109_190003_zpsrvltxzed.jpg.html)

Pilot bearing
(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150109_190016_zpshngozlti.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150109_190016_zpshngozlti.jpg.html)

I did go with the aluminum flywheel.  Using ARP hardware as well.
(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150109_204141_zpsavbiqgt2.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150109_204141_zpsavbiqgt2.jpg.html)

Disc one
(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150109_205107_zpsrq8kclhu.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150109_205107_zpsrq8kclhu.jpg.html)

Disc Two
(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150109_205739_zpsip4jlf9c.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150109_205739_zpsip4jlf9c.jpg.html)

Buttoned up
(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150109_210426_zpsny5fi826.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150109_210426_zpsny5fi826.jpg.html)

Joining the tranny and engine was easy with no frills.  I called it a night and had it set up for dropping it in first thing in the morning.
(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150109_215740_zpsiovm1ink.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150109_215740_zpsiovm1ink.jpg.html)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150109_225014_zpsjrtggffa.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150109_225014_zpsjrtggffa.jpg.html)

The install went really smooth.  I had help from a few friends so plenty of eyes and hands to help guide things.  Easy.
(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150110_102732_zpslmsh4gfn.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150110_102732_zpslmsh4gfn.jpg.html)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150110_110202_zps4flywh3x.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150110_110202_zps4flywh3x.jpg.html)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150110_112752_zpssc5tjziz.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150110_112752_zpssc5tjziz.jpg.html)

The crossmember was a bear since I was once again by myself.  I got it done, but it took awhile.  All lined up and everything looks good.  I ended up with about a 6" measurement from the top tranny tunnel, which is not out of the norm apparently.  I do think I am going to weld the backside flanges just for insurance and added support.  Gnx7 gave me a "top tip" with using a 2x4 to prop up the carpet.  It worked great and I wasn't fighting it the entire time.
(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150110_174308_zpsrc5wnvsu.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150110_174308_zpsrc5wnvsu.jpg.html)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150110_210723_zpsqdll8aor.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150110_210723_zpsqdll8aor.jpg.html)

The drivetrain is installed!! :D :D :D
(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150110_211830_zpsxqo0dzyv.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150110_211830_zpsxqo0dzyv.jpg.html)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150110_213334_zpsi0xhm9g5.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150110_213334_zpsi0xhm9g5.jpg.html)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150110_221222_zpspciuezzx.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150110_221222_zpspciuezzx.jpg.html)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150110_222401_zpsyw07veiy.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150110_222401_zpsyw07veiy.jpg.html)
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: mattster03 on January 11, 2015, 01:12:22 AM
wow.. looks amazing!
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: quinns on January 11, 2015, 01:32:26 AM
No doubt. I like the black motor actually. I also like your engine stand  :yay:.
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: Mik3ymomo on January 11, 2015, 11:21:18 AM
You are doing a hell of a job so far. You know how to get shit done!
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: largeorangefont on January 11, 2015, 11:42:40 AM
Looking good!
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: halfspec on January 11, 2015, 12:32:57 PM
Loving the satin black and the fact that it fit in so nicely  :cheers:

Excellent work!
Lane
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: mattster03 on January 11, 2015, 12:39:04 PM
You may have made life a bit easier if you would have dropped the engine in with headers... do you have those already?
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on January 11, 2015, 01:37:05 PM
Thanks guys!  Lots to do but it's all a down hill slope now.  I am mega psyched!! :)  I am doing some wife tasks today so I will only have a few hours to play with it.  Next weekend is a 4-day with MLKJr. Day so I should be able to really knock out some of the smaller jobs.  I have a nice list of odds and end parts that I am ordering up today so I can get everything before then.  The only two major components I have left to purchase is the Holley LCD Dash, and the Davis Traction control unit.  Those suckers aren't cheap so they will come as the money does.  With a want to button up the interior completely, as well as having plenty of time before the trans, and clutch are broke in, I will likely purchase the LCD first. 

The LCD also gives me the ability to add on-screen "digital switches" that are independent from the physical inputs.  I am one input short to allow me to turn the traction control on and off, so there is added benefit there as well.  If you haven't seen their new LCD dash, it's pretty rad.  I did a little "mock" up and it will fit perfectly in the double din outer skin.  Mounting it will be a breeze.  For a sound system I have a small Clairion 4 channel amp that will will be connected to a bluetooth audio receiver.  My phone or iPod will wirelessly link and stream music from there.

(https://rspimages.holley.com/digitaldash.jpg)
(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150103_182618_zps60fjuvxx.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150103_182618_zps60fjuvxx.jpg.html)

I also want to get a few more components painted now, so they will be totally cured when it comes time to install them.  The Dupicolor engine paint I used is really tough stuff, but it takes about 7 days to completely cure, so I like to give it as much time as possible. 

I test fitted the intake manifold, as you can see from the last few pictures.  It sure is close, but it clears.  Once I figure out exactly how I want to connect the fuel rails, and oil pressure sensor, It will be permanently torqued down.

You may have made life a bit easier if you would have dropped the engine in with headers... do you have those already?

I do have my headers, I don't have the gaskets or hardware yet.  I considered dropping it in with the headers, but I would have had to wait for the parts of course.  From my understanding it's pretty tight; tighter than feeding them through? I don't know.  Most advice I have been given is to drop the drive-train in with as little attached as possible.  If I need to jack up the engine or move it around to feed the headers up through, then I can do that as well.
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: digitalsolo on January 11, 2015, 03:46:37 PM
I've put headers in/out the bottom a bunch of times on FDs.   Never really had any trouble.
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: mattster03 on January 11, 2015, 05:36:45 PM
Oh, it's totally doable to get them in after the fact, just lots of opportunities to scratch the frame rails as you're trying to slip them in... and I can already see that would probably be upsetting since the engine bay is so clean.  You'll probably have no problem, just get a 2nd or 3rd set of hands like when you installed the engine.
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: paul_3rdgen on January 11, 2015, 05:57:19 PM
Looks great !  Good choice on painting the engine black.
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: digitalsolo on January 11, 2015, 05:59:00 PM
Oh, it's totally doable to get them in after the fact, just lots of opportunities to scratch the frame rails as you're trying to slip them in... and I can already see that would probably be upsetting since the engine bay is so clean.  You'll probably have no problem, just get a 2nd or 3rd set of hands like when you installed the engine.

Two words:

Masking tape

Seriously.   Helps a ton for that.
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on January 11, 2015, 07:07:22 PM
Oh, it's totally doable to get them in after the fact, just lots of opportunities to scratch the frame rails as you're trying to slip them in... and I can already see that would probably be upsetting since the engine bay is so clean.  You'll probably have no problem, just get a 2nd or 3rd set of hands like when you installed the engine.

Oh, it's totally doable to get them in after the fact, just lots of opportunities to scratch the frame rails as you're trying to slip them in... and I can already see that would probably be upsetting since the engine bay is so clean.  You'll probably have no problem, just get a 2nd or 3rd set of hands like when you installed the engine.

Two words:

Masking tape

Seriously.   Helps a ton for that.

Roger that.  I actually mask alot of parts during pre-fitment.  I will likely get a friend to help either way.  They always seem to want to come over and get their hands dirty now...lol.
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: Sho Amo on January 11, 2015, 07:41:05 PM
I would hardly call installing anything on your car 'getting your hands dirty'
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on January 11, 2015, 10:56:45 PM
I would hardly call installing anything on your car 'getting your hands dirty'

Hey... I found some, once.  8)
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on January 12, 2015, 01:11:39 AM
As I sort out all of the ins and outs, I am looking at my steam ports.  I plan to run all 4, but to keep the lines simplified I am considering joining the front 2 and tap them to the water pump, and joining the rears and have them going to the "abs location" mounted surge tank.


Thoughts?


Thanks guys!
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: jessethedrifter on January 12, 2015, 06:22:26 PM
looks great man! glad to see you finally got your motor in.
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: largeorangefont on January 12, 2015, 07:15:32 PM
As I sort out all of the ins and outs, I am looking at my steam ports.  I plan to run all 4, but to keep the lines simplified I am considering joining the front 2 and tap them to the water pump, and joining the rears and have them going to the "abs location" mounted surge tank.


Thoughts?


Thanks guys!

I would not route potential air bubbles and/or or hot water back into the water pump. the steam vents should be at be at the top of the system to serve their purpose and burp the system.
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: zbrown on January 12, 2015, 11:26:34 PM
Truth
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: gnx7 on January 13, 2015, 12:22:29 PM
Awesome work!   Can't wait to read your feedback on 500rwhp LSx power vs your built 13B turbo making similar power.
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: largeorangefont on January 13, 2015, 12:34:02 PM
Awesome work!   Can't wait to read your feedback on 500rwhp LSx power vs your built 13B turbo making similar power.

That will read something like this...

WTF was I thinking???
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on January 13, 2015, 07:23:46 PM
As I sort out all of the ins and outs, I am looking at my steam ports.  I plan to run all 4, but to keep the lines simplified I am considering joining the front 2 and tap them to the water pump, and joining the rears and have them going to the "abs location" mounted surge tank.


Thoughts?


Thanks guys!

I would not route potential air bubbles and/or or hot water back into the water pump. the steam vents should be at be at the top of the system to serve their purpose and burp the system.

Truth

Roger that.  Using all 4, joining them, and terminating at my surge tank which is the highest point.  Thanks guys!

Mark, as for the rotary, I stopped missing it when I test drove Mikes car. 
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: FC3S Murray on January 15, 2015, 04:03:10 PM
Looking great so far! The paint scheme flows well with your car color and the chrome/black even accentuates your turn signals!

Quote
I would not route potential air bubbles and/or or hot water back into the water pump. the steam vents should be at be at the top of the system to serve their purpose and burp the system.

I agree with Ash. Just tie all 4 together and route them to your bleeder in your upper rad hose (or what ever you guys use in a FD cooling system set-up).


On another note, I am loving the moniter set-up by Holley. Only gripe I personally would have with it where you want to mount would be having to look down in that general area to see my AFR. I have my Wideband guage on my steering column centered in front of my tach. I just like being able to have that dead center in my field of view just in case I see a lean spike when I am going WOT....with your set-up you are not gonna have much time to react to it going lean, its gonna pull so damn quick.  I know this a lingering paranoia from my rotary days but I feel it is always good to have your critical monitoring devices within your peripheral (with out having to look down or turn your head) and keep from diverting your attention from the road.   
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: largeorangefont on January 15, 2015, 04:36:26 PM

On another note, I am loving the moniter set-up by Holley. Only gripe I personally would have with it where you want to mount would be having to look down in that general area to see my AFR. I have my Wideband guage on my steering column centered in front of my tach. I just like being able to have that dead center in my field of view just in case I see a lean spike when I am going WOT....with your set-up you are not gonna have much time to react to it going lean, its gonna pull so damn quick.  I know this a lingering paranoia from my rotary days but I feel it is always good to have your critical monitoring devices within your peripheral (with out having to look down or turn your head) and keep from diverting your attention from the road.   


Those old rotary habits die hard don't they :) If it goes lean in a spiked fashion the power will just go flat.. It's not going to blow up.

Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: FC3S Murray on January 16, 2015, 12:24:48 AM
Oh I know it won't blow up on 1 lean spike lol but just food for thought on gauge placement. Plus what he paid for that engine I wouldn't want it to accidently go lean a couple times while pounding on it because I couldn't clearly see my monitoring equipment ;)
I always seem to err on the side of caution (habit of my job and old rotard days haha).
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on January 17, 2015, 04:24:05 AM
Headers

The headers wen't in very smoothly.  These are Spoolin's 1 7/8" "premium" merge headers that I bought during a group buy many months ago.  I was very pleased how they looked when I received them but after installing them, I can say that I am extremely pleased with the fitment as well.  I didn't even have to bend a heat shield!!  These things truly fit perfect with the Samberg subframe!  They compliment my valve covers exactly how I planned. 

More updates coming soon! 


(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150116_144133_zpse1v9gm5l.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150116_144133_zpse1v9gm5l.jpg.html)
(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150116_144144_zpsjtc0uh4v.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150116_144144_zpsjtc0uh4v.jpg.html)
(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150116_144205_zpsf9wiwfep.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150116_144205_zpsf9wiwfep.jpg.html)
(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150116_144306_zpszsx8ivdf.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150116_144306_zpszsx8ivdf.jpg.html)
(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150116_144321_zpskr3qvz3s.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150116_144321_zpskr3qvz3s.jpg.html)
(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150116_144336_zpsy4eaqa1s.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150116_144336_zpsy4eaqa1s.jpg.html)

Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: FC3S Murray on January 17, 2015, 11:44:28 AM
[smg id=7258 type=full align=center caption="pretty"]
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on January 19, 2015, 10:22:41 PM
FUEL Lines

I finished up my lines this weekend with basically no issues.  I had to experiment a little to get the fitment right simply because everything is so tight back there.  I also have a lot going on back there with wanting the Holley to view both oil and fuel pressure, as well as my steam vent lines making their way.  I have been determined from day 1 not to cut the firewall lip off my car, so I had to get a little creative.  Another complication was to not use a front cross line on the rails.  Below is my solution..

Aeromotive makes this little gem and it worked PERFECTLY.  -8AN to -6AN banjo bolt. 

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/download_zpsla1xswfn.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/download_zpsla1xswfn.jpg.html)

I also added heat sleeving all the way down past the OEM firewall hardline.  I can definitely see the need now the headers are in place.

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150118_153433_zpsjr3ryjow.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150118_153433_zpsjr3ryjow.jpg.html)

Holley oil pressure sensor.
(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150118_175056_zpsmb2los7v.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150118_175056_zpsmb2los7v.jpg.html)

ACCESORIES

I am using all Fbody accessories.  I purchased everything from Rockauto and used solely AC Delco, and Gates parts (cooling).  I will update my build file as I was originally going to use polished OEM components from Tuff Stuff.  I think everything turned out well.  I used a factory tensioner but added DigitalSolo's pulley mod.  We shall see how it does.

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150116_174604_zpsj7po2rjz.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150116_174604_zpsj7po2rjz.jpg.html)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150118_182719_zpsztt2nvyn.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150118_182719_zpsztt2nvyn.jpg.html)


STEAM VENTS


I almost wanted to wait to post about this, but I might as well throw up my progress.  I had to stop short of completion since my fitting package was one short of a -3AN "T".  I should be able to wrap it up next weekend.  In any case, I decided to be fancy (again) and use black powder coated SS line with AN fittings.  All 4 lines will join and route to the surge tank in the rear ABS area.  It is by far the highest point as well.  Thanks for the advice earlier on this guys.

Assembling a line
(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150119_104802_zpshgqdd6pm.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150119_104802_zpshgqdd6pm.jpg.html)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150119_132505_zpsisqu79js.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150119_132505_zpsisqu79js.jpg.html)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150119_124446_zps6frik1bb.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150119_124446_zps6frik1bb.jpg.html)


(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150119_124457_zpspoofhkvg.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150119_124457_zpspoofhkvg.jpg.html)


The Rear line
(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150119_142758_zpsffp9ptsx.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150119_142758_zpsffp9ptsx.jpg.html)


RADIATOR KIT


I figured it was time to go ahead and bolt her up.  I used rubber washers under each bolt to help save the paint, it seems to work well.  The radiator hoses will go on soon also.  I installed some of Halfspec's A/C line kit so I could button up the top side as well.  I am still figuring out exactly what to do with my intake pipe.  I have the normal pipe on hand but I am considering something different.  I will update soon...

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150119_165240_zpsdywk58tq.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150119_165240_zpsdywk58tq.jpg.html)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150119_183433_zpsfgrglxxl.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150119_183433_zpsfgrglxxl.jpg.html)

AS SHE SITS :D :D :D
(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150119_183616_zpsdodu5yxa.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150119_183616_zpsdodu5yxa.jpg.html)
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: wickedrx7 on January 19, 2015, 10:53:11 PM
Your bolts are silver...
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: Stage7 on January 19, 2015, 11:25:29 PM
Super clean! 
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: mefarri on January 19, 2015, 11:39:06 PM
Gorgeous.  What paint are you using for the satin black stuff?  Also, if you want to sell the samberg intake pipe, let me know.
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on January 20, 2015, 12:32:15 AM
Your bolts are silver...

I am well aware ;).   I plan to order up some anodized hardware for a few particular locations.  Some bolts will be left silver, and others will get hand painted.  Model paint works very well and withstands the heat as it has a lot of hardener.
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: jessethedrifter on January 20, 2015, 12:35:03 AM
Soo much shiny 8)
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on January 20, 2015, 12:45:47 AM
Gorgeous.  What paint are you using for the satin black stuff?  Also, if you want to sell the samberg intake pipe, let me know.

Thanks!  I am using Dupicolor 500 deg engine paint Low Gloss.  I have used it before and it really is good stuff.  The key is to let it completely cure; around 7 days.  Gotta be careful with it until then.  Even after a few heat cycles it seems to get tougher.  I have banged a hammer off of it with no damage.

I will let you know on the intake pipe.

If anyone knows where to find a 4" 45 degree coupler with a 6" leg please fill me in.  For some reason it's like tracking a unicorn. 
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: mefarri on January 20, 2015, 12:56:43 AM
I got fiiiiiive on it.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/TOG-4-INCH-102-MM-45-DEGREE-SILICONE-HOSE-BEND-ELBOW-BLACK-152MM-LONG-TURBO-/121208073335?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1c38906c77 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/TOG-4-INCH-102-MM-45-DEGREE-SILICONE-HOSE-BEND-ELBOW-BLACK-152MM-LONG-TURBO-/121208073335?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1c38906c77)

Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: Mik3ymomo on January 20, 2015, 06:52:48 AM
What's slowing down the progress? Nothing!

(http://i.imgur.com/R3LZZkK.gif)
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: digitalsolo on January 20, 2015, 09:27:55 AM
I like the silver bolts in some places;   too much black loses contrast and makes it look like someone just spraybombed everything.
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: bikedad on January 20, 2015, 09:50:18 AM
Gorgeous.  What paint are you using for the satin black stuff?  Also, if you want to sell the samberg intake pipe, let me know.

Thanks!  I am using Dupicolor 500 deg engine paint Low Gloss.  I have used it before and it really is good stuff.  The key is to let it completely cure; around 7 days.  Gotta be careful with it until then.  Even after a few heat cycles it seems to get tougher.  I have banged a hammer off of it with no damage.

I will let you know on the intake pipe.

If anyone knows where to find a 4" 45 degree coupler with a 6" leg please fill me in.  For some reason it's like tracking a unicorn. 

That's the same paint I used. The low gloss is great also. It doesn't detract from everything you want to showcase.
So far it's held up fantastic. I drove the car all summer and it still looks perfect. Even after running the car on a road course and getting it heated. No cracking or peeling.
One other key (for anyone painting their block) is to make sure it's completely de-greased. I also primed it. I used the Duplicolor 500 degree engine primer.

BTW, your car looks beautiful! Drool worthy.  ;)
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: digital_hoon on January 20, 2015, 10:02:43 AM
Coming along great, as usual. I can only imagine how excited you are to finally hear this thing start up!
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: mefarri on January 20, 2015, 10:29:26 AM
I like the silver bolts in some places;   too much black loses contrast and makes it look like someone just spraybombed everything.

That's one thing that always bugs me when I see Foose paint assembled engines.  Just blasting everything at the same time.  What happens when you have to remove something?  Leaves ugly witness lines where you had to tear it to remove the part.
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on January 20, 2015, 12:10:04 PM
Thanks for the link!! Ordering now :)

I agree on the marks.  I have to go back over my valley cover bolts as there was no way around it when using the valley lift plate.  And I do agree with some bolts staying silver as it does break up the black in particular areas.  My accessory bolts for example will remain untouched.

I also use the 500 deg primer and it has yielded good results.

I am very stoked to see it start and to drive it!  But, I have to be patient and make sure I tackle every job with utmost quality, visual flow and durability in mind.  It's one of the hardest parts I think.  I have to throttle back and not find work arounds if I am missing a particular part.

Thanks for the comments guys!  Always feels good to put together a setup and get kudos, especially from this crowd.  I'm not out of the weeds yet, but things are coming together well.
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: AKINA FC on January 20, 2015, 06:05:25 PM
Looking real good.  :cheers:
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: FC3S Murray on January 20, 2015, 08:11:51 PM
Outstanding attention to detail bud! Well played Sir, well played!!
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: FC3S Murray on January 22, 2015, 09:16:33 PM
Soooooooo what's new? :)
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: Classy on January 22, 2015, 09:18:24 PM
I still think the burn out video is about a week late
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on January 23, 2015, 01:34:45 PM
I do have a day job. ;)

My MSD supplies arrived.  My coil brackets and harness extensions should be on their way.  Things are looking a little tight but I am confident I can mount them on the front lower rails without much issue.

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150121_191753_zpsettcnfot.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150121_191753_zpsettcnfot.jpg.html)

I am going to try running an all silicone intake pipe.  For me, it looks cleaner then the linked metal 45 elbow and I do not require a MAF with the Holley.  My only task is to mount the IAT either in the coupler or in the intake manifold.  I am considering drilling the manifold as I have seen quite a few Vette guys do it.  I have a few options.
Elbow on order.

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/T2eC16NHJH4FHdBdgr8BSdwNgnh6w60_3_zpsusukp8hj.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/T2eC16NHJH4FHdBdgr8BSdwNgnh6w60_3_zpsusukp8hj.jpg.html)
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: FC3S Murray on January 24, 2015, 12:32:40 AM
I do have a day job. ;)

Whatever!...... You know you have some leave to burn up :). Heck that is how I built my FC, ended up taking a total of 12 days annual leave (military technician).

On another note, I really don't have any knowledge pertaining to this but is that coupler at any risk of collapsing (even compressing slightly) under WOT?
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: wickedrx7 on January 24, 2015, 12:57:08 PM
Maybe I missed it but where are you mounting the coils?
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on January 24, 2015, 11:17:10 PM
Ugh... hopefully soon.   I am teaching back to back classes and I'm the only one qualified on our advanced networking course (CCNP).  On a good note, I have like 60 days of leave so I will have "use or loose". 

On the elbow, it's 4 ply.  I see no chance of it collapsing.

With the coils, they will go on the lower front frame rails.  The drivers side is a cake walk, the passenger side is....busy.  They will fit on the very bottom if needed.  If I do that, I will likely build a sheet metal shield around it. 
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: Gunnytron on January 25, 2015, 03:41:48 AM
Lovely looking build  8)

One thing though, are you not bothered that Holley say not to mount their sensors on the engine?
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on January 25, 2015, 05:08:28 PM
Lovely looking build  8)

One thing though, are you not bothered that Holley say not to mount their sensors on the engine?

