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Author Topic: Build my LS1 or go LS3?  (Read 5499 times)

Offline Kaotic

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Build my LS1 or go LS3?
« on: October 18, 2010, 03:50:36 PM »
Ok so here's the deal.

I've been wanting to build the LS1 in the FD for a while now. I've been talking a lot with Thunder Racing and doing Trick Flow 215 heads with all of the supporting parts and pair it up with their RapTR cam.

Here's the problem. I have the ability to get an LS3 long block for a little less than what Thunder Racing quoted me for the head/cam combo. 

I'm stuck on which way to proceed now.



I'm using the HSC kit with an '00 LS1/T56 combo that i've been running for a while now.
What would be required to get the LS3 to replace my LS1 in my FD?

93 R1- '00 LS1/T56  Lexus Graphite Grey Pearl, Burnout Widebody, 19" Sevas S-Stars

Offline ablake211

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Re: Build my LS1 or go LS3?
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2010, 04:04:19 PM »
Wow how cheap are you getting and LS3 longblock?

My advice here is that the LS3 longblock for the same price might have a little less power stock but the drivability will be much better. Not to mention down the road you could do a cam-only LS3 and probably kill the H/C LS1 numbers.

Offline RX7what

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Re: Build my LS1 or go LS3?
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2010, 04:39:51 PM »
LS3. The LS3 heads probably flow better than than the trick flow LS1 heads anyways. Just put a cam in the LS3 and drive 8)
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Offline mattster03

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Re: Build my LS1 or go LS3?
« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2010, 05:59:04 PM »
How much horsepower does Thunder racing say you'll make with that H/C combo? Somewhere in the neighborhood of 450rwhp?
1993 Mazda RX7 R1, LS1/T56, EPS 230/238, TSP Ported heads
10.826 @ 128 , 1.53 60' - SOLD

Feature Article - http://www.importmeet.com/blog/2012/03/29/best-of-both-worlds-v8rx7guys-ls1-swapped-1993-mazda-rx-7/
Build & Race Compilation Video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMyojHnA1ok
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Offline Kaotic

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Re: Build my LS1 or go LS3?
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2010, 06:16:26 PM »
470-480 at the wheels with supporting mods like the FAST IM/TB a larger MAF and tuned.
93 R1- '00 LS1/T56  Lexus Graphite Grey Pearl, Burnout Widebody, 19" Sevas S-Stars

Offline GEAUX FAST

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Re: Build my LS1 or go LS3?
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2010, 06:19:25 PM »
Have you talked with Futral motorsports? I personally have never dealt with either, but some people around here say great things about allen and that group at futral. He has a pretty nice list of records for LS motors for a pedigree. Maybe it will help you compare apples to apples. Once again I personally have not dealt with either of them. good luck
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Offline V8Mongrel

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Re: Build my LS1 or go LS3?
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2010, 06:32:55 PM »
Here is what I see the LS3 bringing to the table:
  • More CID
  • More head flow
  • OE build consistency
  • Less money

I'll give you five bullet points for the built LS1 to trump that.

Offline ProjectD

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Re: Build my LS1 or go LS3?
« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2010, 06:42:11 PM »
470-480 at the wheels with supporting mods like the FAST IM/TB a larger MAF and tuned.
That's about the power I hope to make out of my cam only ls2 with ls3 style heads. Mine should be a bit less.

1 more vote for the ls3/more cubes

Offline 65imp

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Re: Build my LS1 or go LS3?
« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2010, 08:56:10 PM »
Here's ls3 flow #'s:
Lift---Intake (cfm)---Exhaust (cfm)
0.100
0.200 151 111
0.300 208 152
0.400 256 174
0.500 294 183
0.600 316 189


Here's the trickflows:
Trickflow   0.100   0.200   0.300   0.400   0.500      0.600   
Intake   68.6       147.8   218.9   267.0   309.7      327.6      
Exhaust   56.0       113.5   175.2   216.6   229.3      238.9

With the ls3 you get 30 more cubes though. 

you planning to mod the ls3?  Does the ls3 longblock price include the ecu?  If not have you accounted for the cost of the knock sensor relocation, DOD removal, crank position sensor adjustments and other changes you will have to make to use the ls3?  Those costs add up.  Add that to the price of the pullout. 
If you are getting the ecu, then the ls3 is more tempting, as you won;t even need to tune it. 

Ls3 often will make about 390 rwhp, vs. the manufacturer claim of 470-480rwhp for the ls1 setup.  Obviously the ls3 would have better drive-ability, but it would be down 80-90 hp. 

