Bumpsteer kit question

[CKxx]

I am doing a 2J swap and am unfamiliar with the various (MANY) v8 swap kits.  I was wondering which kits lower the steering rack, and by roughly how much?  I am strongly considering a different subframe, but it will require some degree of correction, possibly as much as 2", thus I am looking for a correction kit that will allow me to compensate for that.

I'm already searching around, but none of the advertisements/websites seem to actually give rack drop figures.

Thanks in advance!

[mattster03]

The hinson bumpsteer correction tie rod ends are set for 5/8", so presumably the rack is lowered by this same amount. His correction kit can have another 1/4" added for a total correction of 7/8" and still have enough to fully enage the nylock nut provided with the kit. I might be able to post a video and some pictures regarding this from when I had to do a bunch of work to correct my grannys kit.

I cannot say for sure, but I have heard samberg and hinson have the same rack offset, but sambergs out tie rod ends are locked at 5/8 and c,annot be adjusted for more.

2" would be pretty intense, it would be ideal to find a way to keep that under an inch.

[Jordan Innovations]

The problem with 2" correction is that you don't have the diameter on the inside of the wheels ~ the Hinson setup drags on stock wheels at full (3/4" or so), 2" I'm guessing you'd need 19's.

Besides that, the rack would be extremely low in front.  Ground clearance would be an issue.

[digitalsolo]

Not to mention you're putting a lot of force into a pretty long lever (the bolt) at 2" of spacing.   Personally that's getting a bit much for me.

You -could- do an old Hinson style inner (welded) and an outer.    Personally I'm not a big fan of the inner style ones though.

[Troux]

The hinson bumpsteer correction tie rod ends are set for 5/8", so presumably the rack is lowered by this same amount.

Not quite true. With his "inner" kit, the tie rod ends remain in the stock location, so the insides of the tie rods are raised as much as the rack is lowered to get the tie rods pointed in the stock direction again. With the standard "outer" kit, the tie rod ends must be spaced MORE than the rack was lowered; since the inside of the tie rod is fixed at a lower point, you can't get them pointed back in the stock direction again, so you have to increase the angle on the tie rod to get them pointed to the stock center of rotation.

Technically, the inner kit is the most "correct" way of correcting bump steer, but it does come with its own set of problems, as well. A perfected inner kit would be a blessing to the swapped 7 cause.

Cliffs: Lowering the rack 2" will require more than 2" of spacing on the tie rod ends. Dangerous!

[fd3sls3]

Also worth noting:.. hinsons inner bump steer kit caused a "momet of force radially" on the rack...causing the rack to attempt to "rotatr" under steering forces.. also to be noted...with hinson inboard kit...you lose outermost turning radius...lock to lock is normally 2.9 revolutions...with kit is now limited to 2.6 revolutions

[CKxx]

Thanks guys.  I will talk to the subframe fabricator about all this.  I may opt to do less of a drop and use an aftermarket hood, or just continue using the Tech2 subframe I already own.

I was hoping to ditch the Tech2 kit and get a custom subframe made, but I hadn't realized what was involved in correcting the rack geometry.  I may see if I can do something with the oil pan to get away with a 2" over-all drop on the motor and only 1" of the rack itself.  Or, maybe a 1" drop of the motor and an aftermarket hood (such as a cowl, or scoot) that isn't so damn ugly like the Tech2.

...or I might just buy an SC300 or S14. 

[Troux]

Also worth noting:.. hinsons inner bump steer kit caused a "momet of force radially" on the rack...causing the rack to attempt to "rotatr" under steering forces.. also to be noted...with hinson inboard kit...you lose outermost turning radius...lock to lock is normally 2.9 revolutions...with kit is now limited to 2.6 revolutions

I can't understand how either of these could possibly happen.
A) the travel of the rack dictates how much angle you get, and that isn't reduced.
B) rotating the rack would require a FWD/AFT force acting on the tie rods, and surely that would just make the tie rods pivot on the ball joint.

Correct me where I'm wrong.

[fd3sls3]

A:  the ratio is reduced because the 90 deg inboard bumpsteer block hits the side of the rack (drivers side)....thus losing fulltravel potential ...(this is with hinsons inboard kit)...normally its 2.9 turns....but is reduced to 2.6 turns)

B:...The old site had a video depicting the problem...because the inner tie rod is raised up..the force from the outer tie rod will force the rack into rotation....hard to write out... the video would answer your ?s

[fd3sls3]

The inner tie rod end fits in to the rack (drivers side)...but the inboard bumpsteer block is larger...and hits on the aluminum body of the rack.....hope that makes sense

[Cam_Ron]

I currently have an FC with a 2j and have put a 2j into a friends FD. The fc's hood closes with no mod to the stock subframe, the FD also retained the stock subframe but required a cut in the hood. Both had factory ground clearance. In my opinion, bump steer correction kits don't fix the problem correctly or completely  and as such I'll never use one.

[Troux]

A:  the ratio is reduced because the 90 deg inboard bumpsteer block hits the side of the rack (drivers side)....thus losing fulltravel potential ...(this is with hinsons inboard kit)...normally its 2.9 turns....but is reduced to 2.6 turns)

B:...The old site had a video depicting the problem...because the inner tie rod is raised up..the force from the outer tie rod will force the rack into rotation....hard to write out... the video would answer your ?s

On my kit, the block hits the side of the rack housing, but no different than a tie rod would, as the block and a tie rod both fit flush against the sides of the inner rack. I see how this could limit the travel if it somehow sat further inside, though. I'll measure the turns, though.

I remember seeing the video, but it just seems to me like that must have been something else that he was doing to cause it to happen. Like I said, I don't see why it wouldn't just rotate on the ball joint first. Has anyone else reported this problem since?

[fd3sls3]

On my drivers side inner tie rod...  the factory one went inside the casting on the rack...whereas the block hits the outside... count youts lock to lock....stock should be 2.9 revolutions ..


I know the old site had a short video documentation of this....a moment is created because the block raises the tie rod above centerline...and its not parallel...but at a slight angle rearward (if memory serves me correct)...  this causes the rack to "rotate" under load....the only thing preventing this from rotating is ghe mating gear....which the concern was...would wear over time.


I never had a problem with mine..just hated losing turning abilities ....   i believe hinson has also discontinued it and runs outboard now

[CKxx]

I currently have an FC with a 2j and have put a 2j into a friends FD. The fc's hood closes with no mod to the stock subframe, the FD also retained the stock subframe but required a cut in the hood. Both had factory ground clearance. In my opinion, bump steer correction kits don't fix the problem correctly or completely  and as such I'll never use one.

Do you have any pictures of this FD?  Based on my own experience with my 2J/FD I don't see how that is possible.

[digitalsolo]

In my opinion, bump steer correction kits don't fix the problem correctly or completely  and as such I'll never use one.

Measuring bump steer with a properly designed kit would tend to differ with your opinion.