Thanks.  Yeah, I saw that after the fact.  Honestly, I am not too worried about it.  Many manufacturers put their "disclaimer" out there mostly to reduce the battle of warranty returns.  If it shits the bed, I will run a remote line from the current location.  I debated even using it since my Mazda sensor will give me visibility of oil pressure.  However, it is something that I do want to log as well as add fail-safes to.
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on January 25, 2015, 10:43:09 PM
Steam Ports...Take 2.

Well, I completed my steam port lines today and I am happy with how they turned out.  One last line to run to the surge tank but it will be SS braided.  I want to keep the play of a flexible line from the engine to the body for vibration.  It should be here soon.

I am pretty pleased with how it turned out.  I can even take the intake on and off without disconnecting them.

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150125_123531_zpsyjlwz5dw.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150125_123531_zpsyjlwz5dw.jpg.html)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150125_123217_zpstedp4mkb.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150125_123217_zpstedp4mkb.jpg.html)

A/C and Coolant Lines

I got Halfspec's A/C line kit installed as well.  The wiring portion has been in place for awhile, as I was pre-wiring it with my Holley ECU.  The relay is mounted down where it's designed to go in the ECU pocket on the passenger footwell.  The lines went in easily with pretty much no issues.  Halfspec's instructions are easy to follow and spot on.  I did deviate a little from his drier mounting.  I made a bracket and moved it a few inches closer to the wheel.  This made the lines align a little nicer for running them back to that cluster on the firewall.

For the heater core I used the standard Gates coolant lines that most folks use.  I put the DEI sleeving on them to help keep the protection up.  If I were building a car from the ground up, I would definitely relocate those firewall outputs for the heater core.  It all sits very close to the exhaust and there just isn't a need for it.  In any case, what I did should work well.

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150124_192905_zpswj4k3gno.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150124_192905_zpswj4k3gno.jpg.html)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150124_192854_zpswxqcugdc.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150124_192854_zpswxqcugdc.jpg.html)

Elite Engineering Catch Can


After some searching I read nothing but great things about these cans.  Their customer service is also excellent!  I asked for a spare spacer and bolt (that I didn't end up using) and they didn't hesitate to send it to me.  I chose to mount it on the passenger head.  I am not completely satisfied with the "mounting" I have in place.  I will likely change it and bring it closer to the center of the head.  I think it will look cleaner and make the hose runs more straightforward.  But for now, it's in place.  I used silicone hose because it's easy to work with.  I had some spare -4AN pushlocks from my dual wastegate rotary madness setup so I figured I better use them.  I am feeding fresh air using the throttle body feed on the passenger side.  Dirty air feed from the rear port on the drivers cover, and fresh air is fed back into the manifold on that side as well.  The passenger side port is capped for now, but it is likely getting clipped, drilled and tapped to put my IAT sensor in that very place.

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150124_135849_zpssoaiv8mo.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150124_135849_zpssoaiv8mo.jpg.html)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150124_193143_zpsnb8yiodc.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150124_193143_zpsnb8yiodc.jpg.html)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150124_193159_zpsuqqbsfvn.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150124_193159_zpsuqqbsfvn.jpg.html)

Coil Madness!!

Well, I looked everything over really well and I don't have a lot of options.  I was really hoping the coils would fit on the bottom passenger frame rail but there is just too much going on down there.  It's mostly the radiator hose that is getting me.  The drivers side is money.  I have been flirting with the idea below.  Some may think it's a "dangerous" location but I don't think it's too bad, especially for what I use my car for. 

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150125_135413_zpsdp1z5ehu.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150125_135413_zpsdp1z5ehu.jpg.html)

The bracket is just mocked up and not permanent.  There are some obvious issues with putting them here and I have thought about each one.  I gladly will take input from you gentlemen.

- Wire length - Pretty much a non-issue in my mind.  The added resistance of the length doesn't seem to be a problem on high HP setups. 

- Water - Well, I don't daily drive my car, or drive it in the rain.  BUT, there are those occasions when I may of course get got in a down poor.  Deep standing water or whatnot could pose an issue.  For the most part, coils are water proof.  They have a weather pack connector on the backside and the plug wire is sealed quite well with a quality boot and dielectric grease.  The only real issue would be if the coil was submerged.  If water is that high, I have bigger problems.

- Road debris - I plan to build a sheet metal plate that surrounds the coil on both the front and bottom sides to protect the coils from road debris.  Honestly, I don't see alot of debris really getting to them, but they would be protected nonetheless.  This plate will also have a second piece run the length of the rail guiding my wires past the A/C compressor and then up to the plugs under the header.  One picture I didn't take was how the coils are exposed from the front bumper opening.  You can see them on the two smaller inlets at the very edge of the hole.  This is where the front plate will come in. 

- Permanence - It isn't.  If this just doesn't work the way I want than it's a easy to change.  I can slap on a set of Holley valve covers, mount the coils on there, and be done. 
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: Ryan23 on January 26, 2015, 07:58:58 AM
Why not put the IAT sensor in the middle of the 4 ply silicon connector? If you mount it at the bottom it will be all but out of sight. That's where I've got mine mounted. I think that's probably the best spot to get an honest sample of air temp. Someone asked about the coupler....there is literally zero chance of collapsing that intake hose, watched mine MANY times on the dyno =). On my setup (Hinson) the hood does push on the coupler a just little though (90mm TB).

I'd go with your coil mount solution. Yeah, the ignition wires may be a bit longer but it will look nicer. I don't recall your cam specs, IIRC they were similar to mine... With that said, if you were ever to go back to coil-on-cover, skip the Holley set. Regardless of what it says on the box, my LS7 OEM rockers fouled on the bottom :/ I ended up returning them to Summit.

Ryan     
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on January 26, 2015, 09:25:19 AM
Why not put the IAT sensor in the middle of the 4 ply silicon connector? If you mount it at the bottom it will be all but out of sight. That's where I've got mine mounted. I think that's probably the best spot to get an honest sample of air temp. Someone asked about the coupler....there is literally zero chance of collapsing that intake hose, watched mine MANY times on the dyno =). On my setup (Hinson) the hood does push on the coupler a just little though (90mm TB).

I'd go with your coil mount solution. Yeah, the ignition wires may be a bit longer but it will look nicer. I don't recall your cam specs, IIRC they were similar to mine... With that said, if you were ever to go back to coil-on-cover, skip the Holley set. Regardless of what it says on the box, my LS7 OEM rockers fouled on the bottom :/ I ended up returning them to Summit.

Ryan   

I am going back and fourth with IAT placement.  I have the Holley threaded IAT.  In the silicone coupler it would probably be fine, but definitely requires more of a hole then the OEM plug type.  I could also put a thin nut with loctite on the inside to lock it in place, but it just seems unnecessarily risky.  The thought of even a remote chance of my engine injesting a piece of metal is terrifying.   The manifold works well from what I have read.  It's solid, screws into place, and isn't going anywhere.  The only downside I could see is the possibility of heat soak.  Given the location,  I don't think there would alot of variation.

As for the coils, thanks for the vote of confidence.  ;). 
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: FC3S Murray on January 26, 2015, 11:12:01 PM
I placed my IAT sensor in my silicon elbow. Just drill a hole slightly smaller then the diameter of your sensor. The GM sensor had a lip on it and it literally "snapped" right into my coupler. If yours is threaded then great, the threads will act as "teeth" and ensure a good bite in the coupler. Mine is 4 ply too and it holds that sensor in SNUG. Being super OCD I also put a small bead of black rtv on the underside of the sensor lip to seal it even more. Works great. RTV will hold it in placd....Its not like it is gonna push out or vibrate out. It would be out of sight, out of mind on your set up :)
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on February 01, 2015, 09:06:28 PM
Coil Relocation

The coil relocation went well.  The wires were a pain to work with at first, but I got it squared away.  Most of it really was dealing with the boots.  The wires ran really clean and overall I am very pleased with it.  I made a little video on how to build the wires for those who may do it in the future.  I haven't made the coil shields yet, but it's on the list.

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150129_114806_zpsdli0sxpn.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150129_114806_zpsdli0sxpn.jpg.html)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150129_115242_zpsmoxfu90l.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150129_115242_zpsmoxfu90l.jpg.html)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150129_144156_zpsg70fxvhn.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150129_144156_zpsg70fxvhn.jpg.html)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150129_144205_zps0pqva6qn.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150129_144205_zps0pqva6qn.jpg.html)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150129_144300_zpsgi6krhb7.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150129_144300_zpsgi6krhb7.jpg.html)

How To: MSD custom wires
http://youtu.be/ch1_r7c9XJ4 (http://youtu.be/ch1_r7c9XJ4)

Mazda Oil Pressure

I tapped the OFAC above the oil filter for my Mazda oil pressure sensor.  I used a remote SS braided line to move it forward away from the headers.  It's all very tight in there.  The fitting taps to a 1/8npt perfectly.  I literally just had to drill past the closed end.  Easy.

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150128_091409_zps2q1abjmx.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150128_091409_zps2q1abjmx.jpg.html)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150128_092845_zpsoxojjjzd.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150128_092845_zpsoxojjjzd.jpg.html)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150128_094329_zpsuwrf0mnl.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150128_094329_zpsuwrf0mnl.jpg.html)
 
Clutch Bleed

Gotta admit I was a little nervous about this one.  If anything was weird, dropping the tranny would be needed and I just wasn't looking forward to that possibility.  BUT, it bled like a champ.  I used Blake's method with the MightyVac and it worked like a charm!  I didn't open a bleeder once!!  Again, I made a video of the process, the link that DigitalSolo explains his method is also below.

http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=17322.0 (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=17322.0)

http://youtu.be/J5CXYizgC8k (http://youtu.be/J5CXYizgC8k)

Shift Panel

I jumped on this band wagon!  I had to modify it slightly since my shifter throws back so far, but after a little cutting disc work, it fit perfectly!

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150129_150006_zpspnoniges.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150129_150006_zpspnoniges.jpg.html)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150130_144938_zps2ag6t04t.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150130_144938_zps2ag6t04t.jpg.html)

IAT Relocation

I decided to go with the IAT in the manifold.  I drilled the whole, and it essentially tapped itself.  I used some teflon and she is snug as a bug.

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150130_091727_zpsgkhqqgdr.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150130_091727_zpsgkhqqgdr.jpg.html)

Starter Shield

I have heard it's important to put something in place to protect the starter.  After seeing how close she sits to the header, I can see how it just gets baked to death.  I used a 8x14" Heat Shield Products bendable shield that I had left over.  It actually comes up to cover the Crank Sensor as well, which worked nicely.  I used a few exhaust clips to hold it in place.  I was careful with the starter and solenoid wire so close.  We don't want any inadvertent arcing.

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150201_141132_zpsswo5zmdw.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150201_141132_zpsswo5zmdw.jpg.html)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150201_141143_zpsqnroybqc.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150201_141143_zpsqnroybqc.jpg.html)

Bay Wiring

Wiring up the Holley harness on the engine side went pretty well.  Holley gives you plenty of meat to work with so overall I spent most of my time figuring out what to do with the extra length.  I did have to modify the harness in a few places.  I added heat sleeving under the black sleeve in a few places where the harness would cross the header's path.  Coil relocation caused me to separate the plug from the main harness and bring it back.  Remember, it's designed for a factory car so the plugs sit where the top of the heads would be.  I also had to tap into the 5v power and ground for the GM pressure switch I am using in my A/C system.  Holley specifically says their sensors have no  issues sharing so that was straight forward.  It mostly just took time to route everything cleanly.  I was covering everything up, and I masked my valve covers just to be safe.  One thing about shiny stuff, it scratches easy.  Oh, and the intake came off again, likely 30 times since I started...lol.

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150131_075454_zpsklrq0o4b.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150131_075454_zpsklrq0o4b.jpg.html)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150131_093449_zpsgobrw6go.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150131_093449_zpsgobrw6go.jpg.html)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150131_104132_zpseibcaycq.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150131_104132_zpseibcaycq.jpg.html)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150131_115801_zps7dmqwdut.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150131_115801_zps7dmqwdut.jpg.html)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150131_132313_zpsroxng5tz.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150131_132313_zpsroxng5tz.jpg.html)

Ready to START!?!?!?

Actually, it is.  The ECU has power, the engine wiring is complete, and all fluids are full.  I filled her up with 5 gallons of 93 in there, and tested the fuel system; not a single leak.  I have to admit, I was impressed.  All of the plumbing from rear to front was solid.   There are still a few things to wrap up such as all the wiring from the "X-14" connector (reverse lights, Mazda temp sensor, Digital Dakota), but that will have to wait until I get the pigtail.  All of the wiring for the ECU is hanging out.  The interior is still apart but the carpet is back in place.  I need to power up the ECU, and go through the map adding my custom I/O's.

Next weekend I will fire this thing up!!  And start my exhaust fabrication.
  8) 8)  :cheers:

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150201_150734_zps2op5fltp.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150201_150734_zps2op5fltp.jpg.html)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150201_162955_zps5utdrb3l.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150201_162955_zps5utdrb3l.jpg.html)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150201_162504_zpsgfw1cera.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150201_162504_zpsgfw1cera.jpg.html)
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: wickedrx7 on February 01, 2015, 09:14:22 PM
Coil relocation makes it sooo clean.  Lookin great!
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: FC3S Murray on February 01, 2015, 09:41:09 PM
So so so very close! Everything looks superb man, great job. Thanks for the mightyvac vid too, I am sure new members will appreciate that!
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: Sho Amo on February 01, 2015, 10:18:54 PM
Everything on this car can be described in two words.

Clean, subtle.
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: halfspec on February 01, 2015, 10:30:48 PM
Wow. Very impressive Josh. I see you need X-14...


So. Where am I sending this?  :yay:

(http://www.halfspec.com/pictures/IMG_20150201_212038985_zpsjoabuhzd.jpg)

msg me if you want it.

Lane
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: quinns on February 01, 2015, 11:21:09 PM
Lots of awesome things going on here.

That clutch bleed video needs its own post and a sticky. Still blows my mind that it works hahaha.

I think he needs a new lid for his MC too  :P

Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: Classy on February 02, 2015, 07:37:49 AM
I actually really like the elbow for the intake that way, it looks alot cleaner
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on February 03, 2015, 08:02:48 PM
Thanks everyone!  It's definitely coming along nicely, and overall I am very pleased.  BUT, the proof is in the pudding.  Once she is ripping down the road with no leaks, squeaks, or grinds, I will be super happy! 8)  :bacon:

I just fixed the "MSD Wire How To" video, it was set to private, so it should be viewable now.

I received a few more goodies in the mail! :)

Firstly, THANK YOU Lane!  He sent me the much needed X-14 pigtail with a quickness!!  I will wrap up my wiring this weekend.  :cheers:

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150203_182255_zpsycff0d7b.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150203_182255_zpsycff0d7b.jpg.html)


My ARP intake manifold bolts came.  I had the stockers, but the ARP are such nice quality and their black. Looks like I can torque down the intake for good. ;)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150203_182240_zpsfvnsonpd.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150203_182240_zpsfvnsonpd.jpg.html)


I also received my Lokar dip stick.  I wasn't sure how to go about using the stock one, so I created two solutions.  I had the OEM FBody and I simply put the tube in a bender and put some angle on it.  I also hit that yellow tip with some satin black.  It doesn't look bad, but I don't like things interfering visually with my baller ass valve covers.  So, I ordered the Lokar.  I have heard good and bad so we will see how it does.  I will measure levels and ensure it is accurate. 

On a side note, I didn't really touch on this before, but I ended up using the Mazda throttle cable.  I purchased the Fbody non-TC cable but it just didn't fit as well with the firewall.  Also, because it was shorter there was less flexability with routing.  The OEM Mazda cable is a little longer and allowed me to snake it through the rear of the firewall without putting alot of stress on it.  The Holley TB bracket allows for quite a bit of adjustment so I can peg my to butterflys to WOT with no issues.  One last feature was using the Mazda cables plastic holder clip.  I had the little OEM mounting bracket from the rotary setup and just chopped it down to a lower profile.  This will guide the cable nicely across the intake.  You can see from the picture that plastic push nub is hanging.  Now that I have my ARP hardware, I can mount it in place as well.  It's the little things. ;) :drive:


And yes, those injector wires are getting depinned, and sheeth'd with black shrink sleeving.  I may hit those connectors with something too. :secret:

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150203_182204_zps4cvyenwn.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150203_182204_zps4cvyenwn.jpg.html)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150203_182222_zpsketdi5kz.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150203_182222_zpsketdi5kz.jpg.html)
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: halfspec on February 03, 2015, 09:59:44 PM
Whoah! USPS didn't fool around with delivering your package :D

Now. Please continue to entertain us with this most excellent build  :cheers:

Lane
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: largeorangefont on February 03, 2015, 10:12:24 PM
Pro Tip- Don't check your oil when the car is hot with the Lokar dipstick.
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: AKINA FC on February 03, 2015, 10:23:17 PM
Looks great so far! A+
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: Chigliakus on February 04, 2015, 09:42:06 PM
Pro Tip- Don't check your oil when the car is hot with the Lokar dipstick.

This!  I bent the crap out of my factory dipstick in a fit of rage during engine install so I ordered the lokar.  The part you handle sits right between the header tubes and gets really hot, and has enough mass to stay that way!
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: GTR on February 05, 2015, 10:52:15 PM
Awesome. Build.  :D
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: Ruler_Mark on February 06, 2015, 01:35:40 AM
are we there yet
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: Mik3ymomo on February 06, 2015, 09:25:42 AM
From what I have heard this car is quickly coming together!

If you need some Adderall Josh, just ask ;)
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: halfspec on February 08, 2015, 10:27:47 PM
Looking forward to this weeks update  :D

Lane
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on February 09, 2015, 02:50:47 PM
Exhaust

I figured I would need to tackle this sooner or later, so I opted for sooner.  With the first startup right around the corner, I thought it would be nice to hear the sweet sound of my actual exhaust as opposed to open headers.  Especially waiting for the thermostat to open, and confirm my fans are doing what they should be.

As many of you know, I have had the pleasure of starting with Kevin Doe's dual exhaust, purchased from Mr. Halfspec himself. ;)
Below is the modification and fitment of the process.


Firstly, this is what I was starting with.

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/409_zpsi7bybq5q.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/409_zpsi7bybq5q.jpg.html)

As Lane mentioned, and I previously stated, this bad boy is loud.  With the true-X in place and barely any muffling coming from the straight through rear mufflers, it just wasn't going to be enough for a "semi-civil" street car.  I opted to add a Magnaflow X-flow muffler 3" in/out in hopes that it would tame it down a little.  I also had to modify the front section for it to mate to my Spoolin headers.  But first, I need to chop off the old X and put in the manifold.  Manifold fitted in place.

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150207_102832_zpsnio79p1x.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150207_102832_zpsnio79p1x.jpg.html)

From there, it was a series of test fitting mandrel angles and tacking them into place.  I had to duck the Samberg transmission mount with my angles so that is why it swoops a little.  I also had to drop the center section (muffler) enough to clear the driveshaft.

I realize my welding skills aren't amazing.  The welds weren't pretty by any means, but they are strong.  I opted to use 309ss flux wire.  I chose this as it eliminated the need for back purging and it was easy to order up and get moving. 


(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150207_145035_zpsfjhnawe6.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150207_145035_zpsfjhnawe6.jpg.html)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150207_160147_zpsnglbhulc.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150207_160147_zpsnglbhulc.jpg.html)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150207_193259_zpsqz30utzl.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150207_193259_zpsqz30utzl.jpg.html)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150207_195547_zpsfe7ucdtz.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150207_195547_zpsfe7ucdtz.jpg.html)

Bolted into place, and ready to rock.  The middle hangers will be added to the Samberg cradle next weekend when I get some material.  Overall, I am happy with it.  It seems a little low but camera angles play tricks.  I will see how it looks once it's on the ground.  I got it as tight as possible around the rear subframe without it constantly banging against anything from movement.  I have a few extra inches above the muffler before it hits the driveshaft, but again, I didn't want it to be too close.  Overall, I am pleased with it.

If it is too low or needs modified, then I will drop her down and fix it.  Gives me a reason to play with my welder some more.  :yay:


(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150207_203501_zpsgkus6fqm.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150207_203501_zpsgkus6fqm.jpg.html)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150207_203421_zpsk2dpvsxm.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150207_203421_zpsk2dpvsxm.jpg.html)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150207_203658_zpsyrideilb.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150207_203658_zpsyrideilb.jpg.html)


Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: halfspec on February 10, 2015, 09:06:10 AM
(http://cdn.overclock.net/0/06/06f1a917_amazing_meme.jpeg)

You've done exactly what I would have done had I kept the exhaust. I'm sure it will sound amazing :D

Great work!
Lane
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on February 10, 2015, 09:22:48 AM
Thanks bro!  I have been looking over pics of when it was on your car trying to compare how low it will be.  Looks like about 3" from the bottom of the car.  I am worried I didn't tuck it up enough at the center.  I know the rear is low, and that is unavoidable, but we'll see.

I am drafting a post and video of first startup.   It ran, for a second....  I should be driving it this weekend, tentatively.
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: Speedfab on February 10, 2015, 10:50:45 AM
I remember when the guy was building that exhaust, I thought "that has to be some kind of record for most weld joints in a single exhaust that doesn't have a bunch of 'pie cut' stupidity in it."  Now you've upped the ante.  LOL
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: Mik3ymomo on February 12, 2015, 06:55:37 AM
(https://31.media.tumblr.com/bca4e65d77b2814271fe658f089f1e06/tumblr_inline_mp6mukUy3B1qz4rgp.gif)
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on February 13, 2015, 09:38:32 PM
Yep, sure am :D

Well, after troubleshooting all day, I am at the following point.  Starts every time when I hold the pedal down.  Takes off but runs rougher than a night in jail.  I have to feather the throttle to keep it going but it eventually dies.  Sounds mean as shit btw!!

2.  All header pipes get hot, so they are firing.  I traced every coil trigger back to it's respective ECU pin, all are in the right order, and all have continuity.  I also traced every injector to each ECU pin.  Again, correct order and proper cylinders.

3.  Looked over my map and confirmed everything looks right.  Considering the dyno had it purring, everything should be right.  It looked all in order.

4.  Performed a data log while brief running.  All sensors seem to be pulling data.  ECU has power during crank, and I have RPM input from crank sensor.

5.  Alternator only charging 12v.  I figured I would have this issue with LS1 accessories.  I have the resistor harness from Holley on order and it will be here tomorrow.  NOW, the real question is, will only having 12v make it run that rough?  This is all I got left since I have eliminated most everything else.

6.  I plan to pick up a spare set of plugs tomorrow.  I didn't pull each plug and hold it to the block to verify they all had spark.  I may put a fresh set in, just to cover the bases.

