April 19, 2024, 08:53:14 PM

Author Topic: FD Explorer 8.8 Diff Kit  (Read 210428 times)

Offline frijolee

Re: Announcing FD Explorer 8.8 Diff Kit
« Reply #90 on: September 16, 2013, 07:36:32 PM »
Status update:

If you've been following this thread you know that we weren't quite content with our implementation of the fore/aft tubing arrangement. When we decided the floor boards weren't appropriate to mount to, the assembly became quite large in order to run all the way up to the front subframe mount locations.

After some feedback from folks on here we decided to take one more round back at the drawing board to see if we could simplify the structure.  The good news is that we're finally happy with it and first article fitment is complete (pictures below).

The bad news...  There's no way that the front mount can be a bolt in arrangement and mount from above without it using the long fore-aft tubes..  Looking at the subframe itself there's just no parallel surfaces anywhere on the thing so in order to make it bolt-in we'd be into so really elegant machined bits (translation $$$) that would still add weight in order to make a less effective joint. 

So if we give up on that one goal that brings us to the actual progress.















Subframe interface locations are similar to Paul3rdGen's subframe addition for the stock diff.  We are going to extra effort to spreading out the load into the input points as possible, The top member connects directly in line with the middle of the 3 subframe mount points (a big OEM bolt) so the load path is good.  The bracket that holds the rear brake line Y will need to be bent slightly downward (already done in the pics shown).  The part indexes into the crook where vertical wall meets flange at either end of the continuous bar so it should land the same for everyone.  Since folks now have to weld this in, we're also planning to include doubler plates for the tie rod interfaces (which Speedfab was kind enough to point out being a weak link for high HP builds).  You can weld those in (or not) at the same time.

Note, if weld-in is a deal breaker for any of our testers please advise and we'll get you a refund.  Otherwise we're moving forward.  We recognize that weld-in may limit our market somewhat but I'm convinced that bolt in cannot be done in a manner we'd be happy with.  We try to design the parts we'd want to run ourselves.

Last question:  We've already test fit this in car andit cleared all structure w/o issue.  However, the test car wasn't running stock fuel lines.  The stock lines are going to be mighty close so if folks are still running them you may need to push lines forward and/or dimple of the backside of the seat bin buldges.  If folks prefer we could move the cross bar back a bit further but doing do would require you to clearance ribs on the case of the diff since we're close to those already.  If it came to some extra cutting on the diff housing vs massaging the backside of seat bins and fuel lines which would you prefer?  It's possible it could require a bit of each, but I don't want to drop down on tube size if I can help it.

Appreciate the candid advice we've been getting and look foward to getting these out to users.  I've had FD halfshafts sitting on the shelf taunting me for too long.

-Joel Payne
(for Ronin Speedworks)
« Last Edit: September 17, 2013, 09:15:34 PM by frijolee »
LS2 stroker FC, Mandeville big brakes, widebody, etc
Build thread:  http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=1274.0
www.roninspeedworks.com

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Offline Jordan Innovations

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Re: Announcing FD Explorer 8.8 Diff Kit
« Reply #91 on: September 16, 2013, 08:01:58 PM »
Joel, I'd say if you're running factory brake/fuel lines you'd be fine.  My 10an/8an lines wouldn't make it through the space, but if I clearance the floor a little bit it won't be a big deal (and that part of the floor just forms the back of the bins anyway, no way you'd see it).  Don't change a thing :)


Offline mefarri

Re: Announcing FD Explorer 8.8 Diff Kit
« Reply #92 on: September 16, 2013, 10:51:16 PM »
Hell yea.  Now that looks good.  If I was going to do my usual overkill, I'd gusset between those 2 tubes where it makes a triangle.   

Personally I'll reroute hoses to fit a superior cradle assembly.  Weld in is perfectly fine with me.  Everyone should definitely weld in the speedfab plates too.  No reason not to.  Way to make some progress guys.
"I'm not sure what your intent was because I don't speak "dumbshit", but next time, start your own thread. "

-Jimlab

"Otherwise it looks like something I can build over a weekend, if I spent the first day watching TV."

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Offline dregg100

Re: Announcing FD Explorer 8.8 Diff Kit
« Reply #93 on: September 16, 2013, 11:37:07 PM »
obviously bolt in would be great, but weld in is fine.  That looks GREAT! I was just starting to wonder about you guys...seems as though timing might be about perfect now. 

This might have already been covered, but where can we go to get aftermarket mounts for the ford diff? Mazda mounts are easy.

Offline Jordan Innovations

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Re: Announcing FD Explorer 8.8 Diff Kit
« Reply #94 on: September 16, 2013, 11:45:21 PM »
obviously bolt in would be great, but weld in is fine.  That looks GREAT! I was just starting to wonder about you guys...seems as though timing might be about perfect now. 

This might have already been covered, but where can we go to get aftermarket mounts for the ford diff? Mazda mounts are easy.

They're out there...
http://www.fortesparts.com/product_info.php?products_id=2984
http://rx7.com/store/rx7/SolidDiffMounts.html

Offline wickedrx7

Re: Announcing FD Explorer 8.8 Diff Kit
« Reply #95 on: September 17, 2013, 12:34:16 AM »
Awesome!!!! I would have preferred bolt in but this is a 100% better design!!! It would be nice to have clearance behind the bar to route fuel lines but either way is not a big deal to me. 