I think you could go either way, but with the stated info you gave I would go with the upgraded ls1. 

I see the ls1 as having the following:
-more power with your stated setup. 
-more aggressive, race oriented feel
-less adaptation to your current wiring, and ecu.
 
absolute power corrupts absolutely  :yay:

Offline Kaotic

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Re: Build my LS1 or go LS3?
« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2010, 09:22:41 PM »
I would be running the ls1 accessories, wrinig harness, and ECU.
I'm unaware of the modifications you listed.
Could you elaborate?

So far I've only figured out I would need the pulse converter and a cable acuated throttle body. I wanted to ask here first before I dedicated myself to this deal.


And no, I do not plan on leaving the LS3 stock if I go that route. Also would I have to ditch my 1 3/4" JTR headers?
93 R1- '00 LS1/T56  Lexus Graphite Grey Pearl, Burnout Widebody, 19" Sevas S-Stars

Offline bergls1

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Re: Build my LS1 or go LS3?
« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2010, 09:47:51 PM »
I would go a mild LS3 over a built up gen 3. I have a mostly stock LS1 and like it just fine, but since the car was built, my interest in the car is more than I thought it be. Now I wish I would have went with a little more power. The older I get, the less I'm buying into the aftermarket hype. I'm sure the TFS heads put out some nice numbers in an optimized set up; intake, throttle body, big cam, injectors, required roller rockers, etc, etc. However, the improvement (for a hobby car anyway) is really incremental over a cammed LS6 style head/motor. The LS3 (with bigger bore block) heads are going to be even better, allowing you to make more power with a lightly sprung (read -reliable for a long time) cam. I think you actually give up a few things with alot of aftermarket heads; most have heavier valves as part of their flow formula, bronze valve guides instead of the durable factory sintered metal...you get maybe a little more for alot more $$$. If you want big, big power go with a blower. The LS3 with a little cam will be much nicer in the long run than a "big build" LS1. I'm not an expert, but I've blown enough money on hot rodding things in my life and I've found that in the long run its hard to beat the OEM engineered stuff overall, especially for the money. Good Luck, Berg
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Offline Tommy

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Re: Build my LS1 or go LS3?
« Reply #11 on: October 19, 2010, 10:45:14 AM »
The LS3 has the 58 tooth reluctor
the cam sensor is in the timing cover
knock sensors on the pan rail
you will need an LS3 vette or Camaro intake manifold
MAP sensor adapter
LS3 offset rockers
LS3 or Gen IV specific cam
LS2/LS3 timing cover (cam sensor)

LS1 accessories bolt up
JTR headers will work perfectly. You don't need 1 7/8 primaries.  Documented over and over by builders.
Parted and sold out

Offline mattster03

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Re: Build my LS1 or go LS3?
« Reply #12 on: October 19, 2010, 10:52:05 AM »
Would you be getting the "as cast" heads or the touched up ones? Also, would you be running the suggested roller tip rockerss? The only reason I'm asking is b/c I am shooting for a 450 rwhp+ H/C upgrade myself this winter and really like the new trickflow heads... but wondering if they're worth the extra $$$
1993 Mazda RX7 R1, LS1/T56, EPS 230/238, TSP Ported heads
10.826 @ 128 , 1.53 60' - SOLD

Feature Article - http://www.importmeet.com/blog/2012/03/29/best-of-both-worlds-v8rx7guys-ls1-swapped-1993-mazda-rx-7/
Build & Race Compilation Video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMyojHnA1ok
Swap Info - http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2801662

1986 Mazda RX7 GXL, LT1/T56 "Retired"
Swap Info - http://www.cardomain.com/ride/641869

Offline talkstometal

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Re: Build my LS1 or go LS3?
« Reply #13 on: October 19, 2010, 03:17:44 PM »
this is a great thread.  I am in the same boat.  build a high dollar ls1 or a cam-only swap ls3. 

I would like to see your price sheet.  what is thunder racing quoting for all their parts?/plus tune VS.
ls3/plus all other conversion parts to swap from a ls1 to ls3?

great to know that all the front acc fit.  and the headers.  so the ls3 is the same dimensions externally as the ls1?(trans is in the same spot?)

Offline digitalsolo

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Re: Build my LS1 or go LS3?
« Reply #14 on: October 19, 2010, 04:37:04 PM »
so the ls3 is the same dimensions externally as the ls1?(trans is in the same spot?)

Yes.
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