Thoughts on only having 12v pushed through the alternator causing it to run so rough???

Thanks guys!  Getting close!
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: wickedrx7 on February 13, 2015, 10:35:36 PM
Might be too simple but do you have coolant sensor? 12v shouldn't make it run that bad but if you have alternator pluged in without resister, it will fry it. Do the self excite mod (search danzan, self excite).
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: Supe on February 13, 2015, 10:40:30 PM
You say the header pipes get hot... how hot?  Glowing hot, or just normal hot?
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: Supe on February 13, 2015, 10:42:07 PM
And a legit 12v will not make it run like shit, at least not until high RPMs.  Hell, I went 6.30's in the 1/8 mile some time back with 10v going to the MSD box  :D
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on February 14, 2015, 09:38:17 AM
Might be too simple but do you have coolant sensor? 12v shouldn't make it run that bad but if you have alternator pluged in without resister, it will fry it. Do the self excite mod (search danzan, self excite).

Yes, I am running a coolant temp sensor in the drivers head.  It reads properly.  All sensors seem to be reading properly from the data log.  There isn't an individual input for crank or cam sensors, but I assume the crank sensor input should just be RPM.

You say the header pipes get hot... how hot?  Glowing hot, or just normal hot?

Normal hot.  Honestly, really warm since I can only keep it running for 5-10 seconds at a time. 

Other possibilities....

1.  I updated the software and firmware from V2 to V3 when I first got it.  Proooobably should have waited on that but it's done.  I have been getting a warning that the "inductive delay" is a value higher than 50, which is odd since you can't modify it with the ignition type set to 58x.  The Holley tech told me to ignore it.  However, I relocated my coils, in turn the inductive delay would be different from a coil on head setup.  Furthermore, the manual specifically says it can cause issues, which makes sense.  The number needs to accurately reflect the delay in wiring from ECU trigger instance to coil fire.

2.  My builder mentioned as an FYI that the only sensor that wasn't tested was the Crank Sensor.  He said that the shop provided one during the dyno as his was faulty.  He put a used one in there for me but wanted me to know that wasn't the one that was used during the session.  I am getting RPM input, but I ordered a new one anyway.  I'm picking it up today.

3.  Alternator should be sorted today as well.  With the alternator not charging, I have seen 11.6v on a running car.  Alternator was going bad.  BUT, I'm not sure how the LS1 alternator does business.  What I really need is the amps, and if it isn't putting those out, then the car is essentially running off the battery.  I am hopeful.

Thanks again guys! 
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: zbrown on February 14, 2015, 10:20:25 AM
Send me your data log and global folder

Zacbrown1307@gmail.com
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on February 14, 2015, 12:45:10 PM
Send me your data log and global folder

Zacbrown1307@gmail.com

On it.  Thank you Sir. :)

Excite wire given voltage, alternator throwing out 14v.  Still richer than Donald Trump and rough as hell.
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: zbrown on February 14, 2015, 01:02:03 PM
I'll have a look when I get home

So just to clear everything up

The engine is 58x crank trigger and you are running  4x or 1x front cam sprocket?

What harness are you using? Is it the ls2 harness or ls1 holley harness, or your own?

Is this the same harness and ecu the engine was dynoed with or did they use their own?

This is their global folder I assume regardless?

Also there is a trigger diagnostic for the can and crank where you can view the output
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on February 14, 2015, 04:00:50 PM
I'll have a look when I get home

So just to clear everything up

The engine is 58x crank trigger and you are running  4x or 1x front cam sprocket?

What harness are you using? Is it the ls2 harness or ls1 holley harness, or your own?

Is this the same harness and ecu the engine was dynoed with or did they use their own?

This is their global folder I assume regardless?

Also there is a trigger diagnostic for the can and crank where you can view the output

Yes, 58x.  Cam sprocket should be 4x

This is LS2/3 harness.  And yes, they used it during the dyno.  I made 2 modifications.  Tapped 5v ground, and pos for GM A/C pressure sensor.  Secondly, I had to extend the loose ground wires for the ignition plugs (odd and even) so I could ground them on the head.

Yes, I sent you the global folder.

I will send a second email. One with a Type1 data log for diagnosing cam and crank (diag# 6, 7), and a system log.  The system log actually has the inputs the ecu is seeing from the sensors.

Thanks again!
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on February 17, 2015, 12:18:35 AM
The Real Beginning...

Well gentlemen, it starts, runs, and drives.  We are working to get it idling lower than 1100rpm without surging and dying.  BUT, it's getting there.  First and foremost, I want to thank ZBrown for his time and effort.  After chasing my tail for a day and a half, he looked over my map and saw that she was mega rich down low.  No wonder it seamed like it was missing, it was drowning in fuel.  The only issue I had with my setup was the coil harness was backwards on the even bank.  I identified that in my search for answers.  After quite a bit of sending logs, modifying, sending logs, modifying, we got it really close.  I took the maiden voyage today and it felt great.  Quite a few things still need addressed, but I can say that it runs, drives, and we are moving forward.  :cheers: :bacon: :bacon:

When I first started troubleshooting, I immediately noticed I needed a bigger battery.  The Wesco Miata battery I have been using for the past 5 years just wasn't cutting it.  It became apparent when I was cranking it for 4-5 tries, and it would die.  I went and bought a new Optima Red Top with 800cca.  She did the trick!  Nice to have a battery that just keeps going!  Of course, it wasn't going to fit in the storage bin so I had to "modify" it. 

She was just getting me by in the first picture...lol


(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150215_104303_zpsm4lj7bpp.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150215_104303_zpsm4lj7bpp.jpg.html)
(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150216_120628_zpsznepxiqv.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150216_120628_zpsznepxiqv.jpg.html)
(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150216_120618_zps0aksq8we.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150216_120618_zps0aksq8we.jpg.html)

Once we got it started it was nice to see that I had ZERO leaks of any kind.  I was pretty surprised.  I was especially worried about the heater core pipes that I had issues sealing last time.  Turns out, it was just the dents in the pipes.  This time around I added Indian Head shellac to all coolant hoses.  Worked like a champ.  After we got the tune headed in the right direction and started trying to get it to idle, I figured it was time to assemble and clean the interior.  I was working at it between sending ZBrown logs, trying his map, and sending more logs...lol.  Holy crap it was nice to put the seats back in.  The only thing I left out was the glovebox.  My Dakota Digital is mounted back there so I will need to set it up yet.

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150216_132949_zps0eey5zwj.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150216_132949_zps0eey5zwj.jpg.html)
(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150216_132959_zpsye0tjncm.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150216_132959_zpsye0tjncm.jpg.html)
(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150216_132934_zpswhiwxiba.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150216_132934_zpswhiwxiba.jpg.html)

Maiden Voyage

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150216_152830_zpsuc8r2g7z.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150216_152830_zpsuc8r2g7z.jpg.html)

http://youtu.be/qg8yAjt4bts (http://youtu.be/qg8yAjt4bts)

I snapped this picture and took this video right after I returned.  I took it a few miles down the road to a local corner store.  I was really low on gas so I figured it would be cool to go put a few gallons in it.  No leaks or weirdness.  The Holley was changing the low end transitions very well.  I could feel some slight hesitations during shifting and then they would disappear and it would clear up.  My learn table populated a fair amount even from the short drive.  I am really happy with the progress.  But there is still some things to work out.

1.  Exhaust needs redone.  My center muffler sits about 2" off the ground.  An obvious oversight in my first exhaust modification attempt.  That is the first order of business.

2.  Get the idle sorted.  Obviously it's a pain to drive around with it surging and dying so once we get it steady, more driving can happen.

3.  Oil change and plug change.  After a day of many very rich attempts, I think it would be good to get fresh oil in there and start with another set of fresh plugs.

4.  Check differential.  My Cobra diff is a stocker with 39k out of a known good car.  I noticed at around 40mph and above it started humming pretty good.  I want to get under it to make sure everything looks good.  When I was filling it, most of my friction modifier came out.  Oversight on my part with the fill tube.  I will probably add another pint and keep an eye on it.  Everything looked good when I had the cover off, but we will see.

5.  Alignment.  It needs one...bad.  Rear and front are both out.

6.  Dakota Digital programming.

7.  Hood fitment.  Still not sure if the Mazdaspeed hood will fit, but I am about to find out.

Oh, did I mention that life is good.  :drive: :halo: :drive:
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: Ruler_Mark on February 17, 2015, 03:09:30 AM
niiice
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: Classy on February 17, 2015, 07:56:36 AM
Getting very close to being finished, I like the exhaust, not too loud but just enough.  I bet it will sound great in the upper RPM's
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: halfspec on February 17, 2015, 09:57:07 AM
Looking great Josh! I feel your pain with the tune issues. 4 years after getting mine started, I'm still in a similar idle situation where I have to feather it to keep from surging / stalling. Hoping that a full dyno tune can weed that out though.
Exhaust sounds fantastic. Strong :)

From the outside looking in, it seems like y'all are getting your symptoms under control but I'm curious if y'all have discovered or suspect any smoking guns yet? It's bizarre to me that your builder's tune would run so differently unless one of your supporting inputs/outputs was drastically different. Did they tune it with the injectors that are on it now? What rail pressure were they running when they dyno'd everything?

Lane

Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: zbrown on February 17, 2015, 12:08:24 PM
Looks great!

The whole dyno deal is very Interesting to say the least.  It seems they threw it on the dyno and did high load only. I mean great the rings are happy and seated, But the low load and rpm is non existent.
This  thing was trying to run at from 50 to well over 100lb/hr of fuel at idle....   Where ~10lb is ballpark on an engine like that on gasoline.

50%dc at idle ftw lol

Fueling is good now.  When the car goes into active idle it starts oscillating.  It is either chasing it or behind it, hard to tell from the log if the idle spark pid is too or not aggressive enough, closed loop pid too aggressive or not enough, or the IAC pid same thing.

Made some more changes and showed josh some stuff to play with in real time so he can see how it reacts.  He will get it figured out for sure. Its weird for me because I always have the car in front of me

All I know is being able to run a combo of speed density and and alpha N is awesome on the holley. Very impressed with that
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: FC3S Murray on February 17, 2015, 11:06:05 PM
Congratulations man! She sounds good at 1100 rpm lol...should sound nasty at 800 rpm. Such a clean swap, pat yourself on the back, you deserve it bud. :cheers:

Get all those bugs worked out and take it to WOT......you will be back on here smiling from ear to ear typing about the experience.

BTW I hope Zack can help get the idle tuning dialed in fairly quick. I have spent a total of about 4-5 hours (a half hour a day which requires a cold start) dialing in my idle settings with HP tuners just to get my desired airflow, IAC  & underspeed/overspeed timing all perfect for my current set up. It can be tedious but is WORTH it when finished. Mine is solid now and has a very noticeable chop to it that is consistent and timed perfectly. Hopefully SD and Alpha N don't take as much time as annoying maf/SD combos do.
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: AKINA FC on February 18, 2015, 04:48:34 PM
Looks good! The rest should fall together fairly easy I should think  :cheers:
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: GTR on February 23, 2015, 03:39:43 PM
SWEET  :cheers: ! If only I can get my Holley HP to idle like that!
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: Ryan23 on February 25, 2015, 12:10:07 AM
Just dropped by, haven't checked on things lately. Good to hear you got the initial teething pains sorted. FWIW, I had to pull about 45% of fuel out of the basemap to get mine to stop chocking on fuel with the Dominator. I tuned it with HPtuners before, so I'm familiar with what my injector PW should be @ idle. It was about 2.2 ms too high. I kinda figured the software would have initially scaled the fuel map when given the injector settings/FP but that doesn't appear to have been the case. In any event,  mine is now idling fairly well @ 900 with my cam (242/252, 112LSA). The cold start needs a few more sessions to get completely nailed down  (plenty of opportunities, sigh) What's your IAC motor % at warm idle? I had to crack my TB a bit more than what I had with the stock PCM and my car used to idle like a kitten. I'm sitting about 5% warm. I haven't been able to do any tuning because the weather just sucks out here. So instead, I just sit in the driver's seat, make Vroom-Vroom noises and play with the Digital Dash :). In all honesty, I've got PLENTY of mini projects/parts to tide me over until the warmer weather gets here. Like traction control =)

Lookin' good!

Ryan
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: GEAUX FAST on February 25, 2015, 01:41:16 PM
Awesome sound! I know you're stoked to get that first ride to the corner store in! Car looks great as well!
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on March 09, 2015, 12:44:21 AM
Getting There!

I figured I would give some updates on progress.  I knocked out a few things off of my list, but I still have some to go. 

1.  Exhaust needs redone.  My center muffler sits about 2" off the ground.  An obvious oversight in my first exhaust modification attempt.  That is the first order of business.  I ordered 2 more full U bends, and a 4ft section of pipe.  I was definitely going in with a little more foresight this time around.  I dropped the exhaust and raised the center muffler as far as she will go.  It sits about 1" from the driveshaft with excellent fitment all through.  It's WAY better than it was before.  I have yet to drag driving around.
(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150222_114831_zpsdglgrgan.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150222_114831_zpsdglgrgan.jpg.html)

2.  Get the idle sorted.  Obviously it's a pain to drive around with it surging and dying so once we get it steady, more driving can happen.  I got the idle settled in perfectly at 900rpm.  Still working on cold starts.  It also still wants to die if I free rev it too high.  Zack has been helping me and I can't thank him enough for his time and knowledge.

3.  Oil change and plug change.  After a day of many very rich attempts, I think it would be good to get fresh oil in there and start with another set of fresh plugs.  Both fresh.  That oil was black as night and smelly. 

4.  Check differential.  My Cobra diff is a stocker with 39k out of a known good car.  I noticed at around 40mph and above it started humming pretty good.  I want to get under it to make sure everything looks good.  When I was filling it, most of my friction modifier came out.  Oversight on my part with the fill tube.  I will probably add another pint and keep an eye on it.  Everything looked good when I had the cover off, but we will see.  Added more modifier and it's WAY quieter.  Still making noise, but from what I am reading, it's at an acceptable level.  Going to drive it and see how it plays out.

5.  Alignment.  It needs one...bad.  Rear and front are both out.  The alignment went well and everything straightened out nicely.  I debated where to take it, but after talking to a few folks locally, the Firestone on base turned out to be the pick.  Now I have never been a big fan of Firestone but the guys on base are pretty cool.  I stopped in the day before to chat with them and get a feel for what was feasible.  They definitely let me get involved with the process, which is what I wanted.  They also aligned the car with me sitting in the drivers seat, which was great.  It was a very nerving experience getting in on the rack and back off without scraping or messing anything up... but we made it unscathed, and she drives excellent!
(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150227_144338_zps0yjkdyj7.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150227_144338_zps0yjkdyj7.jpg.html)

6.  Dakota Digital programming........Still gotta do this.  I also need to order a box for my tach. 

7.  Hood fitment.  Still not sure if the Mazdaspeed hood will fit, but I am about to find out.  It fits!!  It rubs the silicone coupler slightly but it causes no issues from what I have seen.  Another reason I like the all silicone intake pipe is that there isn't alot of tension on it.  In the place where the hood does hit, it's soft and doesn't seem like it will cause an issue.  It actually fits better than the pic below, as I adjusted my latch a little to get the hood gaps and height perfect.  Nonetheless, she is on with no issues.

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150227_140950_zpsiv0bfes0.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150227_140950_zpsiv0bfes0.jpg.html)

I also spent some time eliminating the biggest eye sore on the entire project!!  I depinned each bright colorful injector wire and sheeth'd it with black shrink tube.  I also removed both blue and bright green clip locks from each of the injector plugs.  Ahhh...much cleaner. :D

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150222_114434_zpstryr1v0u.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150222_114434_zpstryr1v0u.jpg.html)


On the Road!

 I have put about 100 miles on the car and I am loving every minute of driving it.  My first impressions are that I absolutely love this setup.  Lag?...it doesn't know the meaning.  It makes the rotary feel like a lazy bum.  All of my "power pulls" have been partial throttle to about 4000rpm max.  Everything is still settling in of course so I can't romp on it yet.  The Magnum is shifting better and better with smooth effortless precision.  I also really like the 3.55 rear end gearing and I'm glad I stayed there.  It feels perfect for a street cruiser.

More videos coming soon, but here is a quick one.


http://youtu.be/6mWwRXF0olI (http://youtu.be/6mWwRXF0olI)

Catching the Crap

With about 100 miles on the setup I was curious to see if there was anything collected in my catch can.  I'm glad I'm using this unit.

http://youtu.be/VmhO1s0Avk0 (http://youtu.be/VmhO1s0Avk0)

And finally, I took the time to give her a much deserved detail.  :drive:

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150308_170702_zpsgblsvaxd.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150308_170702_zpsgblsvaxd.jpg.html)
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on March 09, 2015, 07:01:53 AM
Just dropped by, haven't checked on things lately. Good to hear you got the initial teething pains sorted. FWIW, I had to pull about 45% of fuel out of the basemap to get mine to stop chocking on fuel with the Dominator. I tuned it with HPtuners before, so I'm familiar with what my injector PW should be @ idle. It was about 2.2 ms too high. I kinda figured the software would have initially scaled the fuel map when given the injector settings/FP but that doesn't appear to have been the case. In any event,  mine is now idling fairly well @ 900 with my cam (242/252, 112LSA). The cold start needs a few more sessions to get completely nailed down  (plenty of opportunities, sigh) What's your IAC motor % at warm idle? I had to crack my TB a bit more than what I had with the stock PCM and my car used to idle like a kitten. I'm sitting about 5% warm. I haven't been able to do any tuning because the weather just sucks out here. So instead, I just sit in the driver's seat, make Vroom-Vroom noises and play with the Digital Dash :). In all honesty, I've got PLENTY of mini projects/parts to tide me over until the warmer weather gets here. Like traction control =)

Lookin' good!

Ryan

Lol... I hear ya.  I got my IAC to set at around 2% but it fluctuates from 0-2 quite a bit.  My cold starts are terrible.   Working on them now.
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: digitalsolo on March 09, 2015, 08:17:09 AM
Such a beautiful build!   Glad you're able to go out and enjoy it!
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: halfspec on March 09, 2015, 08:33:25 AM
Nice to see you're making such excellent progress Josh. Enjoyed the vids. They definitely do a good job showing that the exhaust turned out to be civil ;)
I know you've got a few pics kicking around showing the last mods made to the exhaust. You know we're all exhaust junkies here so post em up :D

For your tach, don't buy another DD to correct it. This is easily something you can correct in your Holley software. See this thread:
http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=21426.msg283064#new (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=21426.msg283064#new)

If I had to guess I'd say your ECU is sending 4 pules/rev to the tach when it should be sending 2 pulses / rev.

Lane
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on March 09, 2015, 10:02:51 AM
Nice to see you're making such excellent progress Josh. Enjoyed the vids. They definitely do a good job showing that the exhaust turned out to be civil ;)
I know you've got a few pics kicking around showing the last mods made to the exhaust. You know we're all exhaust junkies here so post em up :D

For your tach, don't buy another DD to correct it. This is easily something you can correct in your Holley software. See this thread:
http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=21426.msg283064#new (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=21426.msg283064#new)

If I had to guess I'd say your ECU is sending 4 pules/rev to the tach when it should be sending 2 pulses / rev.

Lane

Oh ok.. ;).  Again, the welds aren't amazing but I am slowly getting better.  It's definitely strong

As for the tachometer, thanks for the link.  I remember reading that somewhere and then I forgot about it...lol.  Looks like that little piece of information needs to go in my wiring notes this time.  One thing about going with the HP instead of the Dominator is there are definitely a limited number of inputs and outputs.  With only 4 each, things can get tight if you want to control more stuff.  Currently, I have a PWM+ going to the check engine light.  Of course, it isn't acting as a PWM, but it's that specific wire.  I had the CEL setup as a warn for temps above 220 or oil pressure below 20psi.  Honestly, with the LCD dash getting installed, I won't need it.  The LCD has a complete set of warn features.  Using that output looks to be a valid solution.  Thank you!!

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150221_174315_zpsgmrpyiqe.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150221_174315_zpsgmrpyiqe.jpg.html)
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: halfspec on March 09, 2015, 10:18:52 AM
Nice to see you're making such excellent progress Josh. Enjoyed the vids. They definitely do a good job showing that the exhaust turned out to be civil ;)
I know you've got a few pics kicking around showing the last mods made to the exhaust. You know we're all exhaust junkies here so post em up :D

For your tach, don't buy another DD to correct it. This is easily something you can correct in your Holley software. See this thread:
http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=21426.msg283064#new (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=21426.msg283064#new)

If I had to guess I'd say your ECU is sending 4 pules/rev to the tach when it should be sending 2 pulses / rev.

Lane

Oh ok.. ;).  Again, the welds aren't amazing but I am slowly getting better.  It's definitely strong

As for the tachometer, thanks for the link.  I remember reading that somewhere and then I forgot about it...lol.  Looks like that little piece of information needs to go in my wiring notes this time.  One thing about going with the HP instead of the Dominator is there are definitely a limited number of inputs and outputs.  With only 4 each, things can get tight if you want to control more stuff.  Currently, I have a PWM+ going to the check engine light.  Of course, it isn't acting as a PWM, but it's that specific wire.  I had the CEL setup as a warn for temps above 220 or oil pressure below 20psi.  Honestly, with the LCD dash getting installed, I won't need it.  The LCD has a complete set of warn features.  Using that output looks to be a valid solution.  Thank you!!

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150221_174315_zpsgmrpyiqe.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150221_174315_zpsgmrpyiqe.jpg.html)

Strength > Cosmetics :) I like what I see.

Hmmm... I must have missed Negrok20r's suggestion for how to resolve the tach situation in the Holley. I don't own a Holley, but I would be very VERY surprised if there isn't a way to modify the current tach output, as this option has been available in every tuning suite I've ever used. Setting up a new output is definitely one way to skin the cat but I would be dumbfounded if its the only way to do it with such a tinker friendly ecu.   I mean, all that's happening is that the Holley is taking a reading from the cam position sensor and scaling it to 2/3/4 pulses per rev based on your cylinder count and/or your preference. If it's not an option (which again, I think it would be insane if it weren't) I think it would be an easy request to have added to the software. Probably 1 line of code, and a drop box selector in the software. 5 minute job for a software engineer.

I would dig through the user manual and hit their forums if its not an obvious option. Keep us posted. I'd like to know if its not an option for future reference.