Any chance of offering a weld in service, Ill send you my subframe and you weld it in??? :halo:

1993 Touring, 2012 L99, T-56, Ronnin 8.8, Ohlins, Speedhut, Samberg and lots of custom parts
Build Thread - http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=19354.0
Pictures - www.flikr.com/wickedrx7

Offline markfluko

Re: Announcing FD Explorer 8.8 Diff Kit
« Reply #96 on: September 17, 2013, 02:44:38 AM »
I'm fine with the weld-in. The design looks nice, simple, and efficient. Keeps the weight down. Just like we had asked  :yay:

Plenty of exhaust clearance it looks like too...

I vote to leave the tubing how it is, and people running stock fuel lines can bash the floor if they need to.

Since we lose all the comfort of a bolt in-kit, I am going to just ramble off some things I would want included in the instructions to make it as fool proof as possible. If Ronin had already planned these to be in the detailed instructions then don't worry about replying to them here.

  • I am assuming the welding ordered procedure will be in the instructions? (i.e. remove rear cover, attach diff to subframe via rear cover, bolt both front mount brackets on, weld passenger tube, etc...)
  • I seemed to have missed Speedfab pointing out some doubler plates being needed somewhere. Any pictures of this? And where exactly to weld the plates? Just on the front tube where it meets the subframe?
  • Some way to measure that everything is setup/welded in correctly (i.e. with Samberg kit, and T56 trans, drive shaft length should be roughly X)

That's all I can really think of right now. May be interested in a whole weld-in service + powder coating option or something, if it could be done for a reasonable price. Just throwing out some ideas, if I think of anything else I will add it.

I just need to find a diff and order all the other parts ASAP! Anyone have one for sale?

Offline Jordan Innovations

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Re: Announcing FD Explorer 8.8 Diff Kit
« Reply #97 on: September 17, 2013, 03:22:15 AM »
As far as I know, they'll be offering a subframe exchange for people that don't want to weld it in themselves.  The way the tubes are placed and notched, it wouldn't be hard to position it, so I think those wanting to weld in themselves would have a good shot at getting it right.

I couldn't be more pleased.  This is exactly what I wanted to do for my own setup, and I can't wait to put it through it's paces :)

Offline largeorangefont

Re: Announcing FD Explorer 8.8 Diff Kit
« Reply #98 on: September 17, 2013, 02:44:47 PM »
obviously bolt in would be great, but weld in is fine.  That looks GREAT! I was just starting to wonder about you guys...seems as though timing might be about perfect now. 

This might have already been covered, but where can we go to get aftermarket mounts for the ford diff? Mazda mounts are easy.

They're out there...
http://www.fortesparts.com/product_info.php?products_id=2984
http://rx7.com/store/rx7/SolidDiffMounts.html

Those are for Cobra diffs. AFAIK there are no aftermarket  front diff bushings for Explorer diffs (I have done some looking for use on my car). The two are quite a bit different and not interchangeable.
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Offline Jordan Innovations

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Re: Announcing FD Explorer 8.8 Diff Kit
« Reply #99 on: September 17, 2013, 08:01:19 PM »
Doh.  Good point.

Anthony made those front solid inserts that I'll be stealing, but I think the plan is to make more.

Offline frijolee

Re: Announcing FD Explorer 8.8 Diff Kit
« Reply #100 on: September 17, 2013, 09:30:27 PM »
Thanks for the feedback y'all.  Glad everyone likes it.  I'm quite pleased as well.

I'm going to move out getting the plates cut with the cross bar moved about an 1/8" further back.  That keeps our interface points near constant but gives just a touch more clearance for fuel lines.  I'm also planning to make the mount angles symmetric rather than staggered. 

Mark, yes install instructions will be provided.  We'll follow the FC kit round of asking testers for feedback on instructions as well, but we'll include recommendations for how to easiest pull the subframe etc.

I doubt that shipping subframes would be economical vs. paying a mobile welder to visit your garage but let me look into that to confirm.
LS2 stroker FC, Mandeville big brakes, widebody, etc
Build thread:  http://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=1274.0
www.roninspeedworks.com

LargeOrangeFont says: "Joel is right, and I love Joel. But his car sounds like the wrath of God."   ;)

Offline mefarri

Re: Announcing FD Explorer 8.8 Diff Kit
« Reply #101 on: September 17, 2013, 11:35:38 PM »
Yea if you haven't taken taken the subframe out before, it's fucking huge.
"I'm not sure what your intent was because I don't speak "dumbshit", but next time, start your own thread. "

-Jimlab

"Otherwise it looks like something I can build over a weekend, if I spent the first day watching TV."

-Blake motherfucking McBride

Offline Exidous

Re: Announcing FD Explorer 8.8 Diff Kit
« Reply #102 on: September 18, 2013, 06:08:15 PM »
I am 100% in as soon as I can find a damn place to get argon and a tank for my TIG. I am all for bolt in but the simplicity of weld in cannot be denied. I would just really prefer to not have to bash anything.

Looking great guys!!!

Oh ya an finding an explorer diff in Europe.......
94 BB Sleeved gen IV LS7, MS3ProU with TC, RONIN 8.8 and LT's with custom 3.5"single to VAREX muffler.

Offline Skeltic

Re: Announcing FD Explorer 8.8 Diff Kit
« Reply #103 on: September 18, 2013, 06:52:32 PM »
Oh great,,,, now I have to lean to weld.......  :scratch: >:( :(
Thanks Ronin
"You can sleep in your car, but you can't race your house."

Offline orion4096

Re: Announcing FD Explorer 8.8 Diff Kit
« Reply #104 on: September 18, 2013, 07:15:47 PM »
Is it still possible to run the FD diff with samberg mount when the 8.8 mount is welded in?  Or even re-use the 8.8 mount for the FD diff?  I definitely wouldn't run like that all the time but it would be a nice convenience.  No doubt most of us will have a spare FD diff after installing the 8.8 which would make for a reliable backup to swap in for whatever reason.