Lane
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: Donthitme on March 09, 2015, 11:58:50 AM
Very nice build, the how to videos are really nice!  I heard those side mirrors have huge blind spots, but I have no real experience with them.  Overall the car sounds great!
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: Ryan23 on March 09, 2015, 09:30:36 PM
Nice to see you're making such excellent progress Josh. Enjoyed the vids. They definitely do a good job showing that the exhaust turned out to be civil ;)
I know you've got a few pics kicking around showing the last mods made to the exhaust. You know we're all exhaust junkies here so post em up :D

For your tach, don't buy another DD to correct it. This is easily something you can correct in your Holley software. See this thread:
http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=21426.msg283064#new (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=21426.msg283064#new)

If I had to guess I'd say your ECU is sending 4 pules/rev to the tach when it should be sending 2 pulses / rev.

Lane

Oh ok.. ;).  Again, the welds aren't amazing but I am slowly getting better.  It's definitely strong

As for the tachometer, thanks for the link.  I remember reading that somewhere and then I forgot about it...lol.  Looks like that little piece of information needs to go in my wiring notes this time.  One thing about going with the HP instead of the Dominator is there are definitely a limited number of inputs and outputs.  With only 4 each, things can get tight if you want to control more stuff.  Currently, I have a PWM+ going to the check engine light.  Of course, it isn't acting as a PWM, but it's that specific wire.  I had the CEL setup as a warn for temps above 220 or oil pressure below 20psi.  Honestly, with the LCD dash getting installed, I won't need it.  The LCD has a complete set of warn features.  Using that output looks to be a valid solution.  Thank you!!

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150221_174315_zpsgmrpyiqe.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150221_174315_zpsgmrpyiqe.jpg.html)

Strength > Cosmetics :) I like what I see.

Hmmm... I must have missed Negrok20r's suggestion for how to resolve the tach situation in the Holley. I don't own a Holley, but I would be very VERY surprised if there isn't a way to modify the current tach output, as this option has been available in every tuning suite I've ever used. Setting up a new output is definitely one way to skin the cat but I would be dumbfounded if its the only way to do it with such a tinker friendly ecu.   I mean, all that's happening is that the Holley is taking a reading from the cam position sensor and scaling it to 2/3/4 pulses per rev based on your cylinder count and/or your preference. If it's not an option (which again, I think it would be insane if it weren't) I think it would be an easy request to have added to the software. Probably 1 line of code, and a drop box selector in the software. 5 minute job for a software engineer.

I would dig through the user manual and hit their forums if its not an obvious option. Keep us posted. I'd like to know if its not an option for future reference.

Lane

Just curious...did you rewire the CEL circuit? I'm also using the Dom (full box). However, I believe the Mazda CEL circuit has 12V sitting on top of the light and it's looking for a ground to light.

Ryan
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: FC3S Murray on March 09, 2015, 10:42:57 PM
How much longer do you have for break in? 
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: Spec C on March 09, 2015, 11:27:13 PM
Thought it got broken in on the dyno?
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: FC3S Murray on March 10, 2015, 08:42:14 PM
That's what I was thinking. Closed loop doesn't take to long to learn and trim your fuel cells. If your power enrichment (WOT fueling) is dialed in then let her rip man. It isn't a rotary ;)
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: MPbdy on March 10, 2015, 11:01:07 PM
Maybe clutch, trans, rear end?
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on March 10, 2015, 11:24:02 PM
Ironically,  the Holley doesn't have a way to modify the tach signal from it's primary tach wire.  I got it close by utilizing a PWM.  I just need to get the multiplier right.  When I do, I will post a screen shot with a write-up on how to set it up.  I spoke with Steve Morris engines and they were really helpful.  I will get it sorted soon.

Yes, I used the one I had setup for the CEL.  If it needed a ground,  then I guess I am ahead by switching it...lol.  The CEL was never really necessary With the dash coming anyway

The engine was "broke-in" on the engine dyno.  But, my transmission and clutch are still fresh.   They need around 5-700 good miles to settle in.  Though the engine is all seated, it can also use some time of variable throttle and a few oil changes before WOT pulls.  Playing it safe, sure.  But my cold starts still suck and it gives me time to learn the software more. 
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on March 10, 2015, 11:34:34 PM
Very nice build, the how to videos are really nice!  I heard those side mirrors have huge blind spots, but I have no real experience with them.  Overall the car sounds great!

Yes, the mirrors are terrible as mirrors.... But damn they look good! ;)
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: babillaracing on March 11, 2015, 12:10:15 AM
beautiful car sir
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: hayabusa on March 12, 2015, 06:33:46 PM
Very True!
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: halfspec on March 13, 2015, 02:54:03 PM
Ironically,  the Holley doesn't have a way to modify the tach signal from it's primary tach wire. 

That makes me angry for you Josh  >:(

If you take that to it's logical conclusion what that means is every LS car owner who had a working tach with their stock GM PCM before they decided to go standalone and chose Holley automatically gets a broken tach out of the box and the only solution is to use up one of your limited IOs. I'm sorry but that's just lazy. It's lazy because Holley assumed every car that runs a V8 has a tach that accepts a 4pulses/rev signal and it's lazy because they haven't already patched it.

Lane

Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: zbrown on March 13, 2015, 03:39:11 PM
There is revamp coming. Many things will change.  Like flex fuel etc


So there is hope itv will be addressed


Car looks great. I want wot impressions lol
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on March 13, 2015, 04:07:34 PM
I definitely agree that it's a little ridiculous.  Like Zbrown said, I know there are changes coming and I have been tracking them as well.  Honestly, the same could be said about their apparent abscense of a flex fuel solution.  Currently, users have to swap maps and hope for the best when switching from gasoline to ethanol....it's plain silly.  And don't get me started on not utilizing an OBD output for awesome gauges like the PLX LCD, but instead they offer their proprietary gauges or a $800 LCD.

In my mind it comes back to the same comparison chart.  Every ECU has their quirks and advantages.  Overall, I really like the Holley. 

WOT pulls are coming soon.  It has been non-stop raining all week so I get to sit in the garage and wax the thing...lol.  I've also been scoping out some upcoming car shows.  Scraping the Coast, Cruising the Coast, and a few other big events are definitely on my radar.  Time to whip out the cue-tips, model paint and micro-fibers. :)
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on March 17, 2015, 08:01:41 AM
http://youtu.be/bqTX6Af_FI8 (http://youtu.be/bqTX6Af_FI8)
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: GTR on March 18, 2015, 04:45:08 PM
Looks like you got your tach working.
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on April 06, 2015, 01:12:14 AM
http://youtu.be/_SgWQrAuQY8 (http://youtu.be/_SgWQrAuQY8)

http://youtu.be/bqTX6Af_FI8 (http://youtu.be/bqTX6Af_FI8)
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: quinns on April 06, 2015, 02:43:42 AM
When can I bring mine by for a detail :yay:? You sure keep that thing flossin, looks awesome.
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: jerrymichaels7 on April 18, 2015, 11:04:58 PM
Wish I would of seen this in person before I left the school house. Didn't even put 2 and 2 together till i seen your thread on rx7club
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: Nfinitecc on April 25, 2015, 05:49:52 AM
Hey man, I was on the atomic efi forum and came across your post, it didn't seem like they tried to sell you on it at all! I'm going back and forth at the Holley and the MSD, what steered you away from MSD?
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: FC3S Murray on April 25, 2015, 04:56:30 PM
You rodding the crap out of this thing yet? :)
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on April 27, 2015, 01:07:17 AM
Hey guys.  Been busy with work and life.  Car is still sexy as ever. ;-)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150216_164302_zpsatsz3thl.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150216_164302_zpsatsz3thl.jpg.html)


For the Atomic vs Holley.  It came down to control and support.  The Holley has it! Perfect example was for me to be able to control the AC like factory.  Using the GM pressure sensor as an input, and the dash AC button.  Turning the compressor off at a certain rpm or map load or even coolant temp.  The Atomic is extremely limited in these user adjustable areas.  Traction control?  Davis Technologies worked directly with Holley to create a fantastic system that is controlled in the software.  Just a few examples.  Of course the real action is being able to actively loook at my full fuel and timing maps.  To run alpha-N and speed density combined is just one of many great features.  I am VERY glad I didn't choose the Atomic.  The Holley is fantastic.  Don't get lured into their fuel rail ECU and "wiredless" design.  The Holley was a breeze to wire up.

A few small updates: 

Tune:  Once I get everything ready, I will be getting this thing on a dyno.  I think I found a good shop to help me dial everything in.  They are really local to me, specialize in LSx setups and know the Holley efi very well.  After seeing their reviews in the community and talking to them on the phone, I am confident my car will be in good hands. I am hopefully a few weeks away.

http://northshorespeedshop.com/home.html (http://northshorespeedshop.com/home.html)

Diff:  Having my diff rebuilt.   The loud humming in the videos just isn't normal.  It's literally the loudest part of driving.  I put it in the air for another tranny fluid change and found both axle seals to be leaking.  With an unopened 39k unit, it shouldn't have this.  As such,  I am working with a great seller to have it rebuilt.  Should be fresh and in order.

AC system:  Well, my compressor randomly shit the bed.  I hadn't charged or engaged the compressor as it has been on the bottom of my list.  She was just spinning on the belt until it came time.  The bearings locked up and fried it.  It's got a fresh AC Delco now and I will be charging it soon.  The system has been holding 30in of vacuum for about 3 days so everything is looking solid.  Lanes wiring kit is engaging the compressor perfectly as my tests were sucessful.  With the Holley controlling everything,  I should have it rocking with a charge of ES12a soon.

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150424_124520_zpsfavqsdoq.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150424_124520_zpsfavqsdoq.jpg.html)
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: Mik3ymomo on April 27, 2015, 05:16:06 PM
Car looks great!
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: Nfinitecc on April 27, 2015, 05:52:44 PM
thanks for the reply, I always prefer hearing customers reviews over the companies. I just need to decide if shelling out the extra cash for the Dominator is worth it to keep my drive by wire, or switch to a throttle body and run the HP. it would be an easy decision if I hadn't already bought a Samberg ls7 intake tube, GTO mount and MAF! But hey it goes that way sometimes.
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on April 27, 2015, 11:38:09 PM
thanks for the reply, I always prefer hearing customers reviews over the companies. I just need to decide if shelling out the extra cash for the Dominator is worth it to keep my drive by wire, or switch to a throttle body and run the HP. it would be an easy decision if I hadn't already bought a Samberg ls7 intake tube, GTO mount and MAF! But hey it goes that way sometimes.
Ah, now that was my struggle as well.  A few things to consider....

Dominator:  The harness is la carte.  It will end up being about $1k more than the HP.  I don't have alot of input on the DBW but the Holley is pretty user friendly.  Another advantage is expandability.   The Dominator will never run out of I/0s.  It has the option to run dual widebands or even 8 egts if you wish. 

HP:  Harness supplied with the kit will do what you need it to.  The only additional harness you need is the I/O for about $50.  There are only 4 inputs and 4 outputs.   If you plan to run AC, fans (of course), traction control, etc...you run out quick.

Samberg swapped my Samber LS7 maf tube with one not welded.   Easy.
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: Nfinitecc on April 28, 2015, 02:15:05 AM
Yeah I was quoted about $3100 for everything I need with the dominator set up, only thing is I'm not running AC so I'm not sure I would need all the I/O's. Hard to justify when I can sell the DBW stuff for a couple bills then buy a $400 TB and and order the HP. I had my intake tube made with a -6an fitting opposite the MAF downstream for the clean return from my catchcan, but no biggie I bet it will sell on here!  Cars looking great man I'm big time paint snob and detailer myself, I'm looking into that blower set up you had for drying, looked wicked.
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: digitalsolo on April 28, 2015, 07:50:16 AM
I know some locals with the Holley setups and every single one likes them a lot.

If I wasn't such a big ProEFI fan at this point, I'd be looking closely at the Holley setup, it's definitely a lot less complex to get going.   
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on May 03, 2015, 05:11:38 AM
http://youtu.be/k6PJh-IUdBg (http://youtu.be/k6PJh-IUdBg)
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: digital_hoon on July 06, 2015, 08:52:05 AM
You ever get this thing tuned or on a dyno?
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: MPbdy on July 06, 2015, 12:41:38 PM
Which tablet mount is that?  Everything is wireless to your amp via bluetooth you said?

Pretty slick! 
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: FC3S Murray on July 07, 2015, 11:13:22 PM
Updates... :drive: :popcorn:
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: AHarada on July 11, 2015, 03:22:21 PM
Great build! 

After reading through your thread, I'm thinking about going with the Holley in the future.  Where do you place the Wideband O2 sensor?  I have JTR long tubes into 2 high flow cats, then they meet at a Y just before the rear diff.  Is there an ideal distance from the engine that you would want the sensor?  And does it matter if it is installed after catalytic converters? Can you set up an input to read from 2 widebands, 1 on each bank before my cats?

Sorry for all the questions
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: MPbdy on July 11, 2015, 03:36:45 PM
You definitely cannot put the wideband after the cats.
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on July 17, 2015, 12:01:55 AM
The tune is coming, just not immediately.  I plan to shake it down more and focus on street tuning.  The engine made excellent power on the dyno with safe timing.  Realistically, I can run this tune on the street and have more than enough power at my disposal.  So for now, I want to focus on driveability and getting it purring from cold, to hot with A/C.

  I had a lot of down time waiting to get the diff rebuilt.  We played cat and mouse with the wrong spider gears.  It's now assembled and on all 4s again.  I have been on leave with my family the last 2 weeks as well, so things have been slow.  I got home today and was excited to take her out, aaaaand it starts dumping the rain down.  No shakedown on the new diff yet, but I will.

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150709_104116_zpswus1mkhm.jpg)

Which tablet mount is that?  Everything is wireless to your amp via bluetooth you said?

Pretty slick! 


The tablet is a 7".  I used a universal Ram mount and a blank sheet of abs plastic to fix it in the din pocket.  The tablet charges while in use and can easily be removed.  I used a simple bluetooth receiver that has RCA outputs to feed my Clarion amp.  All can be purchased through Amazon.  The tablet uses an App called Tasker that allows  me to control functions like a car stereo.

Great build! 

After reading through your thread, I'm thinking about going with the Holley in the future.  Where do you place the Wideband O2 sensor?  I have JTR long tubes into 2 high flow cats, then they meet at a Y just before the rear diff.  Is there an ideal distance from the engine that you would want the sensor?  And does it matter if it is installed after catalytic converters? Can you set up an input to read from 2 widebands, 1 on each bank before my cats?

Sorry for all the questions

No worries, and thanks for the compliments.  Sharing is what it's all about.  My Spoolin headers both had 02 bungs just before the vband flange and at the merge of all the runners.  Ideally, this is where you want it to be.  Your JTR's should have the bungs as well.  I just put a 02 plug on the once side I wasn't using.  As mentioned, do not place it after the cats.

As for the Holley, the HP does not do dual widebands.  For that, you will need the Dominator.  There are a few things the Dominator does the HP doesn't and dual widebands is one of them.  Fly-by-wire throttle body is another, as well as the Dominator having WAY more I/0's for auxiliary control items such as boost control or nitrous.  The HP has some I/O's, but only 4 of each.  Once you start adding functions, they can run out quick.
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on July 19, 2015, 08:21:23 PM
Picked up a new daily driver.  The Ranger was approaching it's end-of-life.

2000 Miata w/PEP. 49k original miles.  Pretty damn mint!  It just made a 900 mile trip from WV to MS with zero issues.  I was getting a P0420 CEL so I swapped the cat and catback with a Magnaflow setup.  Sounds excellent and no more CEL.  It may get an Acura V6 swap one day, but for now, she will stay mostly stock.

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/20150702_182509_zpsuaecksat.jpg)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/20150627_172430_zpsilwwwgym.jpg)

Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: MPbdy on July 19, 2015, 08:46:46 PM
Car looks nice man.  I had an '03 for ages.  What'd you pick it up for?  Mine was an '03 sport.  Sold it a couple years back for 9 with 76k miles and a new top.

Was a blast to drive, but would have been better with more power.  I'd be interested to drive a v6 swap one day. 
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on July 19, 2015, 11:58:38 PM
Thanks.  Got it for $7k flush.  I thought it was a good deal considering the owner as he was the original.  70 year old gentleman that only drove it on nice days down to the beach.  Garage kept all it's life under a car cover.  The undercarriage looks new.  Interior, spotless.  I swear the exhaust had zero surface rust.  It was on it's 2nd set of tires...from 03...LOL.  It needed a few things maintenance wise as he wasn't a religious car guy.  I put a new set of Douglas PR-T Performance tires on it and she ran smooth as silk.  Plugs, wires, and a fresh coil pack.  Apparently it's a issue that can cause the cat to fail.  New 02 sensors with the Magnaflow header/back and she is solid. 


Plans are mild and mostly geared towards safety and reliability.  It will get a roll bar and maybe a set of Enkei RPF1's (14x7) at 8lbs each.  Likely a set of sway bars to stiffen it up, and maybe a light set of shocks and springs. 


The JV6 swap is quite intriguing.  It uses the entire Miata drivetrain so cost is minimalized.  Not to mention it keeps that sweet shifting 5spd.  Drops in a 270hp Acura TL engine and the weight difference is around 10lbs.


Time will tell where it goes, but for now, she is on daily duties. 
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: quinns on July 20, 2015, 12:08:48 AM
You have good taste in cars  8)
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on July 20, 2015, 12:30:39 AM
Thanks :)


I actually had one last year for a few months.  With the finalization of the LS swap looming, something had to go.  I decided to keep the Ranger we had as it was worth much less for resale.  It was my first Miata and I was immediately hooked after driving one.  I knew I would get back in another.  At 6' 215lbs I barely fit comfortably.  I did 900 miles and my only real complaint was the hard arm rest.

I spoke with the wife and she agreed it was time to get something a little more reliable for daily use.  She had been traveling alot with work so when the Pathfinder was gone, I was on my own getting to base 30 min each way if the Ranger shit the bed.  I had already done an emergency tranny pull on it as the slave went out on a Sunday morning.  A truck is handy, but the Miata is WAY funner to drive every day. ;)
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: Ryan23 on July 27, 2015, 12:48:12 PM
Not a damn thing wrong with an NB Miata =) I picked up my auto for next to nothing as the kids didn't want the slushbox making re-sale a challenge. I have since swapped it over to a 5 speed. It was low mileage (70k), zero rust and dealer maintained. Previous owner had a new top installed. It's my 6th Miata, I just love me a go kart. No "plans" to swap mine but you know how that goes. It's just such a reliable DD in factory form.

(http://home.comcast.net/~scoobywrx/LS1/miata_nb.jpg)

So... what was the result on the dyno? Don't feel bad if it didn't quite make what you were expecting. I've yet to see an FD dyno as well as an F-body/Vette, mod-for-mod. Mark (GNX7) and I experienced this first hand back when we were on similar builds. I did 520 rwhp with a 427, ported LS7 heads, cam & the usual bolt ons. I think Mark did 530 or so on a similar combo. I have since swapped over to a different cam, fully worked LS7 heads, 11.75:1 comp,  HP Dominator and the MSD intake. Haven't dyno'd yet (waiting for the intake to come back from the hydrodip guy). However, I've already preparing myself to not be disappointed with anything over 520whp, lol. It is what it is.

Ryan
     
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on September 05, 2015, 12:12:51 AM
No dyno yet.  I have been driving and tuning every chance I get.  In fact, I am heading to a nice cruise-in tomorrow.  I did notice an issue with my hood latch a week ago.  Driving along and the hood is unlatched.  After further inspection it appeared the cable was not allowing the latch to fully seat.  This let the hood pop randomly.  Bad news.  So luckily I found it.  It appears the cable ran next to the header runner and it got some heat.  A new OEM one is installed and the latch is 100%.

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20150828_121845_zpsbq8eycwj.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20150828_121845_zpsbq8eycwj.jpg.html)

I do still have the drivetrain vibration above 80mph.  After some investigation and searching I measured my u-joint working angles to find they were out of whack.  I shimmed up the diff and got things perfect.  The transmission output shaft and diff pinion are now parallel.  They also have equal and opposite working angles of 1.5 degrees.  I will be testing tomorrow.
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: Chigliakus on September 05, 2015, 02:07:26 AM
If you routed the new hood latch cable like the old one I recommend some DEI cool tape where it runs near your header primaries.  This is one of the common problems with new swaps and insulating the cable will prevent it from melting again.
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on November 07, 2015, 08:21:27 PM
UPDATE:

Well gents, it's been awhile and I have definitely had some developments in how the car has been running and driving.

Vibration
I have had a vibration issue since the swap was first driven.  It took me some time to really address it as I spent some time reworking the exhaust, and doing some initial tuning to get the car driveable.  But once I started actually looking at the vibration, it was a bit worse then I originally thought.  Under 40mph it was pretty much nonexistent but once speed increased it slowly got worse.  Any pull beyond 80mph would vibrate the car badly.  The vibration had a very high frequency, which pretty much dismissed tire vibration or bent axle.  Nonetheless, looked them over with no avail.  So I knew it had to be in the drivetrain portion that spins faster.  At first, I dismissed it as a likely a bad pinion bearing since the differential was howling pretty loud.  As previously stated, in my build thread, it was a low mileage unit from a good seller.  After a rebuild, the bearings were found to be fine, BUT the spider gears were chipped, so it wasn't a complete waste of time.  Of course, when I bolt up the new differential, nothing changed and the vibration was still present.

- Working Angles
(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/2500%20HD%204x2%20Powertrain%20Small%20with%20working%20angles_zpsr4luhwip.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/2500%20HD%204x2%20Powertrain%20Small%20with%20working%20angles_zpsr4luhwip.jpg.html)

So I started looking closer at my u-joint working angles.  They were definitely out of whack.  The rules dictate that u-joint angles for the front and rear of my driveshaft must be equal and opposite, less than 3 degrees but not 0 degrees.  The closer to 0 the better.  Samberg instructions dictate a 5.5" distance from center of the transmission output shaft, to the tranny tunnel surface.  After things were mounted, wedged and bolted in, I was sitting at about 6.25".  After a little inspection, this was a problem.  By changing the pitch of the transmission, it ultimately was changing the front working angle.  Furthermore, the pitch of the pinion on the diff was not right either.  So it was an easy fix.  Added some shims (washers) to each side and got them right where they needed to be.  My front and rear working angles now sit perfectly at .5 degrees.   Unfortunately, this didn't change a thing....

- Axle ABS Ring
(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20151009_153218_zpscf8u4bsj.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20151009_153218_zpscf8u4bsj.jpg.html)

Totally stumped I took an air gun to my pinion bolt while the rear was in the air.  I just wanted to see it all move so if anything presented itself.  Sure enough, when spinning the diff and the subsequent axles, I could see the inner cobra ABS ring wobbling like crazy.  After looking closer, it seemed the ring was pressed on crooked.  Why I didn't remove these damn things when I built the axles, I don't know.  But, I pulled the axles, removed the ring on both side and took it for a drive!!  I was pretty excited and thought for certain I had found the vibration source.  Unfortunately, this didn't change a thing....

So I was stumped.  The transmission is a new Magnum, driveshaft is new from Drive Shaft Shop, diff was freshly rebuilt, axles had no play in the CV, and the rear tires were checked for runout and flat spots just to be sure.  So what the F....  Well... I figured I would have the driveshaft balance checked just in case...

- Drive Shaft
(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20151017_101445_zpsq7m0s4n6.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20151017_101445_zpsq7m0s4n6.jpg.html)

Boom!  My brand new DSS driveshaft was out of balance, by a good bit.  I was pretty pissed, but also relieved.  I had a local shop look it over and they got it sorted.  I've had it up to 110mph and it's smooth as silk.  I truly couldn't be more happy.  You can see from the picture above, the silver washers are the weight the local shop added.  FINALLY the car is smooth and drives like it should.  Chasing a vibration is one of the most frustrating things I have done.  Very happy to have it sorted out. 
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: FC3S Murray on November 07, 2015, 08:30:17 PM
Glad to read you got the issue resolved. Bummer about the DSS...they have a great reputation but we are all human, mistakes will happen no matter the credentials.

Now how about some WOT videos and dyno/  1/4 mile attempts. :)
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on November 07, 2015, 08:36:49 PM
Tuning

Getting the drivetrain sorted really allowed me to focus on the fun stuff.  The 416 LS3 stroker has been a fun nut to crack with tuning.  I'm relatively new to tuning and definitely new to tuning a car with a healthy ass cam and the characteristics of a stroker.  One of the bigger issues I was dealing with has been low end and light throttle surge.  After a bit of research and experimenting, I got it acting tame as a kitten.  The key was really in the timing.  Light load off throttle got a healthy retard in timing and that changed everything.  It still needs a little tweaking but it has really helped in parking lot type cruising and initial take off during clutch release.  Notice the nice dip. :)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/Timing%20Screen_zpseteqk3de.png) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/Timing%20Screen_zpseteqk3de.png.html)
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on November 07, 2015, 08:39:50 PM
Glad to read you got the issue resolved. Bummer about the DSS...they have a great reputation but we are all human, mistakes will happen no matter the credentials.

Now how about some WOT videos and dyno/  1/4 mile attempts. :)

I agree.  Everyone makes mistakes, and it's just one of those things. 

As for WOT videos, and dyno action....that is going to be awhile.  I'll be working out of town for some time.  But, it will come.  I'll be picking up a GoPro and hitting the dyno for sure.  :)
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on November 07, 2015, 08:44:40 PM
Showtime!

After getting some things sorted, I got a chance to take it out and drive it more!  I even got a chance to win a local car show for Best Import.  Felt pretty good to get the attention in the sea of muscle cars.   :drive:

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/DSC_0613_zpszrcolxvn.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/DSC_0613_zpszrcolxvn.jpg.html)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/DSC_0593_zpsyk7qbgao.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/DSC_0593_zpsyk7qbgao.jpg.html)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/DSC_0590_zpsu3xmsbt1.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/DSC_0590_zpsu3xmsbt1.jpg.html)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/DSC_0591_zpsv661qkqb.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/DSC_0591_zpsv661qkqb.jpg.html)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/DSC_0588_zpssazpekd2.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/DSC_0588_zpssazpekd2.jpg.html)
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: digital_hoon on November 08, 2015, 10:19:39 AM
Car looks squeaky clean and great, per usual. Glad to see you've got some issues sorted out!  :cheers:
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: coastlineamps on November 08, 2015, 10:21:54 AM
Those seats look different.
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: FC3S Murray on November 08, 2015, 01:00:34 PM
Man, such clean work. Congrats on the award! You even get a chance to walk away from your car during the show? I always get bombarded with so many questions from show participates and guests that I always miss most of the other vehicles displayed.
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on November 08, 2015, 01:19:21 PM
Car looks squeaky clean and great, per usual. Glad to see you've got some issues sorted out!  :cheers:

Thanks buddy!

Man, such clean work man. Congrats on the award! You even get a chance to walk away from your car during the show? I always get bombarded with so many questions from show participates and guests that I always miss most of the other vehicles displayed.

Lol... totally the case.  I am pretty use to my car getting attention even when it was a rotary.  But good gravy it seems to never end with the swap.  It's either young guys that know what it is and want to know all about the swap, or old guys that don't know what it is but know it has a V8.   8)

Those seats look different.

Factory cloth base seats.  I will be recovering them with leather when the time comes.  I considered Recaros but honestly, the stock seats fit great.  For a street car, they are perfect.
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: coastlineamps on November 08, 2015, 02:17:36 PM
Your car is an absolute jem. I am kind of impressed with the work and to honestly say this, I am trying to copy your build from bits and pieces on your thread. At least I know what mine will be doing when completed. Keep it coming with updates.
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on November 08, 2015, 03:51:03 PM
Your car is an absolute jem. I am kind of impressed with the work and to honestly say this, I am trying to copy your build from bits and pieces on your thread. At least I know what mine will be doing when completed. Keep it coming with updates.

Imitation is the ultimate flattery and I am happy contribute to the community.  If you have any questions at all, feel free to post them or PM me.  Always happy to help. :)
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: halfspec on November 09, 2015, 08:46:18 AM
Been looking forward to this post Josh. Mike told me you had solved a vibration issue when we were talking the other day. During my recent move I pushed hard and got my RX7 back on the road in time to move itself under its own power. During some of the driving I did for 2 days I noticed a good amount of drivetrain vibration that appears to be generated from the trans tunnel -> rear end. Honestly, I really need to do some more driving to isolate / categorize the symptoms but my gut reaction was that it's an off-balance driveshaft. I have an aluminum DSS driveshaft and up to this point I haven't noticed excessive vibration but then again, this is the smoothest and most quiet my car has ever been so I think it's bringing the issue to the forefront. It makes me feel better that someone actually has a DSS driveshaft that was off balance because up to this point it seems like their reputation has been impeccable.

I've never tried to find help balancing a driveshaft. How did you go about it? Did you remove the driveshaft and find a shop that specializes in driveshafts / has a rotating rig?

Your car is looking 110% as always! The OCD in your engine bay is strong. I know I set you up with R134a AC lines with blue and red service valve caps. Did you actually source/paint black caps? ;)
Also looks like you've painted your coolant reservoir black. I like!
Finally, I need some info on your intake coupler  :yay:

Lane
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: largeorangefont on November 09, 2015, 12:44:01 PM
Yes take the driveshaft to a driveline shop. Any competent shop will be able to balance it for you. That and checking the driveline angles should be the first step to trouble shooting a vibration after ruling out wheel imbalance or loose/broken components.
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on November 12, 2015, 09:00:31 PM
Been looking forward to this post Josh. Mike told me you had solved a vibration issue when we were talking the other day. During my recent move I pushed hard and got my RX7 back on the road in time to move itself under its own power. During some of the driving I did for 2 days I noticed a good amount of drivetrain vibration that appears to be generated from the trans tunnel -> rear end. Honestly, I really need to do some more driving to isolate / categorize the symptoms but my gut reaction was that it's an off-balance driveshaft. I have an aluminum DSS driveshaft and up to this point I haven't noticed excessive vibration but then again, this is the smoothest and most quiet my car has ever been so I think it's bringing the issue to the forefront. It makes me feel better that someone actually has a DSS driveshaft that was off balance because up to this point it seems like their reputation has been impeccable.

I've never tried to find help balancing a driveshaft. How did you go about it? Did you remove the driveshaft and find a shop that specializes in driveshafts / has a rotating rig?

Your car is looking 110% as always! The OCD in your engine bay is strong. I know I set you up with R134a AC lines with blue and red service valve caps. Did you actually source/paint black caps? ;)
Also looks like you've painted your coolant reservoir black. I like!
Finally, I need some info on your intake coupler  :yay:

Lane

Thanks Lane!  Man, I was so happy to finally fix the vibration.  It's a sinking feeling to know you have spent all this time and money on a car and it ends up getting plagued with something like that. 

- Driveshaft -
A driveshaft vibration will be a high frequency.  Whether it's u-joint working angles or balance.  The driveshaft spins 4 times faster than the axles and wheels so when things are out of whack it is a much faster pulse then an out of balance tire.  It almost felt like hitting rumble strips on the highway at speed.  That is why I knew it was a drivetrain issue.  It was just different than anything I had felt before.  You will feel it in the body of the car also.  I didn't feel it in the steering wheel much.  The drivetrain itself will soak up alot of the vibration so what I felt was mostly in the transitional load; when letting off or getting on the gas for that split second.  Easiest way to identify if it's a constant is to just bring it up to speed and pop it in neutral.  It was immediately apparent at that point; it was completely speed dependent and it got worse with speed.  As for having the balance checked, largeorangefont is absolutely correct.  I found a local machine shop that specialized in drivetrains.  He spun it up and balanced it for me.  Be mindful of where you take it.  Any small dent, untrue tube, or even a u-joint retainer clip not completely seated will affect the balance.  I would seek out a place with a reputation and explain what it's doing. 

- Working Angles -

I have to echo largeorangefont on this.  Definitely double check your u-joint working angles.  There is some great documentation out there that I used to learn more about something I frankly knew nothing about.  I can outline what I learned, and share a link of some good info.  So the way she works essentially is there are 2 angles in our driveshaft created by u-joints.  The angles MUST be equal and opposite to not create a vibration.  The offset of those angles cancel each other out causing glorious smoothness.  Because the IRS differential is fixed to the chassis, those angles should never change.  The other catch is that the angles should be no more than 3 degrees, but can't be 0.  More than three degrees can cause an issue the faster the driveshaft spins.  If you drag race or hit high speeds than the higher operating angle (3 degrees +) can create a vibration.  For a low speed application that has say a 2.70 diff gear and never exceeds 80mph could never have a vibration from "5-6" degree working angles.  3 is more of a generalization, but definitely important for our application.  Especially since we like to go fast. :). They aren't suppose to be 0 either.  0 angle causes an issue with the needle bearing in the u-joint and can prematurely wear them out.  So less is better, but not zero.

Now the ONLY way the working angles can follow the number one rule of being EQUAL and OPPOSITE is if the transmission and the differential are at the same angle physically mounted to the car chassis.  The output shaft of the transmission, and the pinion flange of the differential will be on a different vertical plains, but the angles of their rotating center point must be the same.  Now the distance in which the transmission and differential are from each other on that vertical plain will identify the actual size of the working angle.  But first things first, get the transmission and diff at the same angle.

I did this in 2 ways.  First, I bought an angle finder.  I bought this exact one as below and it works great with it's magnetic edges.  Simply place it on the outputshaft of the transmission to get the angle for the front.  Then place it on the diff pinion flange to get the rear.  They should be the SAME angle.  If not, time to make them equal.  You can use shims, washers, or machined spacers to raise the "pitch" of both the trans and diff.  I put a few large washers under the transmission mount to raise it, as well as a few washers under the front ear mounts on the Cobra 8.8 to raise it as well.  This essentially put them at the same angle.  Remember that when you are measuring angles, the car doesn't have to be level.  The angles are found as references to each other.  Another important piece to remember, if you are shimming up the transmission (lifting it) to correct the angle, this will also affect how your exhaust headers fit with the rest of your exhaust.  Most headers have a V-band flange and the headers are directly bolted to the engine.  It doesn't take much movement from the transmission tail to change the angle of those header V-band flanges.  Be mindful of this.  I had to modify exhaust once I corrected my angles.

Once they are equal, just measure the angle of the driveshaft and input your angles in a calculator.  Ultimately, the driveshaft angle just subtracts from the trans and diff angles leaving you with a number that is each respective angle.  I ended up with .5 degrees on both sides.  About as good as she gets.

You can also use your smartphone for a rough idea as it uses the internal gyro thingy.  "Tremec Toolbox" is an App available in the Playstore.  It will walk you through it.


http://www.speedwaymotors.com/DECO-Angle-Finder-Tool-414-Inch-Diameter,2916.html (http://www.speedwaymotors.com/DECO-Angle-Finder-Tool-414-Inch-Diameter,2916.html)
(http://static.speedwaymotors.com/RS/SR/Product/91089409_L.jpg)

Working Angle Info
http://www2.dana.com/pdf/J3311-1-HVTSS.PDF (http://www2.dana.com/pdf/J3311-1-HVTSS.PDF)

Angle Calculator
http://spicerparts.com/calculators/driveline-operating-angle-calculator (http://spicerparts.com/calculators/driveline-operating-angle-calculator)


Yes take the driveshaft to a driveline shop. Any competent shop will be able to balance it for you. That and checking the driveline angles should be the first step to trouble shooting a vibration after ruling out wheel imbalance or loose/broken components.

- Engine Bay -

Yes, I painted the caps you provided.  8)...  I also removed the colored clips and locks from the injector plugs, and depinned the wires to add a black shielding for each one.  It covered the colored wires.  You can see how "loud" they looked in my first startup video with no hood.  I wasn't having it.  It's all about the little things. :yay:

- Intake Coupler -

Easy.  I bought this bad boy.

TOG 4 INCH 102 MM 45 DEGREE SILICONE HOSE BEND ELBOW BLACK- 152MM LONG TURBO
http://www.ebay.com/itm/TOG-4-INCH-102-MM-45-DEGREE-SILICONE-HOSE-BEND-ELBOW-BLACK-152MM-LONG-TURBO-/121208073335?hash=item1c38906c77:g:BzwAAOxy5jxSdwNh&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/TOG-4-INCH-102-MM-45-DEGREE-SILICONE-HOSE-BEND-ELBOW-BLACK-152MM-LONG-TURBO-/121208073335?hash=item1c38906c77:g:BzwAAOxy5jxSdwNh&vxp=mtr)

Now finding a 4" coupler was pretty easy... Finding one with 152mm legs was PITA!  This is the only one I could find that gave me enough length on each end to actually reach the throttle body and the filter.  There was more than enough as I had to trim it down.  My air intake sensor is mounted in the intake manifold, and I am MAF absent as the Holley runs speed density.  Works great!
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: Mik3ymomo on November 13, 2015, 06:51:02 AM
Love the attention to detail! Car is so clean! You took it to he next level. So excited to see what this runs in the 1/4 mile! Or even the 1/2 mile ;)
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on November 13, 2015, 10:38:07 PM
Thanks guys.  :cheers:


  Santa is getting me a GoPro and plain ticket for Mik3ymomo to come shoot my car!!! :yay: :yay: :yay:
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: GTR on November 25, 2015, 12:18:59 AM
Did you ever get your cold starts sorted out?
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on November 25, 2015, 11:26:36 AM
Not quite.  I was working on them but I had to go work out of town for quite awhile.  I plan to re-attack.  I was slowly getting things richer and that was a big help.  With such a cam, a richer AFR is definitely required when she's cold.  I think setting my modifier up to around 12:1 should get me close.
 
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: GTR on November 25, 2015, 01:47:16 PM
Are you turning off your close loop correction at idle? At idle, my car runs in open loop and I tuned the idle manually. Having an upgraded cam can give your wide band false readings at idle.
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on November 25, 2015, 02:14:24 PM
Thanks for the input!  I definitely like hearing ideas and getting advice on tuning.  Such a fun learning experience.
 
Currently I am allowing closed loop to remove fuel but not add it during hot idle.  It uses open loop up to 160 degrees water temp.  The idle is solid during decal, A/C engagement, and all driveability.  My big issue was my decal was too rich causing the idle to dip hard when coming down.  And of course, my surging didn't help matters at off idle loads.
 
I definitely plan to play with it more.  Tuning is like QoS, never done tweaking.  8)
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: GTR on November 25, 2015, 02:19:19 PM
If you're engine is dying , try adjusting your IAC park up. I adjusted mine to 50 or so, and did a couple test runs. When I found a setting that didnt let the car die, I slowly went down from there to find a good setting.
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on November 25, 2015, 03:23:46 PM
The "park position" only affects the IAC position during engine startup/cranking, not during idle.  Are you talking about the Hold Position?  That affects IAC position when TPS isn't at 0%,
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: GTR on November 25, 2015, 04:44:27 PM
Yeah sorry, I meant Hold Position.
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on November 25, 2015, 06:09:25 PM
Got ya.  Yeah, hold position was originally around 20%.  I have it settled at around 35% now.  It liked it.
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: BlackEuropa on November 25, 2015, 08:17:16 PM

Great looking build!

Sorry if I missed it, but how did you end up liking the depowered and delooped rack?
I hear with wide tires and a lot of caster it can be a handful.

I'm prepping an LS3 FD with a manual rack... hopefully I'll find out soon enough.
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: Mik3ymomo on November 25, 2015, 09:09:16 PM

Great looking build!

Sorry if I missed it, but how did you end up liking the depowered and delooped rack?
I hear with wide tires and a lot of caster it can be a handful.

I'm prepping an LS3 FD with a manual rack... hopefully I'll find out soon enough.
(http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view7/3851355/conan-wheel-of-pain-o.gif)
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on November 26, 2015, 12:40:52 PM
LOL @ Mike.... But yeah, true story.
 
For the depowered rack, personally I like it.  For me, it feels and drives great.  I actually have driven my car since day 1 with a looped line.  I pulled the power steering stuff and looped the rack as my first mod.  I just recently depowered the rack completely and it feels just as good.  I'm somewhat a stout dude so wrenching the wheel from a stop isn't an issue for me.  Yes, I have 9" wheels in the front but it doesn't make much difference to me.  It all felt the same really.  I can turn the wheel at a stop with one arm, but again, I'm not a small guy. 
 
It's funny because I believe steering feel is just as individual as those same questions as: driveability good?  is the exhaust loud?  is it too low?..... It really comes down to if you can live with the different feel and annoyance from a stop.
 
On the other side of that coin, my car is a street car.  For street cars it just makes sense to have power steering.  The only time you would want to drop it is if you autocross/race and it holds you back OR you just don't like the feel.  I don't race my car, and the FD power steering was never really an issue.  The main reason I yanked it was to clean up the bay. 
 
I have considered adding power steering back to my car with either a TurnOne pump or the original FD pump with custom bracketry.  A lot of R&D went into the factory steering feel.  If I had it all to do over, I would add power steering.
 
Look at it this way.  If you add P/S and don't like it, you can always sell the parts and depower the rack.  If you depower and don't like it, then you have to find another rack and buy all the parts.  It's easier to work your way down.  ;)
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: Nfinitecc on November 29, 2015, 01:57:11 PM
+1 for personal tastes, I'm running a GTO pump with no modification at all as far as reducers, flow restricted, and I think it feels great, not overpowered at all.
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: Mik3ymomo on November 29, 2015, 03:31:43 PM
+1 for personal tastes, I'm running a GTO pump with no modification at all as far as reducers, flow restricted, and I think it feels great, not overpowered at all.

I never tried the turn one pump or the GTO pump but I have used the restrictor and LS1 pump and have driven stock FD's for years and the LS1 with restrictor felt very overpowered at high rpm.

I have been driving a stock FD again and the steering feel is excellent with the FD pump. I've also driven looped racks and they took considerable effort. Especially in parking lot scenarios.

The proper way to do a manual rack is to put a manual rack in the car. Just keep in mind manual racks usually have a slower ratio and not a faster ratio. Makes them easier to turn. Although there is a custom piece coming out from a group buy from Marvel that's both a fast ratio and manual rack. This will be significant effort to turn in my opinion but we shall see once all these folks get them in their cars.
My opinion is to adapt the FD pump to the accessories with a custom bracket and know you are getting the right amount of power assist to the rack for streetability and steering feel.
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on November 30, 2015, 01:29:18 PM
The FD pump has been done.  The key really is to get the belt ratio right by using a different PS pump pulley.  Mounting the actual pump and adapting the lines looks pretty easy really.
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: wickedrx7 on November 30, 2015, 01:32:33 PM
The FD pump has been done.  The key really is to get the belt ratio right by using a different PS pump pulley.  Mounting the actual pump and adapting the lines looks pretty easy really.



It is easy and one of my favorite mods I have done. I was never happy with ls1 pump and and didn't like no p/s (converted ps rack). I like the stock rx7 feel.
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: halfspec on November 30, 2015, 02:54:30 PM
- Driveshaft -
A driveshaft vibration will be a high frequency.  Whether it's u-joint working angles or balance.  The driveshaft spins 4 times faster than the axles and wheels so when things are out of whack it is a much faster pulse then an out of balance tire.  It almost felt like hitting rumble strips on the highway at speed.  That is why I knew it was a drivetrain issue.  It was just different than anything I had felt before.  You will feel it in the body of the car also.  I didn't feel it in the steering wheel much.  The drivetrain itself will soak up alot of the vibration so what I felt was mostly in the transitional load; when letting off or getting on the gas for that split second.  Easiest way to identify if it's a constant is to just bring it up to speed and pop it in neutral.  It was immediately apparent at that point; it was completely speed dependent and it got worse with speed.  As for having the balance checked, largeorangefont is absolutely correct.  I found a local machine shop that specialized in drivetrains.  He spun it up and balanced it for me.  Be mindful of where you take it.  Any small dent, untrue tube, or even a u-joint retainer clip not completely seated will affect the balance.  I would seek out a place with a reputation and explain what it's doing. 

Thank you for the info Josh. My symptoms are pretty much exactly the same as yours.
Is your driveshaft aluminum? I've got mine out and in my trunk I'm having trouble finding anyone local that will balance an aluminum driveshaft. Frustrating so I'm trying to figure out what my options are. DSS will balance, but I'm not really crazy about sending it back to them since they're most likely the ones that sent it out unbalanced in the first place.

Lane

Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: Exidous on November 30, 2015, 04:06:47 PM
The Turn one pump does NOT feel over powered. I'd say it's just right. My wife says a little heavy but meh.....

I've got a goofy vibe at 2000RPM. REALLY annoying. Have to get the trans off and have a machine shot see if the clutch balance is off. :-(

Also had a vibration at high speed. Pinion angle was off.

I've seen that intake coupler before. Where did you pick that up?
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: Tictakman on November 30, 2015, 04:47:31 PM
What does your fd power steering pump look like?  Have any pics?
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on December 01, 2015, 10:42:01 PM
I've seen that intake coupler before. Where did you pick that up?

- Intake Coupler -

Easy.  I bought this bad boy.

TOG 4 INCH 102 MM 45 DEGREE SILICONE HOSE BEND ELBOW BLACK- 152MM LONG TURBO
http://www.ebay.com/itm/TOG-4-INCH-102-MM-45-DEGREE-SILICONE-HOSE-BEND-ELBOW-BLACK-152MM-LONG-TURBO-/121208073335?hash=item1c38906c77:g:BzwAAOxy5jxSdwNh&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/TOG-4-INCH-102-MM-45-DEGREE-SILICONE-HOSE-BEND-ELBOW-BLACK-152MM-LONG-TURBO-/121208073335?hash=item1c38906c77:g:BzwAAOxy5jxSdwNh&vxp=mtr)

Now finding a 4" coupler was pretty easy... Finding one with 152mm legs was PITA!  This is the only one I could find that gave me enough length on each end to actually reach the throttle body and the filter.  There was more than enough as I had to trim it down.  My air intake sensor is mounted in the intake manifold, and I am MAF absent as the Holley runs speed density.  Works great!

Just needed to scroll up.  ;)
 
Thank you for the info Josh. My symptoms are pretty much exactly the same as yours.
Is your driveshaft aluminum? I've got mine out and in my trunk I'm having trouble finding anyone local that will balance an aluminum driveshaft. Frustrating so I'm trying to figure out what my options are. DSS will balance, but I'm not really crazy about sending it back to them since they're most likely the ones that sent it out unbalanced in the first place.

Lane

My driveshaft is steel.  Aluminum ultimately should be no different than balancing steel.  The guy just needs to be able to weld aluminum stock to pitch the balance right.  Maybe reach a little farther out.  You may have to travel a little.  The good thing about having DSS do it is the service should be free as well as shipping back.
 
What does your fd power steering pump look like?  Have any pics?

 :cheers:
 
http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=20551.0 (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=20551.0)
 
http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=16737.0 (http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=16737.0)





 
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: halfspec on December 03, 2015, 08:42:08 AM
The guy just needs to be able to weld aluminum stock to pitch the balance right. 

That's the problem. Nobody here knows how to Tig aluminum. I'll keep reaching out. In the meantime, I realized that I swapped trans braces while having the car painted. Can't believe I forgot that important detail. I used to be using Kevin Doe's DIY brace, but now I'm back on a Samberg brace. Kevin's brace seemed to be setup with a better alignment with my cobra rear because I didn't notice as much vibration using it. Samberg's probably needs some work. I just got my angle finder in the mail today so I'll be taking a shot at getting it aligned next week. I appreciate all the info you posted. Your post is the first one I've seen suggesting to aim an alignment between 0-3 degrees but not 0.

Lane

Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on December 04, 2015, 12:52:14 PM
The guy just needs to be able to weld aluminum stock to pitch the balance right. 

That's the problem. Nobody here knows how to Tig aluminum. I'll keep reaching out. In the meantime, I realized that I swapped trans braces while having the car painted. Can't believe I forgot that important detail. I used to be using Kevin Doe's DIY brace, but now I'm back on a Samberg brace. Kevin's brace seemed to be setup with a better alignment with my cobra rear because I didn't notice as much vibration using it. Samberg's probably needs some work. I just got my angle finder in the mail today so I'll be taking a shot at getting it aligned next week. I appreciate all the info you posted. Your post is the first one I've seen suggesting to aim an alignment between 0-3 degrees but not 0.

Lane

Yeah man, I will keep an eye on your thread to see how it goes.  Personally, I would just have the balance checked locally.  If it's off, send it back to DSS and have them fix their mistake.

As for working angles, it was a whole new topic for me too.  But it's absolutely critical for a vibration free drivetrain.  Even if my driveshaft had been right, I do believe my angles were off enough to cause issues anyway.  Working through the process likely not only fixed my issues but helped me to understand.

I was going to post my information to Justin's instructional thread if I could.  I know he lists a measurement of 5.5" from center tail shaft to trans tunnel for mounting his crossmember.  Realistically, this is a very arbitrary number.  Depending on what differential, subframe, transmission, or mount you are using; as all of them can change the geometry of the working angles.  I am definitely not knocking Justin's work, but I do believe more explanation is warranted in the installation instructions.  Especially since this is the singular location we are drilling into the body of our cars for a permanent mount.

I will be likely doing another swap in the future for a good friend.  When I do, I won't be drilling holes until the angle finder tells me things are very close to where they need to be.
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: wtfx100 on December 21, 2015, 09:46:02 AM
Never ceases to amaze me how there are so few 7 inch double din sized tablets that offer bulit in GPS.



















Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on February 14, 2016, 05:25:03 AM
No real updates guys.  Life is on hold for awhile as I knock out another deployment.  Plans for the car when I return...

 - Change output shaft seal on Magnum.  Pretty sure my driveshaft got it leaking

 - Get the A/C squared away.  Blew cold but I need to switch to Halfspec's universal wiring kit with safety features.  The Holley isn't controlling system pressure correctly so I will need to depressurize .

 - TUNE!! My street tuning has been going well as I learn the Holley and more about tuning.  The car pulls hard safely, but it needs a professional's touch, and of course dyno pulls.

 - Front cowling.  My bumper has large openings and leaves a lot of space throughout.  I plan to build an undershield and side vents to protect my coils, direct air to the radiator, and keep you from seeing through the bumper to the ground.

 - Holley 3.5" LCD.  It's going to be the perfect add for what I need. 

 - Standard stereo receiver - With the LCD I will have access to all the ecu data and gauges I need.  With that, I will install a nice clean stereo.  Nothing crazy, just something that is quality.

Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: digitalsolo on February 14, 2016, 09:56:27 AM
Looking forward to seeing your next phase come together.   Stay safe!
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on February 15, 2016, 12:30:39 AM
Holley Version 4

After hopping over to the Holley site to see if the 3.5"LCD prices have dropped I also thought I would check out the status of the supposed "Version 4" software that was to be released.  Sure enough, Holley has released it, and what do you know, the 3.5" LCD prices dropped to $250.  :drive:

As I downloaded the PDF file with a quickness, I was anxious to see if Holley stepped up their game in a few areas I thought were lacking.  It looks like they delivered!!  There are too many new features for me to list, but a few I was directly interested in:

    - New map comparison tool.  You can bring up two maps side by side and it highlights the different areas, and allows you to copy over anything you like. 
    - Fuel and Ignition maps per cylinder.
    - Input/output expansion
    - E85 support
    - Tons of additional control for boost, nitrous, and transmission
    - Table additions for almost every type of control.  Boost, timing, mixture by gear, time, fuel pressure, etc.

The only feature I didn't directly read about is if the tach output wire can now be modified for pulses per second from a 4 to 8 cylinder tach.  Currently, I have a PWM output controlling it, and it's not quite accurate.  I will confirm once I download the software.

The biggest smile put on my face was the additional options added for input/output control.  As I originally noted in my thread, and as I wired the Holley to control the A/C system in my car.  I am using Halfspec's LS1 wiring solution.  Essentially, the A/C button gives a signal to the ECU and the ECU decides if it turns on the compressor or not.  Of course like all A/C systems, there should be some conditions.  I use the LS1 pressure sensor as an input that can sense both high and low pressure ranges based on voltage.  The ECU should only turn on the A/C if the pressure range is right, the engine RPM is right, and the A/C button is pushed.  Unfortunately, the I/O conditions couldn't include both sensor activation OR input activation....until now.  I could activate the compressor by switched trigger AND sensor trigger, but not OR. 

Another piece I wanted to do was independently turn on my fans.  This is fine for temperature control, but not for A/C.  The I/O control allowed multiple activations for an output, but those activations as a group were always an "and" function.  Which means if I wanted to have my A/C fans come on staged by temperature or have one independently come on with the A/C activation, I would not be able to do it.  The "or" function was added, and this pleases me.



 - Get the A/C squared away.  Blew cold but I need to switch to Halfspec's universal wiring kit with safety features.  The Holley isn't controlling system pressure correctly so I will need to depressurize .
 



Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: Classy on February 15, 2016, 07:43:24 AM
Coming from the 350Z world, as part of the swap, they have been changing to a speed hut tach for this very reason, so essentially, by going to a Holley EFI you could avoid the tach swap and keep a cleaner more stock looking swap. 

Have fun over there, my buddy just caught a few pieces of an IED and got shot in the leg.
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on February 15, 2016, 07:22:17 PM
Coming from the 350Z world, as part of the swap, they have been changing to a speed hut tach for this very reason, so essentially, by going to a Holley EFI you could avoid the tach swap and keep a cleaner more stock looking swap. 

Have fun over there, my buddy just caught a few pieces of an IED and got shot in the leg.

If only there was a way to modify the pulses per/sec in the software.  Ya know, like HP TUNER or EFI LIVE!!  They have been able to do it forever.  That's one are that really frustrated me with the Holley.  And like Halfspec said earlier, it's almost inexcusable considering how many different cars LS engines go in.  Surely they don't think people are replacing their flexible OEM ecu and harness in a car WITH an LS already in it just to go Holley??  The harness/ecu combo is for SWAPS, and will likely be used for swaps more than anything else. 

Don't get me wrong, the Holley has been pretty good, and I am still definitely pleased with it.  I hope this Version 4 covers the grey areas.

In any case, we shall see how that one goes.  If not, I'll just pick up the Dakota box and make it right.  Version 4 added quite a bit of I/O flexibility with some additional ICF areas.  I am hopeful it's in there.  I still need to download the software, but I am at the mercy of our "morale net"...lol
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on February 16, 2016, 01:28:21 AM
Gauge Setup

I've obviously been looking at the 3.5" LCD mostly as gauge solution.  The other functions are definitely a benefit.  While scanning Holley's site it looks like the did something they have been needing to do for awhile, release some new gauges.  Their original digital gauges were functional, but in my mind hideous.  The new ones look great!  They are CAN and chain together for easy install.  They also have low and high programmable warning lights.  Overall, they look great. 

https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/fuel_injection/gauges_and_displays/analog_style_efi_gauges/ (https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/fuel_injection/gauges_and_displays/analog_style_efi_gauges/)
(https://rspimages.holley.com/553-131.jpg)
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: jayv64 on February 16, 2016, 07:52:26 AM
Is it me, or did Holley just get revolution gauges from Speedhut? It sure looks like it, which is awesome since I already have speedhuts, and the Holley so it will all match....
Title: Re: XLR8's 416 Stroker Dark Side Build
Post by: XLR8 on February 16, 2016, 09:51:56 AM
Is it me, or did Holley just get revolution gauges from Speedhut? It sure looks like it, which is awesome since I already have speedhuts, and the Holley so it will all match....

Yeah man.  They light up white as well.  :)
Title: Re: XLR8's Dark Side Build: 416ci's, a Magnum, and no traction
Post by: XLR8 on April 10, 2016, 05:16:23 AM
My car will be For Sale in the coming months.  I have had a few interested parties that I am talking with already.  Private conversations will occur and depending how things go, there may be a thread posted. 

This car has been a blast owning, and building both as a rotary as well as the LS swap.  However, I feel it's time to move forward to a different direction. 

The car will be dyno'd and a few minor wrap-up projects will be completed before it leaves my garage.

More to come...
Title: Re: XLR8's Dark Side Build: 416ci's, a Magnum, and no traction
Post by: wickedrx7 on April 10, 2016, 08:15:54 AM
WTF?
Title: Re: XLR8's Dark Side Build: 416ci's, a Magnum, and no traction
Post by: coastlineamps on April 10, 2016, 09:03:17 AM
What? That is one of the best builds I was following. I know it is your decision but why all that work and only enjoy the car for a small amount of time?
Title: Re: XLR8's Dark Side Build: 416ci's, a Magnum, and no traction
Post by: MPbdy on April 10, 2016, 01:01:44 PM
V8 regret?
Title: Re: XLR8's Dark Side Build: 416ci's, a Magnum, and no traction
Post by: Mik3ymomo on April 10, 2016, 02:58:59 PM
V8 regret?

Once you have so many hours and dollars in a car you are afraid to drive it and worry about it getting nicked or hit etc.
You start realizing that worry is keeping you from enjoying it with abandon like you thought you could.
Title: Re: XLR8's Dark Side Build: 416ci's, a Magnum, and no traction
Post by: XLR8 on April 10, 2016, 10:52:27 PM
V8 regret?

Once you have so many hours and dollars in a car you are afraid to drive it and worry about it getting nicked or hit etc.
You start realizing that worry is keeping you from enjoying it with abandon like you thought you could.


This.

There are other reasons of course.  The time and financial strain has taken its toll as well.  My life is shifting and owning a car of this magnitude isn't something I can continue to do.  I have made the decision to pursue my CCIE (Cisco Certified Internetwork Expert) Certification, and this is something that will take my complete dedication of time. 

There is ZERO V8 regret, as it has made the car better in a lot of ways.  If it was a rotary car, there would be no difference in my decision to sell.  I have owned my FD for 8 years, and driven it 6k miles.  Now that it is at the level I have always wanted, I find it more relaxing to look at it in the garage rather then opening it up on the road.  I have often owned lesser daily driven cars in order to offset the cost of continuing to build the FD.  Seat time with a car I really enjoy driving has been limited because of this.

I'm not hanging up my hat and buying a Prius.  There are many options on the table of where to go from here, but all of them include driving something that is fun, reliable, and not so exclusive that I reel over every paint chip. 

Title: Re: XLR8's Dark Side Build: 416ci's, a Magnum, and no traction
Post by: digital_hoon on April 11, 2016, 09:54:08 AM
Sorry to hear you're putting it up for sale, but such is life. Priorities always change, but at least you had the opportunity to build it the way you wanted.

Such a great build, whoever is lucky enough to purchase it won't be disappointed!
Title: Re: XLR8's Dark Side Build: 416ci's, a Magnum, and no traction
Post by: coastlineamps on April 11, 2016, 09:56:39 AM
If I may ask. How much for the car?
Title: Re: XLR8's Dark Side Build: 416ci's, a Magnum, and no traction
Post by: mattgold on April 11, 2016, 10:54:23 AM
I totally get it.  Not to sound too sappy, but so many builds are fun because of the journey... the end product is just a bonus.  All my projects have brought me much more joy then when I just cut a check and got a cool car.  However, I'll also concede there are times in life where there just isn't room for a project and cutting a check for something fun is the right decision.

Great build.  Good luck with your CCIE and future life goals.
Title: Re: XLR8's Dark Side Build: 416ci's, a Magnum, and no traction
Post by: MPbdy on April 11, 2016, 11:30:55 AM
I'm glad you don't regret the work you out in. This was an amazing build with no cost spared. Would have been a huge shame to be unhappy with the end product.

These cars are extremely fragile no matter how well built. I have put a lotttt of miles on mine. Like 9000 in the first year. Every time something happens it makes me a little sick. If anything major ever happened I'm not sure I could replace it.

Good luck and excited to see your next choice!
Title: Re: XLR8's Dark Side Build: 416ci's, a Magnum, and no traction
Post by: FC3S Murray on April 11, 2016, 02:00:09 PM
Bummer to read about your decision man BUT I feel your pain. My FC is very clean for its age and I too don't enjoy it as much as I should. Too damn pretty and I know the more minor damage it accrues, the uglier it becomes(it is an FC after all lol) and my hopes of a decent resale value dwindle away.

I actually love driving my cammed 08 Sierra I just wrapped up in March. Not near the stress with road rash, it sounds and runs amazing, tuned it myself so I still get my tinker itch fulfilled and is COMFY Our standards change as we get older no doubt.

Best of luck with the sale and I hope you get some serious $$$ for it!
Title: Re: XLR8's Dark Side Build: 416ci's, a Magnum, and no traction
Post by: largeorangefont on April 11, 2016, 03:21:54 PM
Now you guys see why my FC looks like crap :)

I learned this lesson with RC cars when I was a kid. You never drive it as hard with a freshly painted lexan body.

Good luck with the sale, this is an awesome car. It is a challenge trying to enjoy a car with this kind of power built to this level on the street.
Title: Re: XLR8's Dark Side Build: 416ci's, a Magnum, and no traction
Post by: Dabocx on April 11, 2016, 06:36:04 PM
Did you ever get your wheels redone? In your rx7 build thread you said you were going wider
Title: Re: XLR8's Dark Side Build: 416ci's, a Magnum, and no traction
Post by: XLR8 on April 14, 2016, 10:22:01 PM
Thanks for the input guys.  It's definitely going to be hard to see the car drive/loaded and leaving my driveway.  Nonetheless, I think it's the right choice.

As for price, it will be in the For Sale thread when/if it hits.  I will say my asking price will be high $30's and I'm not budging much.  There is no next project or car I need to fund so if it takes two years to sell the car at my asking price, then so be it.  But I have a feeling it won't take long.  8)

For the wheels, they are still 18x9 front and 18x10 rears.  That will be something the new owner can decide to play with or not.  Honestly, a decent spacer would do just fine to fill the flare but I am confident an 11 rear will fit with a 315.  One good thing about 3 piece wheels is the drums can be purchased individually from Work to simply widen to a specified offset.  Very cost affective as opposed to buying new wheels.
Title: Re: XLR8's Dark Side Build: 416ci's, a Magnum, and no traction
Post by: XLR8 on May 17, 2016, 11:25:19 PM
The journey continues.....

Remember after 3 long movies of Lord of the Rings Froto finally gets to the end.  He knows what he has to do, hell, he spent the entire series working towards this epic goal.  He stands at the edge of the firey volcano to throw in the One ring.  After all the build-up he goes to toss it in and finally do what he knew was the right thing, and he says...."no, it's mine" and walks the fuck off.  That's pretty much me right now.  A nerd's analogy but that's exactly how I feel with this car.  All of the rational reasons to sell the car diminish when I look at it, sit in it, and drive it.  I don't "have" to sell it, it was just a decision that was the conservative look at owning a car like this.  I haven't even enjoyed the car in full form with the LS swap.  I have only experience revisions and fixes.  It has yet to sit in the garage and need nothing; hop in and go with completeness.  So all of the rational justification that I stated to sell the car is easily rebutted on why I should keep it.  It's pretty simple....  I built this car for a reason.  I have insurance for a reason.

Time to wrap it up and DRIVE....  If the time comes later that I need to sell the car then I will, but for now I think I owe it to myself to put the car in full form and enjoy it. 

So the journey continues.  Time to knock out that list, get the car dyno'd and finally enjoy the car that I have been building.

On with the show...
Title: Re: XLR8's Dark Side Build: 416ci's, a Magnum, and no traction
Post by: largeorangefont on May 18, 2016, 12:47:40 AM
Oh thank god.
Title: Re: XLR8's Dark Side Build: 416ci's, a Magnum, and no traction
Post by: XLR8 on May 18, 2016, 01:19:42 AM
More Holley

 http://youtu.be/sZKnidTiOjU (http://youtu.be/sZKnidTiOjU)

 (http://https://youtu.be/YV8_z7WxFPU) http://youtu.be/YV8_z7WxFPU (http://youtu.be/YV8_z7WxFPU)

Hood Pins

http://youtu.be/ZGybZG_tGTI (http://youtu.be/ZGybZG_tGTI)

Title: Re: XLR8's Dark Side Build: 416ci's, a Magnum, and no traction
Post by: coastlineamps on May 18, 2016, 07:56:19 AM
Great news to keep the car. You wont regret it after all that hard work. The best thing is you can appreciate it when you show the car and educate everyone around you what you did. Glad you are back.

 :drive:
Title: Re: XLR8's Dark Side Build: 416ci's, a Magnum, and no traction
Post by: FC3S Murray on May 19, 2016, 09:06:03 PM
[smg id=8281 type=full align=center caption="ahhhhhhh yeeeeaaaahhh"]
Title: Re: XLR8's Dark Side Build: 416ci's, a Magnum, and no traction
Post by: XLR8 on June 11, 2016, 11:30:44 PM
Magnum Leaks and the Fix

Well I am knocking out projects and getting the car closer to full form.  It's very close to me scheduling a dyno day.  The one thing I have been battling since day 1 is transmission fluid leaks.  Once I started driving the car more I realized I had a few leaks.  They have all been fixed and the car's shakedown continues.  Dangerously close to seeing some chassis numbers and the full tune!!  :yay:  Details below...

1.  Output shaft seal - Apparently Tremec ships some of their transmissions with an old design seal as some of their stock is still floating around out there.  I assumed my seal bit the dust due to my out of balance drive shaft.  However, after a little searching it's an apparent issue with many people.  Once they got the new seal, it was good to go.  Well, I was the perfect candidate because my seal was the old design and leaking all over my exhaust.  Not terrible, but any leak is bad news.  A call to GNX7 at Norcal Autogroup (where I purchased my Magnum) and he got Tremec to send me the new design.  Once received, it was apparent the new design was a winner.  It had a steel shell as opposed to the all plastic design of the old one.

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20160522_133135_zpsg2lk5tig.jpg)

2.  Mechanical Speedo Plug - Mark warned me about this little guy.  He said to add RTV to the plug when I installed it and I did.  Still leaked.  Removed and added a 2nd O-ring and RTV... Still leaked.  I was at wits end.  I tried one last time to clean the hole thoroughly, add black oil resistant RTV and see if that fixed the issue.  In the process,  I found an aluminum machined piece from Bowling Performance Transmissions and I believed it would do a better job than the plastic plug design.  Once I started looking closer, I found my shifter was leaking as well.  The shifter was leaking and dropping fluid down that left rear side of the trans since the Magnum sits slightly tilted when mounted up.  What appeared to be a leaking plug was likely the fluid running down and surrounding the plug giving it the illusion it was the source of the leak.  Once the shifter was fixed, I left the plastic plug in place, but I plan to re-inspect and see if the aluminum plug will be used next.   

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/VZM.IMG_20160611_113819_zpsyujkdms7.jpg)

3.  Shifter - Yep, it leaked.  It was the source of the majority of my leaks.  Once removed it was apparent there was a rip in the inner boot.  From what I have learned this is critical for the Tremec Magnum.  There is a gear that sits up towards the shifter housing that sprays fluid much more than a standard T56.  As such, lots of companies have had issues with leaking shifters because of either the lack of a boot or a poor boot design.  I looked at this as an opportunity to try a new shifter on the market so I ordered American Powertrain's White Lightning shifter.  I am nothing short of impressed.  First, the piece is machined perfectly and the quality is on point.  Next, the spring tension is adjustable via Alan key!  Finally, the shifting action is excellent.  I found shifts to be more exact and smoother.  I gave them a call and got it for $347 shipped which was considerably cheaper than their website.  Just ask for the 4" extension as we need it for the FD applicaiton.


(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/VZM.IMG_20160531_221723_zpsu8g568nv.jpg)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/VZM.IMG_20160611_113954_zpsn6ni5odu.jpg)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20160606_190222_zps4fz27uwm.jpg)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20160606_190412_zpscfjhdrpa.jpg)
Title: Re: XLR8's Dark Side Build: 416ci's, a Magnum, and no traction
Post by: XLR8 on June 11, 2016, 11:41:22 PM
Detail and Some Driving

I got a chance to detail the car and do a little driving!  My buddy will be by next weekend and we will do some tuning and videos!!  He is bringing his GoPro. :)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20160529_163943_zpsnlomrd4o.jpg)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20160529_163540_zpstzinr8qg.jpg)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20160529_163522_zpskwhcgy1j.jpg)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20160529_163452_zpsnlcbmnne.jpg)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20160529_163439_zpsj92fohlh.jpg)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20160526_103519_zpsfbehpoo5.jpg)
Title: Re: XLR8's Dark Side Build: 416ci's, a Magnum, and no traction
Post by: Cobranut on June 12, 2016, 02:34:31 AM
Damn nice looking car.  I like the blacked out engine bay components.   :cheers:
Title: Re: XLR8's Dark Side Build: 416ci's, a Magnum, and no traction
Post by: digitalsolo on June 12, 2016, 08:20:09 AM
Agreed, what a great looking ride.
Title: Re: XLR8's Dark Side Build: 416ci's, a Magnum, and no traction
Post by: babillaracing on June 12, 2016, 08:44:35 AM
Sexy car
Title: Re: XLR8's Dark Side Build: 416ci's, a Magnum, and no traction
Post by: XLR8 on June 12, 2016, 02:55:13 PM
Thanks guys.  Yeah, the black and polished scheme always works well.

More updates coming soon. :)
Title: Re: XLR8's Dark Side Build: 416ci's of fun!
Post by: Sho Amo on June 15, 2016, 11:58:03 AM
There's no way Id ever sell a car after putting in all that work and the engine bay ending up like that. I'd rather sell a testicle.


I had an issue with my output shaft seal too and never got a chance to fixing it before I sold it. I bet it had the same problem.

Title: Re: XLR8's Dark Side Build: 416ci's of fun!
Post by: FC3S Murray on June 19, 2016, 01:57:57 AM
As always man, the FD is looking damn clean!! You put my FC to shame with your OCD goodness. Can't wait for the dyno #'s, I bet she don't make sh*t for power :yay:
Title: Re: XLR8's Dark Side Build: 416ci's of fun!
Post by: XLR8 on June 22, 2016, 12:36:31 AM
Dyno Tune Scheduled!

Well gentlemen, the date is set.  July 5th I'll be dropping my car off at B&B Motorsports in Picayune, MS.  It will be getting a full tune including cold starts, idle w/AC, driveability, and dyno.  They are a Holley Dealer and I was told they have loads of experience with them.  I have spoken with Barry the owner a few times and I am confident in the shop's abilities.  I have to say that I get a good vibe just based on the correspondence so far.  Barry was happy to answer every question I had.  He also had some in depth questions about the car followed by explanations of why he was inquiring.  They have nothing but glowing reviews from ground up restorations to drag cars. 

Due to my work schedule I may not be able to be present during the entire process.  It sucks, but there isn't much I can do about that part.  The owner has a large facility with excellent shop insurance and I was told my car will be very well cared for.  It will be stored indoors with their other builds.


I also plan to have them evacuate my A/C of the ES12a and charge it with 134a.  Since ES12a is charged by weight instead of pressure/temp I am having a hard time getting the right amount since the system is custom from the firewall.  I think the R134a will do just fine.  They have a lot of experience with A/C setups as they do many custom configurations for restorations so I think it's the right move to let them handle it.

I'm excited to finally drive the car I built as it was intended.  There are still things to do, but it's finally ready to hit the dyno!!


http://www.b-bmotorsports.com/

Title: Re: XLR8's Dark Side Build: 416ci's of fun!
Post by: XLR8 on June 22, 2016, 01:05:27 AM
Road Shakedown!

All pulls were done with approximately 1/2 to 3/4 throttle, max of 5500rpm and using my current engine dyno break-in tune.  The Holley handled everything well without a hint of knock or funny business.  My idle currently sits at 1k and rests there pretty well. 


I switched my plugs from a TR6 gapped at .040 to a TR55 gapped at .050.  That seemed to smooth out my cruising surge quite a bit.

It pulls VERY strong right now with more power than I will ever need for the street.  I'm looking forward to opening it up on some drag radials. :)


 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVAIYhgpohI&feature=youtu.be#)
Title: Re: XLR8's Dark Side Build: 416ci's of fun!
Post by: mattgold on June 22, 2016, 09:24:50 AM
Dyno Tune Scheduled!

http://www.b-bmotorsports.com/

I'll trust their dyno tuning abilities are better then their web designing abilities.   ;)
Title: Re: XLR8's Dark Side Build: 416ci's of fun!
Post by: XLR8 on June 22, 2016, 04:50:06 PM
Funny, I mentioned their site to Barry and he chuckled saying it's pretty out of date.  Pretty bad I know.
Title: Re: XLR8's Dark Side Build: 416ci's of fun!
Post by: kinger on June 28, 2016, 02:54:13 PM
That was a sweet video!
Title: Re: XLR8's Dark Side Build: 416ci's of fun!
Post by: XLR8 on August 04, 2016, 02:20:14 AM
Dyno

Well, the deed is done.  I decided to take the FD to my original choice of Schexnayder Racing, and I'm glad I did. 

http://www.schexnayderracing.com/ (http://www.schexnayderracing.com/)

Earl, the owner did a great job with the car.  The reason ultimately was because their tuner Scott Evans is a Holley senior member over on their forum.  They use the Holley on all of their track cars and their experience with it shows.  After reading a few of Scott's posts awhile back, I was convinced my car would be in the right hands. Much of the deviation in choice and considering B&B stemmed from them being half the distance. 1.5 hour drive, instead of 3.5 hours.  Nonetheless, I made the further trek to Earl's shop.

They had the car for 3 full days.  Because of my work schedule I only had time to drop it off on a Tuesday, and come pick it back up that Saturday.  I did miss out on a lot of the face to face discussions and seeing the car make pulls in person while taking video, but it is what it is.  The results were still excellent.

So, the NUMBERS.... they aren't impressive.  In fact, when Earl messaged me and told me what it made, I literally laughed out loud.  Why?  Because I know it's just a number and the infamous Mustang dyno is what they used.  When I dropped my car off we sat down and went over everything I wanted them to do, which was basically tune the car in every area: WOT, cruise, idle w/AC, and cold starts.  He warned me they use a Mustang load bearing dyno and their numbers read notoriously lower then pretty much everyone else's. How much lower, I didn't really know.  But as he said, "it will be done right and how it runs is the most important".

So my 416ci LS3 didn't even break 400whp...LMAO


(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/received_10206470116500467_zps2i7narvk.jpeg)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/received_10206470116780474_zpsnz9qsur7.jpeg)

So the question is, what are the REAL numbers???  I don't know, and frankly I don't care.  The car starts, and drives amazing.  I enjoyed cold A/C the entire way home and still breaking them loose in 3rd on a whim.  I fired it up from dead cold and holy shit it idled.  In fact, it drove!!  No surge at light throttle, no stalling.  It drove like I always knew it would once it was sorted out.  I think my cheeks were sore from smiling so much.

I did do a little research on the inertia vs load dyno's and some say the disparity is as high as 140whp difference.  Either way, the car absolutely rips!!  It has gobs of power everywhere and it definitely feels like a 500whp+ Rx7.  Based on feel, I estimate the difference of 140whp to be pretty close to correct.


http://www.badasscars.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=64/category_id=13/mode=prod/prd64.htm (http://www.badasscars.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=64/category_id=13/mode=prod/prd64.htm)

Scott did some very tricky stuff to get the idle solid with A/C.  The combination of my lightweight flywheel, cam, A/C and light rotating assembly gave them a hell of a time making things consistent.  BUT, they got it done.  Using Holley's version 4 advanced section gave him the flexibility to make quite a few custom maps to get things right.  When I picked the car up, we sat down for a good 30 min going through everything he did and what it needed.  I was impressed, and I'm also glad I have been doing my own research/tuning to where I could follow the conversation intelligently.  As he said, with a normal flywheel it would settle in at around an 850rpm idle.  As it sits, it idles solid at 1k, and 1200rpm with A/C engaged.  I don't foresee myself pulling the tranny any time soon to swap flywheels, but if the occasion arises, I will do just that.  It's pretty much a non-issue but for the purpose of the car, I think a heavier flywheel would be more fitting.

So one more thing down..... time for phase III.... otherwise known as "Project Refinement" :D :D :D


Title: Re: XLR8's Dark Side Build: 416ci's of fun!
Post by: Classy on August 04, 2016, 07:32:00 AM
I bet you slept really good last night knowing your car was finally running smoothly.  I am also suprised by the numbers, but as you said, the mustang dynos are heart breakers.
Title: Re: XLR8's Dark Side Build: 416ci's of fun!
Post by: halfspec on August 04, 2016, 08:39:31 AM
A good dyno is definitely the cherry on top. I know the feeling well. I also know it's uncomfortable trusting a shop to take care of something you've heavily invested in for years. Congrats on getting it done  :cheers:

Interested to hear more about this "refinement" business :D

Lane


Title: Re: XLR8's Dark Side Build: 416ci's of fun!
Post by: kinger on August 04, 2016, 11:52:37 AM
That is awesome!  I'm taking mine next week and hoping for the same results regarding drive ability.  Mine is about 90% perfect just want it 100%.  The last 10% make the OCD in us appreciate that way more than a dyno number.  Keep your eyes peered for a dyno day with a local club and run it again to get your 500whp number :) 

Nice build, car looks awesome enjoy the drive! 
Title: Re: XLR8's Dark Side Build: 416ci's of fun!
Post by: XLR8 on August 04, 2016, 01:25:54 PM
I am extremely happy with the tune.  They put in the time to make it right.

I too had the car running pretty good.  My main issues were cold starts, and idle with AC.  I thought cruise was pretty smooth but they made it even smoother.  I had a hint of surge before but now it's completely gone.  All smiles.


PROJECT REFINEMENT:

This phase is going to focus on truly making the car modernized, and dialed-in across the board.  Refining the experience of driving the car around turns, in a straight line, and even around town.  I have said many times that what makes a car feel old is the little things.  The inconveniences, dings, rattling interior, little annoyances, and random things that just haven't been tended to. 

I have been very focused on the swap and getting the car running reliably.  My goal from the beginning was 3 fold: run 10's, win car shows, and do it all very reliably.  But we all have those last order items that are in the back of our minds, but they are at the bottom of the priority list because of the vast undertaking of building a reliable running car.  I could literally not do another thing to the car if I chose; drive, wash, wax, repeat.  But we all know the hobby never ends.  So the short list is as follows:

- Steering- Either electric, OEM Mazda pump, or Turn One.  I want tight precise steering with the right feedback and effort.  It can easily be speed sensitive and ECU controlled.  In fact, one of my goals is to incorporate the Holley V4 ECU. 

- Sound deadening-  I want more.  I will likely pull the entire interior to add either lizard skin or fat mat.  The doors and headliner as well.  Road noise makes a car feel cheap.  If it costs 50lbs then so be it. 

- Sound system- This has been on the list for awhile.  Nothing crazy, but a nice head unit, component speakers, and self powered sub.  I am debating using a GPS double din. 

- Security-  A quality Viper or Howard system is going in.  It will be top notch with a few nice tricks.  I will incorporate GPS tracking and independant power.  The Holley will also likely play a role here.

-Interior Love- This is going to be a fun one.  It really is just bringing the interior up to the level with the exterior.  Of course nothing crazy but it includes all the nice touches that make a car feel premium.
     * New floor mats
     * Momo Champion steering wheel
     * Shift knob
     * New boots
     * Padded map pocket cover
     * USB socket
     * Sakebomb fire extinguisher mount

- Seats-  OEM in alcantara or factory Recaros.  I am still deciding.

- Gauges- All Holley.  ECU driven.  It will be epic.

- Traction Control- Davis Technologies unit will likely go in but I want to see how it grabs with proper tires first.  With a good tire, it may not be needed.

- Roll bar- Likely the Samberg but I'm not certain yet.  The bar is being added for my and my wifes safety, and not really to be able to run a number at the track.  Time will tell but the Samberg piece is just so convenient looking to install.

- Tires-  Proper tires are needed with the power I am making.  I am debating on a drag radial vs an autocross tire.  I am looking for balance and more research is needed.

- Etc...- I can see the list growing but this is a good start.
Title: Re: XLR8's Dark Side Build: 416ci's of fun!
Post by: halfspec on August 04, 2016, 02:20:17 PM
I like the list. I like when people are secure enough to add 50lbs of sound deadening to their racecars ;)

I'll be following the audio system plan / install for sure. I'm actually in the middle of the accumulation phase for a full active 7 channel system for the Merc. If I get it going before you get yours done, I'll share. It's going to break minds on the benz forums. I'm even building a 3D printer to fabricate the bezels and other parts to make it look like a factory install.

Lane
Title: Re: XLR8's Dark Side Build: 416ci's of fun!
Post by: kinger on August 04, 2016, 02:45:57 PM
I am extremely happy with the tune.  They put in the time to make it right.

I too had the car running pretty good.  My main issues were cold starts, and idle with AC.  I thought cruise was pretty smooth but they made it even smoother.  I had a hint of surge before but now it's completely gone.  All smiles.

PROJECT REFINEMENT:

This phase is going to focus on truly making the car modernized, and dialed-in across the board.  Refining the experience of driving the car around turns, in a straight line, and even around town.  I have said many times that what makes a car feel old is the little things.  The inconveniences, dings, rattling interior, little annoyances, and random things that just haven't been tended to. 

I have been very focused on the swap and getting the car running reliably.  My goal from the beginning was 3 fold: run 10's, win car shows, and do it all very reliably.  But we all have those last order items that are in the back of our minds, but they are at the bottom of the priority list because of the vast undertaking of building a reliable running car.  I could literally not do another thing to the car if I chose; drive, wash, wax, repeat.  But we all know the hobby never ends.  So the short list is as follows:

- Steering- Either electric, OEM Mazda pump, or Turn One.  I want tight precise steering with the right feedback and effort.  It can easily be speed sensitive and ECU controlled.  In fact, one of my goals is to incorporate the Holley V4 ECU. 

- Sound deadening-  I want more.  I will likely pull the entire interior to add either lizard skin or fat mat.  The doors and headliner as well.  Road noise makes a car feel cheap.  If it costs 50lbs then so be it. 

- Sound system- This has been on the list for awhile.  Nothing crazy, but a nice head unit, component speakers, and self powered sub.  I am debating using a GPS double din. 

- Security-  A quality Viper or Howard system is going in.  It will be top notch with a few nice tricks.  I will incorporate GPS tracking and independant power.  The Holley will also likely play a role here.

-Interior Love- This is going to be a fun one.  It really is just bringing the interior up to the level with the exterior.  Of course nothing crazy but it includes all the nice touches that make a car feel premium.
     * New floor mats
     * Momo Champion steering wheel
     * Shift knob
     * New boots
     * Padded map pocket cover
     * USB socket
     * Sakebomb fire extinguisher mount

- Seats-  OEM in alcantara or factory Recaros.  I am still deciding.

- Gauges- All Holley.  ECU driven.  It will be epic.

- Traction Control- Davis Technologies unit will likely go in but I want to see how it grabs with proper tires first.  With a good tire, it may not be needed.

- Roll bar- Likely the Samberg but I'm not certain yet.  The bar is being added for my and my wifes safety, and not really to be able to run a number at the track.  Time will tell but the Samberg piece is just so convenient looking to install.

- Tires-  Proper tires are needed with the power I am making.  I am debating on a drag radial vs an autocross tire.  I am looking for balance and more research is needed.

- Etc...- I can see the list growing but this is a good start.

That is where I am at just refining what Halfspec did.  I want to make a rattle free, smooth cruiser that still scares me when I push the go pedal. 

One comment on the interior sound deadening and a very LARGE reason I wanted Halfspecs specific car.  As you know mine is full lizard skin both heat and sound deadening even the roof!  When the car sold from Lane to Mike for that 2 week or so period before I bought it, he got to compare Halfspecs to a near new 19,000 mile swapped 7 I think it was a 95.  His comments were that he no noticed no appreciable difference in a car that had none versus mine that was everything.  In his eyes it wasn't worth it.  That said however this car has a drone issue that while not overpowering is enough to make the car sound like it needs sound deadening.  In fact there have been times I have been driving and thinking man this thing sounds like a tin can!  I think its is the exhaust.  I'm currently reworking it to add a CAT and a borla XR1 multicore with J pipe to give it a smoother, deeper tone and I hope then I will begin to realize the value and hard work it was for Halfspec!  Point being don't assume its the car, unless you really want the work just for something to do :) 

Also comment on traction control, I really could have cared less about this when I bought it, being a believer in stuff wider stickier tires under and it go!  However after having it, I'm doing a 180.  It is simply amazing and one of my most favorite parts of the car.  There is a dial to adjust it from no wheel spin to some.  I find myself leaving it at 15% and I can do badass controlled drifts going around a corner in traffic just to look cool with complete confidence.  I have on occasion had someone follow me into the gas station and I thought I was in trouble instead they say, its so cool that a guy with a fast car can actually drive it!  LOL  If only they knew that wasn't skill it was the TC making me look like a stud haha.  With the power your making it will enhance the fun almost more than the V8 now if your reluctant to step on it in certain situations for fear of going sideways in a instant.  I floor mine around a corner with no fear.  Its amazing. 

I see this"- Seats-  or factory Recaros" What are factory Recaros and where do you find them? 

Awesome build, can't wait to see what you come up with and choices you make!

Title: Re: XLR8's Dark Side Build: 416ci's of fun!
Post by: halfspec on August 04, 2016, 03:27:52 PM
he got to compare Halfspecs to a near new 19,000 mile swapped 7 I think it was a 95.  His comments were that he no noticed no appreciable difference in a car that had none versus mine that was everything. 

Very good data. Before I lizard skinned the car I'd never ridden in a RX7 and to date, my RX7 is the only one I've ever been in so I have never had any means for comparison.

What are factory Recaros and where do you find them? 

(https://media.giphy.com/media/PMPwpWrGFLu80/giphy.gif)

Run Jesse!! Run and don't look back! ;)

Lane




Title: Re: XLR8's Dark Side Build: 416ci's of fun!
Post by: FC3S Murray on August 04, 2016, 10:33:05 PM
Dyno

Well, the deed is done.  I decided to take the FD to my original choice of Schexnayder Racing, and I'm glad I did. 

http://www.schexnayderracing.com/ (http://www.schexnayderracing.com/)

Earl, the owner did a great job with the car.  The reason ultimately was because their tuner Scott Evans is a Holley senior member over on their forum.  They use the Holley on all of their track cars and their experience with it shows.  After reading a few of Scott's posts awhile back, I was convinced my car would be in the right hands. Much of the deviation in choice and considering B&B stemmed from them being half the distance. 1.5 hour drive, instead of 3.5 hours.  Nonetheless, I made the further trek to Earl's shop.

They had the car for 3 full days.  Because of my work schedule I only had time to drop it off on a Tuesday, and come pick it back up that Saturday.  I did miss out on a lot of the face to face discussions and seeing the car make pulls in person while taking video, but it is what it is.  The results were still excellent.

So, the NUMBERS.... they aren't impressive.  In fact, when Earl messaged me and told me what it made, I literally laughed out loud.  Why?  Because I know it's just a number and the infamous Mustang dyno is what they used.  When I dropped my car off we sat down and went over everything I wanted them to do, which was basically tune the car in every area: WOT, cruise, idle w/AC, and cold starts.  He warned me they use a Mustang load bearing dyno and their numbers read notoriously lower then pretty much everyone else's. How much lower, I didn't really know.  But as he said, "it will be done right and how it runs is the most important".

So my 416ci LS3 didn't even break 400whp...LMAO


(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/received_10206470116500467_zps2i7narvk.jpeg)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/received_10206470116780474_zpsnz9qsur7.jpeg)

So the question is, what are the REAL numbers???  I don't know, and frankly I don't care.  The car starts, and drives amazing.  I enjoyed cold A/C the entire way home and still breaking them loose in 3rd on a whim.  I fired it up from dead cold and holy shit it idled.  In fact, it drove!!  No surge at light throttle, no stalling.  It drove like I always knew it would once it was sorted out.  I think my cheeks were sore from smiling so much.

I did do a little research on the inertia vs load dyno's and some say the disparity is as high as 140whp difference.  Either way, the car absolutely rips!!  It has gobs of power everywhere and it definitely feels like a 500whp+ Rx7.  Based on feel, I estimate the difference of 140whp to be pretty close to correct.


http://www.badasscars.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=64/category_id=13/mode=prod/prd64.htm (http://www.badasscars.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=64/category_id=13/mode=prod/prd64.htm)





Thats is too funny man. Yeah you are definitely making 500+ rwhp. Two years ago after I purchased HP tuners and completed my personal re-tune, I scheduled a dyno pull at a diesel performance shop about 70 miles away from home because I didn't want to head back out to Spokane WA to my original dyno I had my car on with my cam only setup (425rwhp) & later my Advanced Induction head swap(475rwhp). The diesel shop had a very large load bearing mustang dyno, I barely fit on the rollers. After a couple pulls it said I was only making 340 rwhp and 300 rwft/lbs (same exact looking result screen software as you posted above). I laughed and said something must be out of calibration on his dyno. The owner said he had a new supercharged mustang run across it and it only made 360 rwhp. He was kind of a "diesels are superior and gassers suck" mentality. We didn't get along and ended up stopping the session because I figured it moot to try ignition timing tuning on a dyno that the owner was sub par with & I didn't know if it was accurate enough to show changes in power output if I adjusted my tune. He was however nice enough not to charge me for the session though. I think he could feel my frustration.

After reading what you just posted, that distasteful dyno session makes more sense now. I didn't even post it up on this forum because I thought the guy was in over his head with his humungo mustang dyno software and didn't have a clue what he was doing.
 
Here is a video of me on the dyno...already starting to argue hehe:
https://youtu.be/qonMlx7Yxi0 (https://youtu.be/qonMlx7Yxi0)

Title: Re: XLR8's Dark Side Build: 416ci's of fun!
Post by: AKINA FC on August 05, 2016, 10:50:48 AM
I now understand why all the guys around here use a mustang dyno for classing :(  According to NASA sanctioning with the conversion factor they use you only make 457.93 WTQ and 435 WHP haha
I know you are making right at 500whp because my lsx block 417 made that with stock LS9 heads, 8.5-1 compression and a sub optimal camshaft for NA purposes!
I am curious as to what your total timing is and what rpm is it all in by.  :cheers:
Title: Re: XLR8's Dark Side Build: 416ci's of fun!
Post by: XLR8 on August 05, 2016, 01:35:55 PM
I like the list. I like when people are secure enough to add 50lbs of sound deadening to their racecars ;)

I'll be following the audio system plan / install for sure. I'm actually in the middle of the accumulation phase for a full active 7 channel system for the Merc. If I get it going before you get yours done, I'll share. It's going to break minds on the benz forums. I'm even building a 3D printer to fabricate the bezels and other parts to make it look like a factory install.

Lane


Thanks.  I have already thought of a few things that will go to the list.  Project refinement is definitely going to take some time and another big chunk of money, but this also makes me happy.  I think a large part of the enjoyment from these swaps is the process.  Once the process is "complete", I just stand there and say "cool, what's next".  But actually having a car that drives awesome now makes that pressure of time much relieved. 

For the sound, I will probably touch base with you on some ideas.  Like all things electronic related, you definitely know your stuff.  Congratts on the Merc purchase btw!!  Glad you found someplace to flex your skills. :)

That is where I am at just refining what Halfspec did.  I want to make a rattle free, smooth cruiser that still scares me when I push the go pedal. 

One comment on the interior sound deadening and a very LARGE reason I wanted Halfspecs specific car.  As you know mine is full lizard skin both heat and sound deadening even the roof!  When the car sold from Lane to Mike for that 2 week or so period before I bought it, he got to compare Halfspecs to a near new 19,000 mile swapped 7 I think it was a 95.  His comments were that he no noticed no appreciable difference in a car that had none versus mine that was everything.  In his eyes it wasn't worth it.  That said however this car has a drone issue that while not overpowering is enough to make the car sound like it needs sound deadening.  In fact there have been times I have been driving and thinking man this thing sounds like a tin can!  I think its is the exhaust.  I'm currently reworking it to add a CAT and a borla XR1 multicore with J pipe to give it a smoother, deeper tone and I hope then I will begin to realize the value and hard work it was for Halfspec!  Point being don't assume its the car, unless you really want the work just for something to do :) 

Also comment on traction control, I really could have cared less about this when I bought it, being a believer in stuff wider stickier tires under and it go!  However after having it, I'm doing a 180.  It is simply amazing and one of my most favorite parts of the car.  There is a dial to adjust it from no wheel spin to some.  I find myself leaving it at 15% and I can do badass controlled drifts going around a corner in traffic just to look cool with complete confidence.  I have on occasion had someone follow me into the gas station and I thought I was in trouble instead they say, its so cool that a guy with a fast car can actually drive it!  LOL  If only they knew that wasn't skill it was the TC making me look like a stud haha.  With the power your making it will enhance the fun almost more than the V8 now if your reluctant to step on it in certain situations for fear of going sideways in a instant.  I floor mine around a corner with no fear.  Its amazing. 

I see this"- Seats-  or factory Recaros" What are factory Recaros and where do you find them? 

Awesome build, can't wait to see what you come up with and choices you make!

Thanks!  The sound deadening does work, but I think it's about the expectation of how well.  It doesn't turn our cars from an Rx7 to a 7-series, but it does help.  The Lizard skin is good stuff, but it is just one step.  Resonant sound of road noise is magnified by shell designs like our doors and rear hatch.  Ideally, cutting off the open areas of the body that magnify the resonance is key.  Of course, if the exhaust is overpowering in loudness, you won't even hear the "road noise", you will hear the drone of the exhaust.  For me, my exhaust volume is perfect.  A little loud for long trips but bearable.  I can still have a conversation with a passenger without screaming at each other, and at idle it just sounds fantastic.  I'm doing more research and I will post my methods and results here.  There is some awesome info out there on specialized audio forums. 

As for the traction control, I can say YEP.  The Davis units are fantastic and completely controlled by the Holley.  I think it's a wise add for such a small car with so much torque on tap.  Like you said, it's not always there to keep every slip at bay, but rather keep the slips controlled and consistent.  And if I hit some nasty rain, a few clicks of the knob and I am in a more viable comfort zone.  Good stuff!


That is too funny man. Yeah you are definitely making 500+ rwhp. Two years ago after I purchased HP tuners and completed my personal re-tune, I scheduled a dyno pull at a diesel performance shop about 70 miles away from home because I didn't want to head back out to Spokane WA to my original dyno I had my car on with my cam only setup (425rwhp) & later my Advanced Induction head swap(475rwhp). The diesel shop had a very large load bearing mustang dyno, I barely fit on the rollers. After a couple pulls it said I was only making 340 rwhp and 300 rwft/lbs (same exact looking result screen software as you posted above). I laughed and said something must be out of calibration on his dyno. The owner said he had a new supercharged mustang run across it and it only made 360 rwhp. He was kind of a "diesels are superior and gassers suck" mentality. We didn't get along and ended up stopping the session because I figured it moot to try ignition timing tuning on a dyno that the owner was sub par with & I didn't know if it was accurate enough to show changes in power output if I adjusted my tune. He was however nice enough not to charge me for the session though. I think he could feel my frustration.

After reading what you just posted, that distasteful dyno session makes more sense now. I didn't even post it up on this forum because I thought the guy was in over his head with his humungo mustang dyno software and didn't have a clue what he was doing.
 
Here is a video of me on the dyno...already starting to argue hehe:
https://youtu.be/qonMlx7Yxi0 (https://youtu.be/qonMlx7Yxi0)

Yep, I felt the same way.  Confused but still sure of what my setup could do.  I know what that engine makes, and what others built with similar specs make.  There is also the LA factor.  95 degree weather and suffocating humidity...lol.  Ironically, in the link I posted they say 140whp difference between inertia/load bearing dynos, and to get the flywheel numbers you divide by .85.  Sure enough, that math puts my flywheel numbers identically to what the original engine dyno'd when it was built, 637hp.  (400hp + 140hp) / .85 = 635hp.  So is it safe to say it would make 500-540whp on a Dynojet in nice weather?  Probably.

Another thing happened with my car that they mentioned.  He told me during one WOT pull they felt my clutch slip in 4th for a split second, and then grab.  He told me it only did it once, but it was something to keep in mind.  Of course my reply was NO WAY.  I am using a Mcleoud RXT rated for 1,000ftlbs.  It was installed and broken in correctly.  He said, well, with the car strapped down like that, my dyno puts a tremendous load on the car.  Is it possible it exceeded the rating of the clutch or at least put it at its limit, quite possibly.  That further reinforces the low number scenario.  The car drives great and the clutch feels fine.  I doubt I will every have issues with it going down the road, but I found what he told me to be very interesting.

I may put it on a Dynojet one day to get the big numbers, but for me, that money is better spent in other areas.  I'm not really concerned about telling people how much power it makes.  All they really need to do is come take a ride. ;)

I now understand why all the guys around here use a mustang dyno for classing :(  According to NASA sanctioning with the conversion factor they use you only make 457.93 WTQ and 435 WHP haha
I know you are making right at 500whp because my lsx block 417 made that with stock LS9 heads, 8.5-1 compression and a sub optimal camshaft for NA purposes!
I am curious as to what your total timing is and what rpm is it all in by.  :cheers:

LOL.  Yep, the old dyno manipulation factor.  It's funny because while I was at Earl's shop, we talked about "the numbers" and how his dyno is so different.  He told me that he flat out tells his customers that if they are looking for big numbers, go elsewhere, but if they are looking for a nailed down tune, they came to the right place.  He said while sitting around BSing over some beers, he had another shop admit to putting a hair dryer on the temp sensor of their Dynojet to inflate an even higher correction number.  Hey, numbers sell.  And sometimes people give people what they want to hear.  Does that make their ported heads and flashy cam garbage, of course not.  It just makes it seem like they had more effect then they actually did.  The seat of the pants feels great, and they walk away none the wiser. 

Total timing is 26 degrees and it hits at around 3k above 75kpa.  Scott said 26 provided the best torque without a hint of knock.  I attached a pic of my timing table so you can see a more comprehensive view.

The idle timing isn't actually 20 degrees.  It's 7... lol.  Scott used some Advanced maps to reduce timing flare after startup and as coolant temps rise.  I was blown away at 7 degrees, but he said it likes it and provided the most stable idle.  It was a far cry from the 30 degrees I was running as I pulled in to his shop. 
Title: Re: XLR8's Dark Side Build: 416ci's of fun!
Post by: XLR8 on August 05, 2016, 01:49:01 PM
FREE Global Folder Attached!!

I am sharing my current tune.  This will work for Holley HP or Dominator EFI using Version 4 firmware.  If anyone is using a similar setup, I hope this helps.  Keep in mind, the Advanced tab is running some unique maps to manipulate my idle, and timing.  This map uses a combo of Alpha-N and Speed density.  This was needed to stabilize my idle with the cam and light flywheel while running the A/C.  I am also using the Holley to control my A/C, so the I/O config will have a unique setup.  It has pretty much completely learned, and drives my car very well.  Of course, details of my setup are all throughout my thread.

If anyone has any questions about using this global folder on their car, or questions about the Holley ECU, please feel free to ask.  I will help as much as I can.

Disclaimer: I am not responsible for the effects this tune has on your car, or engine.  Proceed at your own risk.
Title: Re: XLR8's Dark Side Build: 416ci's of fun!
Post by: kinger on August 05, 2016, 03:16:55 PM

The idle timing isn't actually 20 degrees.  It's 7... lol.  Scott used some Advanced maps to reduce timing flare after startup and as coolant temps rise.  I was blown away at 7 degrees, but he said it likes it and provided the most stable idle.  It was a far cry from the 30 degrees I was running as I pulled in to his shop.

I was briefly entertaining the idea of purchasing Halfspecs HP tuners Pro and trying to smooth the tune myself.  While researching I read a lot about this on the hptuner board, to pull timing in the idle circuits to really low levels like your talking.  It seems fairly consistent on street cars.  It seems the bigger the cam the more this helps.  I am excited at the prospect of posting my PERFECTLY running tune next week now! 
Title: Re: XLR8's Dark Side Build: 416ci's of fun!
Post by: XLR8 on August 06, 2016, 10:15:20 PM

The idle timing isn't actually 20 degrees.  It's 7... lol.  Scott used some Advanced maps to reduce timing flare after startup and as coolant temps rise.  I was blown away at 7 degrees, but he said it likes it and provided the most stable idle.  It was a far cry from the 30 degrees I was running as I pulled in to his shop.

I was briefly entertaining the idea of purchasing Halfspecs HP tuners Pro and trying to smooth the tune myself.  While researching I read a lot about this on the hptuner board, to pull timing in the idle circuits to really low levels like your talking.  It seems fairly consistent on street cars.  It seems the bigger the cam the more this helps.  I am excited at the prospect of posting my PERFECTLY running tune next week now! 

If I had an OEM ECU car, I would be purchasing whatever edit software my tuner used as well.  In this game, information is your friend and being able to do things for yourself is your weapon of choice.  Paying a professional to tune my car was the way to go in my eyes.  It catapulted my "ok" running car into a car I can enjoy.  But I am under no illusion that I will not need to make changes in the future or setup new features as they are introduced to my setup.

If nothing more than to "move your fan temps to a different range", having the ability to edit your own tune is very valuable.  At the end of the day no tune is "perfect".  You will want the ability to modify things under conditions that may have not been visited in the hands of the professionals.  These conditions can become apparent the first time you fire the car up on a 30 deg cold morning.

As for the timing on my setup, and even correct AFR's, I searched heavily on the Holley forum and HP Tuner forum to find inputs on what others did with a similar setup.  It was a touch search.  The general consensus was most cam'd cars like a lot of timing at idle, and less so during cruise.  Nonetheless, the difference in what was read and even what you found is always different with each setup.  Head porting, compression, dynamic compression, cam, and even externals like exhaust/intake play a role in what makes the smoothest knockless torque curve for timing and AFRs.  It's really fascinating to me and a lot of the reason I want to continue learning to tune.  As Scott spent a solid 30 minutes going through my tune with me, I felt a little accomplished that I was right in step with what he was saying.  I knew the why, I just didn't have the experience and tools to do the how. 

It definitely lets my inner geek shine.  I teach computer networking for the Air Force, and thoroughly enjoy that vast world.  It's a world, like cars, that constantly shows me how little I know.
Title: Re: XLR8's Dark Side Build: 416ci's of fun!
Post by: FC3S Murray on August 06, 2016, 11:25:42 PM
Not to sound cocky but I'm gonna, my tune is perfect  8)

BUT then again I have over 90+ hours invested into it.  :'( I also am a glutton for punishment because I run a MAF/Speed Density combo which is extremely hard to get perfect. I got there but it would have been a whole lot easier to just go speed density only. I like a challenge, especially when people are so quick to say it's not worth it or too hard to accomplish. 

Nothing beats learning and doing it yourself if TIME PERMITTING. I spent tons of my annual leave to tune myself because after 3:30 pm I am a very busy married family man/father.

If I would have had access to a credible lsx tuner locally, no doubt I would have went that route. Montana makes things difficult at times.

On another note, looking at your base timing map your lower KPA area sure has some low timing numbers. You can get away with much more advance there for improved mileage and effortless light throttle torque(as if we need anymore lol). I don't expect you to change it but just FYI when ever you want to make subtle changes when boredom kicks in ;)

 I attached what my 11:1 LS"6" likes (0.80 g/cyl is around 95kpa)



[smg id=8464 type=preview align=center caption="IMG 20160806 214831"]
Title: Re: XLR8's Dark Side Build: 416ci's of fun!
Post by: XLR8 on August 07, 2016, 01:46:43 AM
Thanks!  I tried more timing at cruise beforehand, and had a hint of surge.  This of course was before my AFR's were closer to where they should be as well but not a ton off.  I had cruise around 14.4:1.  I tried quite a few combo's but could never get it as smooth as it is.  I was really kind of surprised when I first looked things over.  My timing map is, well, simple.  What cam are you running?
Title: Re: XLR8's Dark Side Build: 416ci's of fun!
Post by: FC3S Murray on August 07, 2016, 02:15:13 AM
It's a mild cam, 228r(114lsa, .589 lift, 228 duration on both I & E). I didn't know you tinkered with your map, that's the best way get a ball park feel for what your engine likes.

Your timing MAP is simple for sure but if it works, it works :) we need to see some video of that thing ripping at WOT.

Title: Re: XLR8's Dark Side Build: 416ci's of fun!
Post by: XLR8 on August 07, 2016, 10:32:32 PM
It's a mild cam, 228r(114lsa, .589 lift, 228 duration on both I & E). I didn't know you tinkered with your map, that's the best way get a ball park feel for what your engine likes.

Your timing MAP is simple for sure but if it works, it works :) we need to see some video of that thing ripping at WOT.



Yeah, I pretty much tuned everything from 75kpa and below.  Since the engine dyno session did virtually nothing for driveability or idle, I was left to my own to get it running.  ZBrown really helped a ton in the beginning.  Once I did more research and got a feel for things, I got it running "ok".

My cam is a 231/247 .619 112LSA.  It's common among the LS7 crowd.  Good street cam for torque, and a nice thump down low. 

Oh man, you're telling me on the videos.  A GoPro is on the list.  I definitely need to make some similar quality ones as the last compilation. 

Title: Re: XLR8's Dark Side Build: 416ci's of fun!
Post by: scuter83 on August 08, 2016, 08:59:51 AM
For XLR8 and FC Murray, do you guys have an EQR timing map as well or just have everything loaded into a base map?  Just curious how other people have chosen to set it up compared to OEM.
Title: Re: XLR8's Dark Side Build: 416ci's of fun!
Post by: FC3S Murray on August 08, 2016, 10:16:46 AM
On my RX7, I only have a high & low octane base ignition timing MAP(the older LS1 0499 operating system was limited in certain capabilities & processes). Now my E38 pcm in my 2008 1500 Sierra has many Equivalent Ratio timing MAPs. I have them zero'ed out because my base map is already commanding max timing that is safe for my heavy ass truck chassis.

From the factory though, those EQ ratio timing MAPs would prove beneficial for added power depending on outside air temp given the OEM ign timing base map is way way conservative and your full throttle (power enrichment) fueling is rich enough to still allow for safe AFR's with the added timing.
Title: Re: XLR8's Dark Side Build: 416ci's of fun!
Post by: XLR8 on August 08, 2016, 12:40:09 PM
For the Holley there is the base timing map then additional designated modifiers.  Add/reduce timing with air temp, and water temp. 

However, with the Advanced tables of version 4 you can build virtually any modifier and activate it to a separate 3d table.  For example, knock sensed at X rpm with Y air temps, and Z coolant temps will enable timing map 1 for X seconds or until another condition is met.  Much can be done here.
Title: Re: XLR8's Dark Side Build: 416ci's of fun!
Post by: XLR8 on September 24, 2016, 06:24:41 PM
Back to a steel flywheel

I decided to take the plunge and go back to a steel flywheel.  The aluminum was nice for fast revs but just wasn't friendly with my cam, A/C, and purpose of the car.  Wanting to do it right, I ordered another new Mcleod RXT with their 30lb steel flywheel.  I sold my other setup complete to a member and he is very happy.

The install went well.  With some advices and a fresh assembly from GNX7 I got it done.  The Magnum was a bear to drop.  As suspected, my rear main seal was leaking so I had a perfect opportunity to fix that as well.  100% leak free and a fresh clutch in place.  Unfortunately, I now have to break it back in..lol. 

It drives SOOOO much better.  The inertia of the 30lb flywheel just helps everything.  It was the right move.  I got the idle down to 900rpm and it just feels much happier.


(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20160905_144656_zpsniblh7yg.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20160905_144656_zpsniblh7yg.jpg.html)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20160905_145559_zpsbgcouhy5.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20160905_145559_zpsbgcouhy5.jpg.html)

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/iliv2xlr84fun/My%20FD/20160905_151904_zpsnii8bwb4.jpg) (http://s175.photobucket.com/user/iliv2xlr84fun/media/My%20FD/20160905_151904_zpsnii8bwb4.jpg.html)


Title: Re: XLR8's Dark Side Build: 416ci's of fun!
Post by: XLR8 on September 25, 2016, 01:22:04 PM
Well, the time has come... Selling

Much of this post may look like a regurgitation of what I said last year, that's because honestly, it is.  A lot of the reasoning I have had in the past and posted about is becoming more and more of a reality.  As I have said, my life is shifting and owning a car of this magnitude isn't something I can continue to do.  I have mentioned the decision to pursue my CCIE (Cisco Certified Inter-networking Expert) Certification, and this is something that will take my career to another level.  For those that may not know, obtaining this certification is a massive feat.  Most who obtain it pass the written exam but the 8 hour lab often takes 3-4 tries.  It's a huge undertaking financially ($1500 per try) and all consuming with my time to study.  It will take me a few years just to prepare for this beast.

There is ZERO regret, as everything I have done has made the car better in virtually every way.  Before, I was a little reserved about the price I wanted for the car.  I'm a perfectionist and there is always a list of things I "feel" the car deserves.  Since time has past and I have continued to make the car better, and work out the quirks, I feel good about passing it on in its current state.  The car is tuned, reliable, and absolutely rips. 

As I have said, I'm not hanging up my hat and buying a Prius.  There are many options on the table of where to go from here, but all of them include driving something that is fun.  I've been eye balling the new M2, C7, and even a Focus RS.  Time will tell where it goes, but it's not a decision I need to make immediately. 

So the sale... 

I will be listing the car on here eventually.  I have formulated a for sale ad that will eventually get posted.  If anyone is interested in my car, please just PM me so we can talk.  It's funny, I mentioned considering it on Facebook and have had a few people contact me already.  I guess word travels fast.  I would absolutely prefer to sell my FD to an enthusiast here.  These cars are special.
Title: Re: XLR8's Dark Side Build: 416ci's of fun!
Post by: largeorangefont on September 25, 2016, 08:40:38 PM
What side of the IT spectrum are you looking at or at now? Customer side? Reseller/Manufacturer? Consultant?
Title: Re: XLR8's Dark Side Build: 416ci's of fun!
Post by: digitalsolo on September 26, 2016, 09:30:25 AM
Hah, there are a few guys on my team studying for CCIE.   I'm doing my CCNP right now because it's hilariously easy (just did a 960+ on my SWITCH with about 20 minutes of studying, LOL).   I'm probably going to aim to knock out written CCIE in the next 18-24 months, once things settle down a bunch.    CCIE is a SOB, my buddy took the written without any studying a couple months ago (Cisco Live! Vegas) and managed a ~500, which isn't bad for off the cuff.    The lab is just evil though.
Title: Re: XLR8's Dark Side Build: 416ci's of fun!
Post by: freeskier7791 on September 26, 2016, 04:33:50 PM
Good luck on the test and the sale.  I have gotten to drive the M2 on a track and it is pretty ridiculous, plus the exhaust note/turbo sounds is killer.
Title: Re: XLR8's Dark Side Build: 416ci's of fun!
Post by: XLR8 on September 26, 2016, 10:55:04 PM
What side of the IT spectrum are you looking at or at now? Customer side? Reseller/Manufacturer? Consultant?

Time will tell.  Building my resume, and staying current.  9 years left on the active duty side so there are still tremendous opportunities out there.

Hah, there are a few guys on my team studying for CCIE.   I'm doing my CCNP right now because it's hilariously easy (just did a 960+ on my SWITCH with about 20 minutes of studying, LOL).   I'm probably going to aim to knock out written CCIE in the next 18-24 months, once things settle down a bunch.    CCIE is a SOB, my buddy took the written without any studying a couple months ago (Cisco Live! Vegas) and managed a ~500, which isn't bad for off the cuff.    The lab is just evil though.

HAHA.. Cool!!  I have a a close friend that took the written, and of course, failed the lab; and he is good.  Yes, the lab is evil.  Anthony Sequeira said the accomplished CCNP needs 600-800hrs of comprehensive labs to be successful at the CCIE Lab.  The shit is truly no joke.  Complete dedication.

I agree, Switch is pretty easy.  Route is a little more involved, and Tshoot is just plain fun! 

I would love to be a multi-CCIE holder but Route/Switch is the true stepping stone.  My masters will be in Cyber Security so it would be great to get more involved with ASA's.  It often becomes an environmental limitation but there are some great resources out there.

Good luck on the test and the sale.  I have gotten to drive the M2 on a track and it is pretty ridiculous, plus the exhaust note/turbo sounds is killer.

Thanks!  I have never really considered myself an expert in my field.  Not truly.  I want to change that.  My personality pushes me to go all the way on something I am passionate about, as this thread shows. 

As for the M2, I am leaning that direction.  I have to drive everything of course since currently it's been a bunch of arm chair guessing and youtube reviews.  The M2 has alot of perks over some of the other choices.  M cars historically retain their value better and it sounds like BMW has really hit a home run.  Though I don't want to get into the "rare and unique" game again, the M2 seems like it will be more of an occasion on the road comparatively.

Thanks all